45 replies to this topic

[LoganMkv]

Team pvp can be balanced for each participant only in two cases:
1. Assist is hard (shooters, slashers, tank/plane sims)
2. There are healers present which counter assist (mmorpgs)

Neither case is true for BT/MWO — MWO can only be balanced with cost/availability on team level only like strategy/tactic games.
So all effort that was put to balancing unbalancable game (anything from x2 armor to ghost heat) is plain wasted.

However we all know now that devs are not capable of implementing anything better than a team match, so I suggest following:

Make hit registration chance-based _after_ the hit was confirmed as physically registred - that can represent mechs dodging/limb blocking. So for example if you shoot someone's CT, target still has 40% chance to evade it and 30% chance to block it with a closest limb.
or
Change the game from a mech sim to a "mech sim" sim and add healers. It's stupid, but the game as it is is not even neraly realistic anyway.

[GalaxyBluestar]

you want to face team atlai... you're firing 100 shots only to have 50 hits even though the cross hairs said you're a perfect shot and when you get that kill you watch a "healer" mech bring it back to life...

it's....

it's...

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 09 December 2013 - 12:57 AM.

[Johnneh]

I'm sorry that's just plain ridicules... in fact I'm not sorry and what the ****?

[Alistair Winter]

Can we have epic flying mounts too?

We need some DOT weapons in this game. I'd like to see a Trebuchet Warlock, with some kind of daemon pet.

Good thread. In many years to come, we will remember this thread as the spark that changed the game forever.

[Homeless Bill]

I believe you're looking for MechWarrior: Tactics. While I would still vehemently argue that some sort of accuracy penalty is the only thing that will break direct-fire weapons' grip on the game, this random ******** is just not the way to go. It's a shooter. People want to hit the things they hit.

I never could get into Morrowind because I had to grind a skill to be able to land a blow. It was maddening to punch a crab for two minutes to hit it five times; if that showed up in this game, I'd quit immediately and never look back.

[Nryrony]

No, the point of a mechwarrior game is that they dont block or heal dmg at all.

Mech cost (in 12s) or a working rock paper scissors (class) system are the only ways to go.

[LoganMkv]

To all who can't understand:

Players run boats (effectively self-assist, cause alpha hits same location) — you come crying that boatsopnurf
Boats get nerfed — players run ac brawlers and you come crying that vast majority of matches are stomps, and most weapons are not usable

For example, let's take a look at current ppc:
if you have one ppc, it's pointless, cause with doubled armor nonreliable 10 damage is not effective.
If you have 3+ ppcs, it's effective, but still pointless cause no heatsinks can handle it now.
So it seems, that the only viable option is to run 2 ppc, and it's still meh? However if you have a premade, and you have several mechs assisting with any amount of ppcs at long range, it makes it much more efficient than a lot of other weapons.

Similar applies for most weapons. Firing single lrm10 is absolutely pointless, but firing 8 lrm10s in assist can wipe a mech in 2 salvos. Even consumables fall under it.

Nryrony, on 09 December 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

No, the point of a mechwarrior game is that they dont block or heal dmg at all.

Mech cost (in 12s) or a working rock paper scissors (class) system are the only ways to go.

MWO as it is now is already much further from a mechwarrior game than this.

[Alcom Isst]

Alistair Winter, on 09 December 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

I'd like to see a Trebuchet Warlock, with some kind of daemon pet.

Inb4 hero mech.

[Egomane]

Removed a few no-content-meme posts.

Please remember to post in a way that positivly contributes to discussions, even if you disagree.

[OneEyed Jack]

LoganMkv, on 09 December 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

To all who can't understand:

Oh, we understand just fine.

[Thorn Hallis]

OneEyed Jack, on 09 December 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

Oh, we understand just fine.

Actually, I don't. I have zero clue what he's talkin' about.

[OneEyed Jack]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 December 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

Actually, I don't. I have zero clue what he's talkin' about.

We understand that he wants to play World of MechCraft, because that's the way to balance it.

We understand that, like so many, he wants to play a different game, but instead of going and playing that game, he thinks this should be turned into it.

We understand that he doesn't get it.

To sum it up, it's not you that doesn't know what the OP is talking about.

[stjobe]

Homeless Bill, on 09 December 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

While I would still vehemently argue that some sort of accuracy penalty is the only thing that will break direct-fire weapons' grip on the game, this random ******** is just not the way to go. It's a shooter. People want to hit the things they hit.

Burst-fire ballistics would go a long way towards lessening the direct-damage impact, as would a beam-duration PPC.

Homeless Bill, on 09 December 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

I never could get into Morrowind because I had to grind a skill to be able to land a blow. It was maddening to punch a crab for two minutes to hit it five times; if that showed up in this game, I'd quit immediately and never look back.

Too bad, Morrowind was a great game (as all the Elder Scrolls games have been), and it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. You just should have hit something less-armoured than crabs to start out with

(disclaimer: I spent 350+ hours in Morrowind)

Edited by stjobe, 09 December 2013 - 03:55 AM.

[Blurry]

Alistair Winter, on 09 December 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

Can we have epic flying mounts too?

We need some DOT weapons in this game. I'd like to see a Trebuchet Warlock, with some kind of daemon pet.

Good thread. In many years to come, we will remember this thread as the spark that changed the game forever.

drop ships you mean yea?
and with actual respawn they are getting there.

Then again this is

PGI!

Edited by Blurry, 09 December 2013 - 04:00 AM.

[VIPER2207]

LoganMkv, on 09 December 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

Make hit registration chance-based _after_ the hit was confirmed as physically registred - that can represent mechs dodging/limb blocking. So for example if you shoot someone's CT, target still has 40% chance to evade it and 30% chance to block it with a closest limb.

so, what you want to say is, first i have to hit a target, and after the hit, i have to roll a dice to make sure i really hit?!?
sorry, nono for me. this is a FPS, i don't want to win or lose by chance.

[Joseph Mallan]

Homeless Bill, on 09 December 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

I believe you're looking for MechWarrior: Tactics. While I would still vehemently argue that some sort of accuracy penalty is the only thing that will break direct-fire weapons' grip on the game, this random ******** is just not the way to go. It's a shooter. People want to hit the things they hit.

I never could get into Morrowind because I had to grind a skill to be able to land a blow. It was maddening to punch a crab for two minutes to hit it five times; if that showed up in this game, I'd quit immediately and never look back.

So did I on the rifle range, I didn't always hit what I was pointing at, otherwise there would not be a indicator of where my last shot went cause I'd be shooting it off the target every round. Most players of games probably haven't seen real military grade weapon's fire and are thinking out of context. Imagine if you will a Battleship's broadside firing all its guns and hitting a quarter or a Dessert plate!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 December 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

So did I on the rifle range, I didn't always hit what I was pointing at, otherwise there would not be a indicator of where my last shot went cause I'd be shooting it off the target every round. Most players of games probably haven't seen real military grade weapon's fire and are thinking out of context. Imagine if you will a Battleship's broadside firing all its guns and hitting a quarter or a Dessert plate!

Oh Joseph, you're talking about Zeroing the weapon while shooting at the static M17A targets from the 50/100/300 line. That's what the techs do in the mechbay. Once you have your sights Zeroed in that's when the real competition starts. 300 back to the 500, run up to the 400 then 300 then 200 then 100 then pistols from the 50. back to reload and do it again, this time with Gas Masks. Please tell you you remember THOSE days. I sure do, lol

I would love to see a Battleship firing a full broadside. I will even bring my camera because the biggest ones that have been paid off and put to bed would have capsized if they had.

[Joseph Mallan]

LoganMkv, on 09 December 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

Change the game from a mech sim to a "mech sim" sim and add healers. It's stupid, but the game as it is is not even nearly realistic anyway.

Just to use your own words. Healers are for D&D Sword and Sorcery games.

[KinLuu]

This could buff the Awesome back into viability.

It could be the Priest!

Random Highlander: Feckin awesome, why you no hlea me?!

Random Awesome: I am a battleawesome!!!

Rest of team: lul wuddafack? Battleawesomes not viable noob ****!

No. God please. No.

[Joseph Mallan]

Randalf Yorgen, on 09 December 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Oh Joseph, you're talking about Zeroing the weapon while shooting at the static M17A targets from the 50/100/300 line. That's what the techs do in the mechbay. Once you have your sights Zeroed in that's when the real competition starts. 300 back to the 500, run up to the 400 then 300 then 200 then 100 then pistols from the 50. back to reload and do it again, this time with Gas Masks. Please tell you you remember THOSE days. I sure do, lol

I would love to see a Battleship firing a full broadside. I will even bring my camera because the biggest ones that have been paid off and put to bed would have capsized if they had.

I wasn't an Army Dog, 100/200/500. However that was a single weapon fired, did you fire 4 rifles at once? Or two pistols? Even if my Broadside example was OP show me a U-Tube of any vehicle shooting multiple weapons and hitting a dessert plate with everything.

I don't think skill means what most players think it does.