35 replies to this topic

[Sweet Baby Pirate]

Just a thought. Streaks would still of course have much better homing ability, and SRMs would behave like they currently do if you fire without a lock - but if you did have a lock then they'd lazily arc in the general direction of your target. Just enough so that they're a better match for ACs at close range.

[Roughneck45]

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 08 December 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

but if you did have a lock then they'd lazily arc in the general direction of your target.

Thats how SSRMs should have been

Regular SRMs having a lock would be kind of silly though, just from a lore standpoint. What they do need is better hit reg and possibly an increase to missile speed.

[Whatzituyah]

Roughneck45, on 08 December 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Thats how SSRMs should have been

Regular SRMs having a lock would be kind of silly though, just from a lore standpoint. What they do need is better hit reg and possibly an increase to missile speed.

Just a thought wouldn't that make SRMs more like SRRs? "Short Range Rocket"

[Sweet Baby Pirate]

Roughneck45, on 08 December 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Regular SRMs having a lock would be kind of silly though, just from a lore standpoint.

Ah ok, I never played TT. Sarna.net makes it clear that the guidance on SSRMs is a hell of a lot better, but I couldn't actually find a definitive statement that regular SRMs are completely unguided.

[Screech]

I would just like them to shoot straight, this random flight pattern makes sense if I was shooting bottle rockets. Have them shoot like the LBX. Then adjust the speed and spread on them.

[FireSlade]

The only way that SRMs could lock is if you put different ammo in and the enemy was tagged with NARC. It would be like if you put a laser on a target and the bomb would follow that beam until it hit the target. Same principle different method. Read this for more info http://www.sarna.net..._Missile_Beacon

[MustrumRidcully]

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 08 December 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Ah ok, I never played TT. Sarna.net makes it clear that the guidance on SSRMs is a hell of a lot better, but I couldn't actually find a definitive statement that regular SRMs are completely unguided.

The only place in the table top where you find lock-ons is for Streaks. But that doesn't mean that LRMs and SRMs are unguided, it just means Streaks are special.

Especially if you consider that SRMs can have Artemis and Artemis is countered by ECM. That can't be if there isn't some kind of guidance involved, if you fire a dumb-fire rocket, it won't get confused by an ECM.

[Thorqemada]

I thought they could scrap Missile HSR when making SRM guided weapons.
SRM would be the choice for brawling against Heavys and Assault as they pretty much flight straight with a low tracking ability and SSRM could be the Anti-Light and Medium Mech solution with a high tracking ability but smaller numbers.

When Clan LRM arrive i will try to fith them as i neither like the brute force approach of SRM nor the missiletrap SSRM - but i like the wosh of LRM and how they arc up and hawk down toward the enemy until you get in brawling range and Clan-LRM have no minimum range so i dont waste tonnage on weapon that are dead weight in close combat.

Rule of thumb of any of my Mechbuilds: DPS must increase the closer the enemy gets!

[Sweet Baby Pirate]

Tangentially related - if it was decided that LRMs need a buff, one way to do this would be to add the ability to dumb-fire them. If you fire without a lock then they'd head towards the point your guns converge - i.e. straight ahead, at the distance of the nearest thing under your crosshairs. What they do at the moment doesn't make a lot of sense to me - if they have no chance of hitting anything without a lock, why not disable the trigger to save ammo like SSRMs do?

Edited by Sweet Baby Pirate, 08 December 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 08 December 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Tangentially related - if it was decided that LRMs need a buff, one way to do this would be to add the ability to dumb-fire them. If you fire without a lock then they'd head towards the point your guns converge - i.e. straight ahead, at the distance of the nearest thing under your crosshairs. What they do at the moment doesn't make a lot of sense to me - if they have no chance of hitting anything without a lock, why not disable the trigger to save ammo like SSRMs do?

This.

[Bront]

I like the idea of SRMs having some kind of limited guidence and that dumbfired they work as they do now. It would make them a little bit better, and that would assist so many mechs and offer an alternative to ballistics (and make SRM artemis a more definitive bonus).

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 08 December 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Tangentially related - if it was decided that LRMs need a buff, one way to do this would be to add the ability to dumb-fire them. If you fire without a lock then they'd head towards the point your guns converge - i.e. straight ahead, at the distance of the nearest thing under your crosshairs. What they do at the moment doesn't make a lot of sense to me - if they have no chance of hitting anything without a lock, why not disable the trigger to save ammo like SSRMs do?

Um, LRMs already do this. You can fire them without a lock, and they go where you pointed them. I've killed shutdown mechs with LRMs. The won't fire without a lock was what made SSRMs unique, and the idea was to conseve ammo (something that SRMS on table top really didn't need)

[Koniving]

Roughneck45, on 08 December 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Thats how SSRMs should have been

Regular SRMs having a lock would be kind of silly though, just from a lore standpoint. What they do need is better hit reg and possibly an increase to missile speed.

They were. People cried.


One interesting thing to note: SRMs have some guidance. In tabletop all SRMs fired from a single launcher hit the same component. In the original MW5 video, SRM direction was controlled manually by indicating where to have it fire with the targeting crosshair, and since they fired one at a time like bullets, they could be made to do spread patterns for useful things like destroying buildings.


Also, ACs fire much more rapidly and cause 'impulse' in a way that throws off aim. SLs fire like rapid fire guns.

[DeadlyFred]

What exactly does artemis do for SRMs? Saw someone with that the other night and just chuckled... would it not be completely moot?

[FireSlade]

DeadlyFred, on 08 December 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

What exactly does artemis do for SRMs? Saw someone with that the other night and just chuckled... would it not be completely moot?

Artemis tightens the SRM spread. Imagine your ASRMs hitting the area of your thumb instead of 1.5-2 times your thumb.

[Sug]

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 08 December 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Ah ok, I never played TT. Sarna.net makes it clear that the guidance on SSRMs is a hell of a lot better, but I couldn't actually find a definitive statement that regular SRMs are completely unguided.

"Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. "

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_SRM

DeadlyFred, on 08 December 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

What exactly does artemis do for SRMs? Saw someone with that the other night and just chuckled... would it not be completely moot?

It tightens the spread of the missiles.

Edited by Sug, 08 December 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Sweet Baby Pirate]

Bront, on 08 December 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Um, LRMs already do this. You can fire them without a lock, and they go where you pointed them.

Damn, just went in testing grounds and you're right. I'm going to try using this for suppressing fire.

[Thorqemada]

Artemis tightens the SRM-spread afaik but some say it makes the SRM-HSR issues even more worse.
Imho the only solution will be (semi-)guided srms...its safe to say HSR will ever work only partially with some weapons and that must be at first ACs and at second Lasers - why waste dev time for only one Missile Weapon when a semi-guided-mode solves it better...

Edited by Thorqemada, 08 December 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Artemis tightens up their pattern -- they spread less.

In the computer games, regular SRMs have always been unguided.

In the lore, they did have basic guidance capability. However, that is evidently difficult to translate into a computer game since you would have to make some of them miss on purpose. Nobody has tried it anyway.

According to the lore, Streaks are supposed to hit 100% of the time when you lock on regardless of terrain or evasion attempts, assuming you are in range. However, I only have 74.20% accuracy with them in MW:O.

We already have guided SRMs. What we don't have is true Streaks.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 08 December 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[FireSlade]

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 08 December 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Damn, just went in testing grounds and you're right. I'm going to try using this for suppressing fire.

It is a bad idea to do unless they are just standing there. They move too slow to hit anything effectively so you will waste ammo most of the time. What is nice to do is aim for an assault sniping and thinking that no one noticed them, then when you dumb fire your LRMs they never see the "incoming missiles" warning.

[Bront]

Sweet Baby Pirate, on 08 December 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Damn, just went in testing grounds and you're right. I'm going to try using this for suppressing fire.

Of course I'm right. I'm always right.
And humble too.