33 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

The limit of ''only two LLs before ghost heat'' was considered silly by most of us from the moment ghost heat was first implemented.

In a battle, even in the hands of good pilots, beam duration means that lasers will generally splash some of their damage across components.

So, applying the same ~20 point alpha limit to large lasers as applies to the ~20 point pinpoint of PPCs is misguided.

Note that with medium lasers you can do an alpha of 30 before ghost heat applies. 3 LLs (27 points) should be acceptable before ghost heat applies.

[OneEyed Jack]

Better yet, they need to just remove it, completely. It hardly matters on ML, it's bass-ackwards on ACs, and if anyone wants to take more than 2 PPCs since the nerf, LET THEM! 15 heat on ERPPC or 10 heat and 90m min range on PPC and both at slower speed? I say more power to anybody that wants to boat that.

"But, but, but Ja-aaaack! Heat doesn't mean anything if they can just hide behind a hill!"

Bull-puckey! It means they can't fire fast enough to suppress anyone with the cajones to go over the hill and kill them, nor can they use them to defend themselves very well at short range when you do.

Basically, GH accomplishes nothing at this point except to punish weapons that don't need to be punished, LLs and missiles (both sorts).

[Mr 144]

I miss by "overpowered" 5xLL CTF-1X 340XL...sigh...

[Bilbo]

Solis Obscuri, on 06 December 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

What I'm still trying to figure out is how LLas stack with MLas. It's been stated that they do, but what's unclear is if the MLas or the LLas begin to generate the heat penalty...

LL and LPL stack. You are fine with 2 LL or LPL coupled with up to 6 Mediums of your choice on a single trigger pull. For the heat penalty the higher heat weapon is used to determine the penalty.

[Almond Brown]

Amsro, on 05 December 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

I still spam 3 Large Lasers, screw Ghost Heat!

LOL! That is what HS's are for. And a small dash of trigger finger constraint.

Edited by Almond Brown, 06 December 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Training Instructor, on 06 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Limiting the Large lasers to only fire two at once sort of screwed up several builds I used to love that had 3-4 large lasers.

For the ranged Energy weapons, apparently a 30 pin point Alpha seems the barrier. Which then begs the question. Why set it at 18 on the LL and not to 27? Least then they could compete better with the Ballista's.

P.S. Perhaps their in game use prior to GH was more "prevalent" than the Dev thought was a good thing for a 9 pt weapon with good range????

[Almond Brown]

Damia Savon, on 06 December 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Ghost heat really has to go or be reduced or lasers. I understand wanting to limit boating but when my Jag can mount three AC5s and pound for most of a match without any heat build up then something is wrong.

Multiple lasers already generate a ton of heat.. no need to add more upon that.

That is a very simplistic look at the comparison.

3 x AC5 - 24T, 12 slots and ammo, 15 damage, 1 ton provides 10 (alpha) trigger pulls.

vs

3 erLL - 15T, 6 slots, unlimited ammo, 27 damage. Range is equivalent.

P.S. Yes the laser are DoT based but given equal range and as fight speed increases, the AC5 shooters ability to put all damage on, or in, the same place decreases as well. A raking Alpha LLaser beam still does damage (albeit reduced) whereas a missed AC15 Alpha does zero damage.

P.S.S. Yes, fights tend to end up at ranges that favor the AC15 Ballistic, but that is not inherently a game issue and it doesn't mean all fights always end up devolving that way.

[Solis Obscuri]

Bilbo, on 06 December 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

LL and LPL stack. You are fine with 2 LL or LPL coupled with up to 6 Mediums of your choice on a single trigger pull. For the heat penalty the higher heat weapon is used to determine the penalty.

Maybe I misread the original post on Ghost Heat. The biggest problem I've found with it isn't how it works, it's trying to figure out exactly where it applies and how. Awfully confusing to throw at new players.

[OznerpaG]

i don't consider an extra 3.5 heat much of a deterrent from firing 3 LLas at once if you really wanted to. it's unfortunate, but not a deal breaker

[stjobe]

Solis Obscuri, on 07 December 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Maybe I misread the original post on Ghost Heat. The biggest problem I've found with it isn't how it works, it's trying to figure out exactly where it applies and how. Awfully confusing to throw at new players.

Just point them at smurfy: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale.

But yeah, that should be in-game. Perhaps we'll see it in the fabled UI2.0 whenever that arrives.

[Watchit]

Large Laser's need a buff, 2 before ghost heat doesn't make sense when compared to PPC's, even 3 LPL's have a long enough beam duration and are hot enough that linking 3 together wouldn't be game breaking.

[Khobai]

Quote

Ghost heat really has to go or be reduced or lasers. I understand wanting to limit boating but when my Jag can mount three AC5s and pound for most of a match without any heat build up then something is wrong.

Pretty much. Whats the point of having ghost heat prevent boating if the most abused boated weapon: AC/5s arnt penalized by it? It doesnt make any sense. If ghost heat isnt going to shut down boating 3-4 AC/5s you might as well just not have ghost heat at all.

[Watchit]

Khobai, on 18 February 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Pretty much. Whats the point of having ghost heat prevent boating if the most abused boated weapon: AC/5s arnt penalized by it? It doesnt make any sense. If ghost heat isnt going to shut down boating 3-4 AC/5s you might as well just not have ghost heat at all.

well, I would venture to say that the reason AC/5's are boated so much is because they don't have a heat penalty. Boating AC/5's came out because of ghost heat. Though, yes, now that they're becoming a problem, I could see PGI penalizing AC/5's as well.

[Noesis]

Almond Brown, on 06 December 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

That is a very simplistic look at the comparison.

3 x AC5 - 24T, 12 slots and ammo, 15 damage, 1 ton provides 10 (alpha) trigger pulls.

vs

3 erLL - 15T, 6 slots, unlimited ammo, 27 damage. Range is equivalent.

P.S. Yes the laser are DoT based but given equal range and as fight speed increases, the AC5 shooters ability to put all damage on, or in, the same place decreases as well. A raking Alpha LLaser beam still does damage (albeit reduced) whereas a missed AC15 Alpha does zero damage.

P.S.S. Yes, fights tend to end up at ranges that favor the AC15 Ballistic, but that is not inherently a game issue and it doesn't mean all fights always end up devolving that way.

Your ignoring rate of fire with applied DPS for those weapons:

DPS of 3 AC5 = 10, DPS of 3 ERLL = 6.36 (before considering beam spread or aiming)

And the ERLL will need a lot of heat management as part of its balancing factors for use and as per build needs with HS to operate well and still will not be as sustainable as the AC5 arrangement. So it isn't useful to complain about tonnage being a problem for these weapons when from a point of effectiveness they do better and these are the appropriate balancing factors for the differences between them. You also forgot to include shake effects with the ballistic hits.