29 replies to this topic

[Garrond]

I'm looking for a Mech being a viable choice for competitive play and being capable to go faster than 90 KPH at high tonnage (12 man conquest). There are Mechs being perfectly suited for this role but unluckily I don't own any of those. I'm stuck with dragons. *
So let's focus on that.

Since it's release the dragon has always been an inferior chassis. Big CT and small LT/RT made it relatively safe to use an XL with this mech, but then again the CT is so huge that you get cored almost instantly when in a brawl or when being attacked by snipers. Even when twisting your torso to the side, the CT could be hit.

But just recently (one or two patches ago) the dragon's hitboxes got changed. Do you think it's still safe to use an XL? Is the CT still a damage magnet? Or would you now consider piloting a dragon with an Xl320 as a fast capper in a competitive 12 man conquest match not to be foolish any more?

Edited by Garrond, 07 December 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[Hammerhai]

A very big question. Will dust off my Flame and see what I can tell you as a normal Heavy Driver. All the same I wonder if the DRG can hold up in a cheese game. I think it would be punching above its' weightclass in 12 mans.

What I can tell you right now is that I drive the Flame as a Grand DRG (ER PPC, 2LL, LRM10), and found it to be a surprisingly good loadout as an off capper on conquest. Given that it is stock tabletop, amazing that it should work as well as it does.. But this was before any HitBox Change.

[White Bear 84]

Apparently some improvement.. ..don't see the dragon as a dog though, have some of my best KDR's in the dragons and that's running an XL as well!

[Hammerhai]

One tip which is fun and nasty is to run a DRG lance kitted for capping. Now that WILL raise some hackles.

Other thread on DRG hitboxes (Verrue, see in this forum) seems undecided as to whether there was a big difference with the new hitboxes. So I would go with "business as usual" as a verdict until I can test.

[NRP]

Competitive play? No. No way.

The Dragon might be a bit better, but nothing really significant. If you couldn't survive in a Dragon before, you won't be able to now either.

Edited by NRP, 07 December 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

NRP, on 07 December 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Competitive play? No. No way.

The Dragon might be a bit better, but nothing really significant. If you couldn't survive in a Dragon before, you won't be able to now either.

I'm a very big fan of the Dragon. One of the Mechs I pilot the absolute most. As much as I love it however, still not a 12-man top tier Mech unless in the hands of someone like MisterBlastman and even then, he's taking a less than optimal Mech simply because he's personally good in it. He's better in something like a Victor, HGN, BJ simply by definition.

[Victor Morson]

Nail on the head from the last few posts.

Dragon is still a bad 'mech. It's hard point layout is a big part of it, really.

[Garrond]

Thanks for your answers everyone! It's sad to hear but to be honest exactly what I expected.
/thread

[Victor Morson]

Garrond, on 07 December 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Thanks for your answers everyone! It's sad to hear but to be honest exactly what I expected.
/thread

One last thing - if you want all the fun and none of the downsides out of a Dragon, buy a Shadow Hawk.

Fills the same niche for 5 tons less, and does it well.

[Bront]

The physical size of the mech is part of the problem. Wide mechs are easy targets at long range, and it's wide CT means you can hit it from almost any angle. Even with the CT shift, it won't solve that issue much.

The Thunderbolt has a similar issue with being wide, but it's thinner on the side, has better shield arms, and a better torso profile, so while it's vulnerable at longer ranges, it can spread damage better by twisting, and brawls pretty well. Sadly, it's not as fast as you're looking for.

Keep in mind, competitive is all about what mech you're good in untill you're getting to the top tiers where it doesn't matter. I've seen people use Awesomes competitively that did pretty well, but I wouldn't call it higher level competitive play.

Other options for what you want would be Victors (80KPH is reachable without too much of a problem with an XL) or Shadowhawks (and the other 55 ton mechs to a lesser extent). There really isn't a very good fast heavy out there (Quickdraws have other issues, and the Jester is really the only other really fast heavy)

[Modo44]

Victor Morson, on 07 December 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

One last thing - if you want all the fun and none of the downsides out of a Dragon, buy a Shadow Hawk.

Just be aware that you will get less firepower, and be legged in every other match.

[zudukai]

Victor Morson, on 07 December 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

One last thing - if you want all the fun and none of the downsides out of a Dragon, buy a Shadow Hawk.

Fills the same niche for 5 tons less, and does it well.

yeah, but if you really want a 90kph heavy, the quickdraw or the jester is your best bet. Shawk is cheaper though.

Edited by zudukai, 10 December 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Dragon still needs a tummy tuck to be attractive, seriously that beer gut should have been delt with long time ago.



Might just be the artists take on the angle but the CT gut looks like it lines up with the groin perfectly while we have this.

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 08 December 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[Bront]

Modo44, on 08 December 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Just be aware that you will get less firepower, and be legged in every other match.

I've been legged once in my shadowhawks (~80 matches). Don't dump your leg armor, and it won't happen that often.

[Modo44]

Bront, on 08 December 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

I've been legged once in my shadowhawks (~80 matches). Don't dump your leg armor, and it won't happen that often.

My point exactly. You can shave off more from a Dragon or Hunchie, and still not get legged. That ton is nice to have.

[Fang01]

The only effective change I've noticed from the tweaks is that more potential CT dmg is now transferred to the legs because of the "thong" adjustment. Assuming you run a generous amount of leg armor and keep your twist up its still very survivable.

[Kjudoon]

as much as I tried to like the DRG when I had one, it is still the 1973 Lincoln Continental Mark IV of the mwo. The hood is still too long from the top making it highly missile susceptible. The SDH is better with 5 less tons and optional JJs.

[Flying Judgement]

dragon better?????
its a lot easyer to kill it its XL pops so easyly i killing them in no time and dieing them loseing my XL
before this pach i lost one or 2 arm first than my ct or XL now
the firs thing is my XL lol i never imagined 5 % matters so much
i try to adjust my play style but i havent made 600-900 damage in it since the change rather 400-250

so no
a good sniper just pop ur XL with 2 shot...

[Shade4x]

Garrond, on 07 December 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Since it's release the dragon has always been an inferior chassis. Big CT and small LT/RT made it relatively safe to use an XL with this mech, but then again the CT is so huge that you get cored almost instantly when in a brawl or when being attacked by snipers. Even when twisting your torso to the side, the CT could be hit.

Actually it use to be the best flanking mech in the game. That however was when assults all went 68 kph, and even mediums really didn't get past 90 kph. This was also when it was 8v8 and you could run 2 dragons in fast from the side and obliterate a team.

The hit box change was comparable to the spiders. Unless your fairly skilled you won't even notice the changes. It was a minor change, and doesn't make the mech suddenly playable, just slightly increased survivability.

A word of advice: The spawn system is going to force some changes in the current meta game. Don't listen to anyone's advice on the meta game for atleast a week or two, as most the players in this game simply copy and paste meta builds and tactics. Your most likely going to get the previous version of the meta-game.

[SchwarzerPeter]

Played a bit in my Dragons yesterday, the change isn't that big. You still have a enormous CT and small sides. The damage spread a little better now, mostly to the legs. So don't drop that much leg armor. Otherwise its still the same mech with the same flaws.

Biggest plus of the Dragon is the extremely high mounted side torso hard point, btw.

Edited by SchwarzerPeter, 10 December 2013 - 05:47 AM.