53 replies to this topic

[Felio]

5 more tons, JJ, hardpoints of all three weapon types in every mech...

[Redshift2k5]

It's hard not to reccomend a Shadowhawk.

[Victor Morson]

Absolutely.

If you are looking to get into mediums, start with the Shadow Hawk. In fact, just start with the Shadow Hawk in general. There's a bunch of great variants.

[Joey Tankblaster]

The Hawk has replaced (or made obsolete) every other medium...

[Ziogualty]

+1 to all the replies till now!


GO for the ShadowHawk!

[Charons Little Helper]

I think that the Shadowhawk has definitely replaced the Centurian since their hardpoints are similar. The hunchback runs different builds. (plus runs better with a standard engine in my opinion - making it cheaper for a newbie) I'd reccomend either to a newbie.

[juxstapo]

Absolutely. There was a time when my go-to recommended starter mech was the HBK-4SP, but no more. The vast number of available playstyles means the Shawk will go with you no matter which direction you mature in, and stay viable well into competitive play.

[TercieI]

juxstapo, on 05 December 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Absolutely. There was a time when my go-to recommended starter mech was the HBK-4SP, but no more. The vast number of available playstyles means the Shawk will go with you no matter which direction you mature in, and stay viable well into competitive play.

+1 on all of this, but versatility especially is a huge selling point for a "starter chassis" IMO.

[Bront]

Shadowhawk 5M is the best starter mech right now. For 8 million, you get a perfectly serviceable build almost immediately (DHS, Endo, XL, Reasonable weapons), an XL engine you can use in the other Shadowhawks (Sure, I prefer an XL300, and an XL280 is better than the 275, but we're talking about starting out fresh), and once you collect some more money, it has plenty of viable options for loadouts.

Hunchies still end up being cheaper, but the Shadowhawks are probably better mechs for new players (As fast or faster, more armor, no super-vulnerable hunch, JJs). You can do all kinds of fun things with a shadowhawk (I've got 3 builds where they don't feel like the same mech), and from there a new pilot can move towards another chasis that focuses more on the style they like to play.

Hunchies still aren't bad, but I don't think I'd ever recommend a Cent anymore.

[Dan Nashe]

I think so because jump jets.
The cents are still good (they move faster) and tough, but shadowhawk is an equally good mech and you can put jump jets on it, which means you can try out more playstyles.

Also: easy to ai m an ac coming out of your head instead of arm.
Problem is the lack of energy hard points.
If they put in a hero with 3 energy slots and 1 ballistic, I will drool.
Also, you can't carry as many srms (only 4 no artemis head).
But missiles suck right now.

So I don't think cents or 4sps or blackjacks are Bad choices. Esp if you want 3-5 lasers.

[Blurry]

It is a good mech but vision can be impaired a bit due to the cabin and slightly claustrophobic.

Beyond that they are - decent went with them after my hunch 1st mech I had. I do like mediums fast enough can take a couple shots and deal a bit of damage.

[Victor Morson]

Bront, on 05 December 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Shadowhawk 5M is the best starter mech right now.

I'd recommend the 2D2 for the first model because it's a bit cheaper, can run the meta configurations well, and has some more options.

5M is probably rivaling 2D2 for the best model, and you need one anyway, so this is more a general suggestion than anything.

Blurry, on 05 December 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

It is a good mech but vision can be impaired a bit due to the cabin and slightly claustrophobic.

On the upside all your torso shots go dead-center to your crosshair and never hit terrain, so it's a price worth paying.

[Will9761]

I imagine so, due to its variants and flexibility, I think it surpasses the HBK.

[juxstapo]

Subjectively, I like my Blackjacks more due to emotional attachment. I strongly feel the BJ-1 does the AC/20 better (arm mounts yo). I like the Jack's cockpit view muuuuuch better and the entire mech offers a smaller profile. (It's bizarre, but I find I perform better in a chassis if I like the way the inside looks and the field of view offered by the canopy. Go figure.

Now, even though the Shawk presumably has the versatility thing buttoned up. Although (even though it's been touted as "not meta"), we'll have to see if the Griffen can swoop in and steal the energy weapon spotlight.

[Victor Morson]

AC/20 Blackjacks aren't bad at all. I think they take more talent to use being lighter and I wouldn't recommend them to a newbie, but they have a legitimate niche and are a welcomed option for any DC. So yeah, BJs are nice for what they are.

[Bront]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

I'd recommend the 2D2 for the first model because it's a bit cheaper, can run the meta configurations well, and has some more options.

5M is probably rivaling 2D2 for the best model, and you need one anyway, so this is more a general suggestion than anything.

5M comes stock with a 275XL, DHS, and Endo, so it's complete from purchase, which is why it's a great starter mech (no need to grind cbills in a sub-par mech to get most of the needed upgrades). Which has better hardpoints is debatable and some personal preference. The 2D2 makes the best light hunters, while the 5M/2H make better balistic builds.

[The Basilisk]

I think not.
The SHawk is just new thats all.
And (whats very very importent) the Shadow Hawk is a very classic and well known Mech from the Battletech novels.
Greyson Death Carlyle drove a Shadow Hawk for example, one of the most iconic figures from Battletech and therefore its a popular chassis.
So far nearly all chassis are usable and got their up and downsides.

[Koniving]

Slightly off topic; it's about shadowhawk and what Basilisk said.

I know this is weird to say, but I'm thinking that the Wolverine and Griffin could have something to offer depending on how the missile tubes on them work.

Example, if the Griffin can really get high numbers of tubes it'll trump the Shadowhawk in LRM potential. But if the Griffin gets identical tubes, then it'll rely entirely on potential pinpoint damage of its energy weapons.

The Wolverine on the other hand, if it winds up with better tubes (if the Griffin has identical tubes to the SH), that would make the Griffin dead on arrival.

Another thing of note is how missiles attach. If the pods are too big, it won't be worth using them. Most of the Shadowhawk's pods mount on the chest without increasing the side torso size. However, the missile box for the head launcher always increases the Center Torso size to be easier to hit.
So in comparison, if the Griffin or Wolverine follow this suit of chest mounted launchers without protrusions, we some good, sturdy mechs, that unfortunately may cause some older ones to go extinct completely. If they attach on shoulders or otherwise protrude, it then depends on the shapes whether or not they will be suitable for certain roles.

From what I've seen of the announced hardpoints, the most PPCs either Griffin or Wolverine could carry is 3, with 2 on most chassis. The Ballistic Wolverine cannot carry a UAC/5 + AC/5 combination, but can carry 2 AC/5s based on slots. (Both Griffin and Wolverine have hands, and thus, hand actuators. A mech cannot have a hand actuator without a lower arm actuator).

Almost all of the Wolverine (minus the 'head') and Griffin (minus a shoulder) energy hardpoints are on the arms with impressive arm range ratings. This means a lot more combat manueverability in terms of aim. It also means unparalleled ability to track and lock on targets. (The stated vertical range on Wolverine arms is the highest I've ever seen on a mech). The Griffin's cockpit if it remains the same as on the concept art should have incredible visibility.

Source thus far.

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TL;DR
The Shadowhawk right now is great for its ballistics and has a lot of missile hardpoints to back it up, thus making it quite possibly the new most common 'first mech' to use in the Medium range.

However, it has potential competition coming in. Unlike the Shadowhawk, the Wolverine and Griffin have superior arm movement and potentially better peripheral vision with side windows that is completely un-obscured by large cannons. Arm movement is important for both lock-on weapons and arm-based weapons.

Certain variants are listed to have superior jumping potential to satisfy high-ground needs (for LRM boats and sharp-shooters) as well as mostly arm-mounted weapons (also key for sharp shooters; important for roof top, hill top, and crane top positions and battles. Grants the ability to find places to hit a Shadowhawk that the Shadowhawk cannot fight back from).

TL;DR, TL;DR Still!

Wolverine might wipe the floor with the Shadowhawk. Griffin has more on-paper potential than initially expected but wait and see.

[Buckminster]

I've been playing my 2H stock themed (I've upgraded the SRM2 to a Streak, and upgraded the AC5 to a UAC5), and I've really enjoyed it. It's not 'meta' or anything like that, but is a fun jack of all trades build.

It's also made me very happy to have picked up the Saber package. I initially passed on it, figuring I didn't need more 55 ton mediums, but I've been thoroughly enjoying my stock-esque builds. I figure that if I keep my Griffin and Wolverine in the same style, I'll have a nice collection to play with.

[Victor Morson]

Bront, on 08 December 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

5M comes stock with a 275XL, DHS, and Endo, so it's complete from purchase, which is why it's a great starter mech (no need to grind cbills in a sub-par mech to get most of the needed upgrades). Which has better hardpoints is debatable and some personal preference. The 2D2 makes the best light hunters, while the 5M/2H make better balistic builds.

Oh yeah, for sure the 5M is a solid bet for everything it comes with. I was thinking that you can get a 2D2 running more than fine with a Standard engine, and even run an AC/20 + Streak setup on it if you'd like to go ballistics with the STD. Likewise it can also get setup for the 2 AC/5 + 1 PPC setup.

3 Streak/2 2 AC/5 is my current favorite pug build for the 5J, and it's likely it might work out well in low tonnage drops too. I've been meaning to try it competitively. So even the 5J isn't a bad 'mech by any means.

All around OP no matter which Shadow Hawk you buy, you're going to get a good 'mech.