106 replies to this topic

[Saber1]

I go full boat. Purely PUGs. Not trolling either. BAP + 2xLRM20s + Artemis. I go 61kph with my engine in each of my Catapults and have a boatload of ammo. I average 500-700 damage (sometimes 1000) and ADORE LRMs.

For those getting cored, you need to start listening to all those who are saying you need to be able to go around 70kph in a LRM boat.

You need to flank. Most of my damage comes from going "oh, you're hiding behind cover? That's fine, I'll go around."

Stick close to pug mates, odds are you aren't the only one with a BAP as you flank. What's nice about LRMs is they'll keep someone's head down. Sure they'll get a volley off at someone, and the closer you are to pug mates and the more you hug behind them, the better chance that the snipers won't be hitting you. Since I pilot a mech with perhaps the largest head hitbox, this is a reality I'm always fearing.

As you return fire, the snipers duck behind cover, as you have so elegantly complained in this entire thread. Congrats, that's an opportunity. You buy time for your puggies to move into cover and avoid the coring snipers. You also buy time to flank.

As you near the enemy's force, your real potential comes to bear. The magic range is 250-325m, you're close to your lance, they feel the confidence of another (typically heavy) mech to keep pushing and the moment the enemy decides to start brawling, you drop unstoppable hell on them. Close quarters (250m'ish) leaves VERY LITTLE ROOM FOR AMS. ECM either stops to PPC fire, fails because a BAP cancels it, is counter-jammed by friendly ECM, someone is TAGing, or it's simply destroyed/runs away in the brawl. Which typically leaves you to continue dropping hell.

As said, with little room for AMS to save anyone (not to mention split trying to stop streaks/other friendly missile fire) and ECM unreliable, you have the edge. Sure your LRMs are NOT an equivalent alpha to PPCs/Guasses/Autocannons but the moment mechs start getting entire arsenals dropped on them, each of those weapons become harder to hit with, and you risk exposing damaged sides of your mech further to the enemy each time you try to crack off a shot. There's only so much cover you can hide behind and if I can get you to keep running for cover that means you are NOT fighting with your friends. Unlike mine who are getting the chance to brawl.

There's a reason LRMs are supportive fire.

Learn to use them. Learn to abuse them. And stop sounding like the lot of you are crying for no-skill I-WIN button. LRMs aren't that and if they get buffed in any way, expect me to be one of those who abuse them to the point this entire game will turn into LRMs Online.

Don't be so quick to consider the people that DO know how to use them.

You probably just suck (as in how you're trying to use them). Or the mech you're trying to put them on, sucks. The good news is either of those things are customizable.

Edited by Saber1, 15 December 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[Temper Tantrum]

Jun Watarase, on 07 December 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Ok i'm keeping a log of my LRM experiments.

1. Canyon, unable to fire LRMs due to ECM.

2. River city, unable to fire LRMs due to ECM.

3. Alpine, killed a lone locust caught in the open with zero cover. When the rest of the enemy team arrived, LRMs then proceeded to do nothing due to ECM.

4. Snow colony, fired a few LRMs ineffectively at a stalker before i had to move out of LOS due to sniper FOTM. Unable to fire at any other targets for the rest of the match because rest of team was hiding behind a hill and not keeping targets locked. This match also ended in 12-0 btw thanks to the broken matchmaker.

5. Frozen city, no ECM or snipers. Fired 900+ LRMs, only did 500 or so damage, including the damage by large lasers. Unarmored shadowhawk managed to tank 6 volleys before a teammate killed it with lasers.

6.River city, ECM. Funfact : 30 LRMs only do 2% damage to a Orion.

7. Snow colony, no spotters and snipers prevented direct fire.

8. River city, no spotters and snipers prevented direct fire.

9. Snow colony, LRMs largely ineffective due to terrain blocking shots. Except for that one jagermech that ran right out into the water but only took a single LRM volley before dying to focused fire. Then a premade lance rushed me and i died to focused fire.

10. Terra therma, enemy ECM neutralized. I was stsanding in the center for ages direct firing at two cicadas at <300m, who had no problems whatsoever tanking the LRMs. Just standing there for minutes firing with little to no effect...Best case scenario and the LRMs did jack ****. Same thing happened when i started firing on a Misery that was just standing at 400 meters and not moving...so many LRMs, minor damage.

So in conclusion LRMs are rendered useless by either ECM, terrain or lack of spotters 80% of the time. 20% of the time, i got a perfect scenario in which i could just stand and dump LRMs on someone with no problem, but even then the LRMs did very minor damage. The entire time i was thinking "wow if i was using a non LRM config, these guys would be dead 10 times over....".

Back to using my quad AC5 cataphract which i regularly do 700+ damage with.

it's only a problem because you are entirely relying on them for all your damage. Also, LRM's are unfair by their nature. Thats why ECM and AMS exist in the first place. If you made AMS or ECM less effective...then you would be making another game mechanic useless in exchange for making LRM's easy kill opportunities. LRM's are a support weapon. You should never-ever rely on them for all your damage. And quit whining because they only do 300 damage. My large laser mech does an average of 300 damage per match. So I don't see what your complaint is. That's a viable amount. If you are unsatisified with the amount of missiles you needed to fire...then equip more streaks or direct fire weapons. I personally think LRM's work great as a support weapon, and I think they are perfectly balanced when you use Artemis.

[oldradagast]

SgtMaster, on 07 December 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

well, LRMs could be a good team support mech prior to patch...

now, the 3 lights leave me standing alone vs 8 enemy mechs...

LRM's and LRM support mech are now useless again..!

This.

My Awesome 8R with its LRM 15's was never a strong mech, but over the past month or two (and with the new spawn points, which I overall like despite this one change), it has become little more than a punching bag. It just doesn't seem to do anything anymore. Locks seem to happen less often (probably just fewer people hitting "R") , I have no escorts to keep light hordes off me, etc.

I'm not saying "they suck" or even that the Awesome is a good mech, but LRM performance has been sliding for a while now, and I'm not sure why since the build hasn't changed nor has my overall approach.

Edited by oldradagast, 15 December 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Dahmon13]

Ok, so first, my main mech is a CPLT-C1 with
xl280 engine
15 d.heatsinks
1 ams
1 tag
2 LL's
2 LRM 10's (with 7 tones of ammo)
and 1 JJ (just one to help get around)
i am a casual player, i dont drop in groups and am deff. NOT and very good player. On avrage i do 100 to 250 dmg. per match. I have a hit rate of about 59% with my LLs and about 30% with my LRM's i try to stay in the 2nd line and not get sniped and all that but really no one else will spot for me. A tag only works LOS and with how slow a missile moves i have to be within 200m to 400m to really make the LRM's work. And I've read most of this fourm and i have to ask this. Are LRMs meant to be a support weapon or a direct fire weapon? Cause a support weapon dosen't do a whole lot of dmg. but tends to hit a lot and be very indirect in its firing, as in never sees what its shooting at. think those air and artillery strikes. A direct fire weapon tends to do a lot of dmg. but needs LOS and (normally but not always) is shorter ranged. Plus that whole they can direct fire you right back thing. Right now the LRMs are not LRMs they actually need to be used at shorter ranges then a lot of the direct fire weapons and you pretty much have to see your target. Now I am not saying the LRM's are bad or good. I'm just Saying the are not really LONG RANGE MISSILES at all nor are they really support weapons, nor are they short range missiles or a direct fire weapon. so what are they then? I still Have fun with them, and its hard to make them work with so many counters to them, AMS, ECM, sensors that dont work for {Scrap}, ect. but they don't feel like LRM's to me. Thoughts everyone?

[Saber1]

Saber1, on 15 December 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

I go full boat. Purely PUGs. Not trolling either. BAP + 2xLRM20s + Artemis. I go 61kph with my engine in each of my Catapults and have a boatload of ammo. I average 500-700 damage (sometimes 1000) and ADORE LRMs.

For those getting cored, you need to start listening to all those who are saying you need to be able to go around 70kph in a LRM boat.

You need to flank. Most of my damage comes from going "oh, you're hiding behind cover? That's fine, I'll go around."

Stick close to pug mates, odds are you aren't the only one with a BAP as you flank. What's nice about LRMs is they'll keep someone's head down. Sure they'll get a volley off at someone, and the closer you are to pug mates and the more you hug behind them, the better chance that the snipers won't be hitting you. Since I pilot a mech with perhaps the largest head hitbox, this is a reality I'm always fearing.

As you return fire, the snipers duck behind cover, as you have so elegantly complained in this entire thread. Congrats, that's an opportunity. You buy time for your puggies to move into cover and avoid the coring snipers. You also buy time to flank.

As you near the enemy's force, your real potential comes to bear. The magic range is 250-325m, you're close to your lance, they feel the confidence of another (typically heavy) mech to keep pushing and the moment the enemy decides to start brawling, you drop unstoppable hell on them. Close quarters (250m'ish) leaves VERY LITTLE ROOM FOR AMS. ECM either stops to PPC fire, fails because a BAP cancels it, is counter-jammed by friendly ECM, someone is TAGing, or it's simply destroyed/runs away in the brawl. Which typically leaves you to continue dropping hell.

As said, with little room for AMS to save anyone (not to mention split trying to stop streaks/other friendly missile fire) and ECM unreliable, you have the edge. Sure your LRMs are NOT an equivalent alpha to PPCs/Guasses/Autocannons but the moment mechs start getting entire arsenals dropped on them, each of those weapons become harder to hit with, and you risk exposing damaged sides of your mech further to the enemy each time you try to crack off a shot. There's only so much cover you can hide behind and if I can get you to keep running for cover that means you are NOT fighting with your friends. Unlike mine who are getting the chance to brawl.

There's a reason LRMs are supportive fire.

Learn to use them. Learn to abuse them. And stop sounding like the lot of you are crying for no-skill I-WIN button. LRMs aren't that and if they get buffed in any way, expect me to be one of those who abuse them to the point this entire game will turn into LRMs Online.

Don't be so quick to consider the people that DO know how to use them.

You probably just suck (as in how you're trying to use them). Or the mech you're trying to put them on, sucks. The good news is either of those things are customizable.

Read this. Pick up artemis if you're wondering why your 4xLRM15 build sucks. And odds are with that kind of weight, you're not flanking.

[Aiden Skye]

I wouldn't say LRM's are completely useless, but theyare really hit and miss in pub games. ECM everywhere, Few players bring counters (tag, bap, counter ECM), almost just as many people don't lock on and LRM's are easily avoided by terrain. If more players actually locked on and / or brought the tools to counter ECM, most of the complication of LRM'S would be eliminated right there. In those rare magic pub games where it somehow works, its really fun....but most of the time not.

There are still the situations where its hard to hit mechs in cover. Thats where your scout mechs come in to spot targets for you. In pub games most players will be in full brawler spec though. On that note, I never bring my LRM spotter to pub games as there is just no communication + Missile-boats aren't as common as brawling specs probably due to the said reasons above. There have been many games where I sat in my raven for most of the game tagging / narcing and spotting without a single / minimum LRMs fired...cuz of:

A - Lack of Missile boats and /or
B - Lack of communication.

They really do work best on a team if you want to get the most out of them.

Edited by War Khan, 17 December 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Mr Blonde]

LRM's are like any other weapon. Used correctly they are effective, incorrectly they are not. Occasionally I run into problems with hits not registering properly, which probably accounts for stories of lights and mediums absorbing tons of missiles, but I've had that same problem with most other weapons as well. If you use TAG, BAP, and a scouting light, you can demolish people with LRM's. They can hit those snipers a lot of the time if the scout has them. As with anything else, it comes down to teamwork and coordination.