18 replies to this topic

[Asgeir]

Hey guys...I had an idea for clan balance that may make the idea of slightly broken clan tech still fit, BUT keep the flavour alive.

On the clan side of a future drop, program in firing locks so the first target fired on by a clan mech is the only target they can fire on until defeated. This would also mean that it would lock you out from firing on someone elses target. It keeps the clan honour code intact.

If the Inner Sphere folks fight honourably, then the clans are bound to only engage a single target at a time. However, if the Inner Spherites break firing discipline, all the clan mechs lose the firing lock and are free to engage as few or as many targets as they please, and engage in 'dishonourable' mass fire engagements.

If this is done, we keep the flavour, and we keep individual players from breaking the game due to the increased damage of clan tech.

Thoughts?

[tucsonspeed6]

You forget that clanners are allowed to take on more than one target. A single clan pilot can bid to take on an entire lance by themselves. Also zellbrigen is interpreted differently between clans, but some general rules can be applied.

An idea I had in the past is similar to yours with a few differences: all enemies are considered open at the beginning of a match. Once fired on for the first time, an enemy becomes flagged as your target. Other clanners would be able to see which enemies are flagged by others and themselves similarly to how IS pilots can see if an enemy is being targeted or tagged.

Now here's the interesting bit: ww give clanners an honor based currency. The typical clanners aren't going to be mercs who buy mechs off of the black market. I mean, the old guys aren't shelling out their life savings to hop into a hunchback IIc. It's assigned to them based on their honor and status. It may not be a perfect representation of the clans, but it's better than the cbill/ black market economy we have for the IS.

So during a match, a clan pilot racks up honor by getting kills. Efficient CT and headshot kills are rewarded more, legging is barely rewarded at all. You can also be penalized for breaking zellbrigen: shoot another persons target and you lose an amount of honor relative to the damage done. Lose your target lock or LOS and you get penalized more.

So imagine you are a clanner who calls your targets, but they keep ducking behind cover causing you to lose honor. Then other guys' targets start engaging you. If you fire back, you lose honor. All of this would rightfully **** you off, and you'd start calling them mean clan curse words like 'surrat' or whatever they say. When you finish the match with a win, you've been penalized enough that it still feels like a loss.

I think it might not be very fair, but it would definitely make the pilot feel like a clanner, and it wouldn't look as glamorous anymore to the obnoxious youths who will inevitably see joining a clan as 'easy mode'. And really, that's what I want to avoid the most. It would be like sacrilege to have clanners playing a style identical to IS pilots. If nothing else, a clan pilot should at least be incentivized to play in a clan style. Hopefully PGI recognizes this need.

[CyclonerM]

tucsonspeed6, on 06 December 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

and headshot kills are rewarded more,

A Clan warrior would show no skill getting a headshot shooting a Catapult's head at point blank range with two UAC/20, quiaff?

I hope they will at least use Honor as currency for Clan pilots. If nothing, it would reflect the fact that Clan MechWarriors do not "buy" their 'Mechs which are instead assigned to them by the Clan.

[Krystof Morva]

My thoughts on this topic as a huge fan of the genre and the fiction. Zellbrigen could easily be enforced by score.

Flag a target by shooting it...if 2 players hit within the same 2-3 second window...flag goes to he one who hit it the hardest.

Assists are penalties, not bonuses, however clan pilots should get a larger score for kills since there is no "assist" score.

If the clan pilots mech is downed, the flag clears and they can be shot at again by other clan pilots.

If you want clan pilots to behave like clan pilots, make the score reflect clan tactical doctrine and fire discipline. Playing as a clan pilot like this will not be a cake walk and requires a different style of play. Plenty of players will let another clan pilot go down rather than receive assist penalties as clanners believe that if they lost the duel with their flagged target, that the inner sphere pilot deserved to win and is the superior pilot.

[Krystof Morva]

Assists could be opened up but only if the IS pilot fires on that clan mech. So a clan pilot may get "assist" points for a mech flagged by another but only if the IS pilot fires on him and and does say more than 10 points of damage.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Zellbrigen lasts less than a year in the novels. It is largely a moot issue regardless since it would eventually go away. So, what then?

[NocturnalBeast]

Inner sphere pilots will have salvaged clan mechs from day one and I highly doubt that 1 on 1 combat would be enforced in anything other than private matches.

[pbiggz]

There is no efficient way to enforce zellbrigen, and I say this as a designer.

Edited by pbiggz, 19 December 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[RoadblockXL]

I could see them doing little things to encourage zellbrigen style fighting; such as clan LRMs lacking indirect-fire capability or giving a bonus for killing a mech and being the only person to apply damage to it. I doubt they will penalize people for assists though.

[Sigurd Wolf]

Very unlikely any of the IS groups are going to let us have a fair Zelbrigen style fight, better off to adapt to their tactics and fight them the way they would... Focus fire anyone?

Edited by Imperium45, 19 December 2013 - 09:02 PM.

[Outlaw]

The way its being thrown around in here is making me go WTF. Yes the Clans abided by Zellbringen when the enemy would abide by it as well, kind of why the clans who hit the Draconis Combine respected them so much. But forcing players into it even after the enemy has violated it is a very bad idea gameplay wise as it gives the IS a massive advantage on top of the already gimped clan mechs we will be getting.

[Antagonist]

Er...isn't zellbrigen voided if your enemies don't honor it?

[Alex Warden]

Zellbrigen... well... Zellbrigen is a protocol that can be practice in Clan vs Clan battles... as for the invading Clans, they gave it up after the 1st or second wave and started just "rofl-stomping" the spheroids

and that´s what´s gotta be avoided... as much as i love the lore and all, for gameplays sake i like the way PGI goes. Giving clans some quirks and special flavour but neither side being overpowered...

although the "rough design scetches" they showed us need some serious work done, the general direction is the best way i see for a pvp game like this... you can´t balance what can´t be balanced unless you seriously rework the mechanics...

another way would be - in my eyes at least - to not allow any customization at all. so have let´s say 3 setups (from the TRO´s ) and that´s it

you will have superior weapons (clans) vs. minmaxed chassis (IS) and that´s it... boring as hell, if you ask me

Edited by Alex Warden, 20 December 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 06 December 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

A Clan warrior would show no skill getting a headshot shooting a Catapult's head at point blank range with two UAC/20, quiaff?

I hope they will at least use Honor as currency for Clan pilots. If nothing, it would reflect the fact that Clan MechWarriors do not "buy" their 'Mechs which are instead assigned to them by the Clan.

Or won in a trial of possession.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 December 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Or won in a trial of possession.

Correct. As i already wrote in another thread.. I badly want a "Trial of Possession" game mode for CW, at least for Clan vs Clan battles
Btw, with private lobbies we could organize some good skirmishes more easily and with less players needed, like Star vs Star.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Well we at least pull off successful Trials of Position lol.

[CyclonerM]

Lukoi, on 20 December 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Well we at least pull off successful Trials of Position lol.

We do as well but in a Clan vs Clan gamemode Zellbrigen may be implemented

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 20 December 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

We do as well but in a Clan vs Clan gamemode Zellbrigen may be implemented

Well as I can see it Zellbrigen isn't going to be to important anyway. We are closing on the end of the invasion. Clans were less and less held to their strict code of conduct. Now come Huntress We Spheroids should step up and follow the rules of Clan engagement. I want to see how well we can really do Fighting Clans on equal footing once that front is reached.

Clanners do need to learn the quirks of their rides before that battle hits. We have been fighting in out Rides for a year or more, you deserve time to shake out the bugs of your equipment too.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 December 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 December 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Well as I can see it Zellbrigen isn't going to be to important anyway. We are closing on the end of the invasion. Clans were less and less held to their strict code of conduct. Now come Huntress We Spheroids should step up and follow the rules of Clan engagement. I want to see how well we can really do Fighting Clans on equal footing once that front is reached.

Clanners do need to learn the quirks of their rides before that battle hits. We have been fighting in out Rides for a year or more, you deserve time to shake out the bugs of your equipment too.

I seriosly doubt they will start the invasion from 3052..