60 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Prezimonto, on 09 December 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

I do exceptionally well in a similar AC20 Shad build, but then my favorite mech is the Victor and you can play the two fairly similar with the shad needing a bit more friends near by to soak damage. I haven't played a hunchie since closed beta, so I can't comment, though I used to love them until everyone learned to just shoot the GIANT hump that you can't possible turn far enough to protect. I understand you have to play them differently, however on open maps they're a liability (even if they're good on tight maps) and without the option to choose a mech after a map I haven't wanted to reinvest in them again.

Learn to twist. I seldom lose my Hunch. with a 3 to 1 KDr on it, I am thinking my ELO can't be too bad, so it ain't cause I'm facing scrubs. HBK twists farther than any other mech, and twists FAST. Time it, fire in their cooldown, snap back out of line.

[Prezimonto]

The larger issue now is that I'd have to sell some mechs to free up garage space for more mechs (done spending money here until I see the game play itself become more interesting and I'd rather spend cbills on engine variety and/or MOAR UAV's for spotting fun). And my Shadowhawks all run very different builds, are fun, and can run something similar to the Hunchie and do well. It's not like it's the only thing I'm having fun with on it, it's just my best performing build among them.

And I do understand torso twisting, but I played a lot of 4P Hunchie in closed beta and it felt that people look for you to pop up and selectively target you over even the boom cat next door.

[Carrioncrows]

Shadey99, on 09 December 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I think their might be some sort of ping/connection thing involved in this. I've found no one even slows down shooting me when I jj, so I rarely use them in combat except for 360 turns...

Then chances are they are missing, or not hitting where they want to.

When I JJ or short hop unless they are a complete nob and keep the trigger held down fire slackens until they can draw a bead on me again.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Learn to twist. I seldom lose my Hunch. with a 3 to 1 KDr on it, I am thinking my ELO can't be too bad, so it ain't cause I'm facing scrubs. HBK twists farther than any other mech, and twists FAST. Time it, fire in their cooldown, snap back out of line.

I run no armor on the back of my hunch you lose it from the front 95% of the time and it not that hard to protect your back if you are a good pilot. Its kept my hunch alive many times.

[Ngamok]

Red squirrel, on 08 December 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Hi folks,


I fear that the 55 tonners are going to kill the 50 ton mechs.

Already, the Kintaro is the better missile boat than the Treb. And if you miss the jump jets why not take a Griffin
(Say when have you last seen a Trebuchet?)

The ShadowHawk is the better AC20 Hunchback

And soon this Wolverine or that Wolverine or another Wolverine will replace the Cent / Cent


Edit: So far only the HBK-4P seems to be unique.



please discuss, rant, or whine: now

The HBK-4SP is as well, 5E and 2M.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Amsro, on 08 December 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Meh I still trebuchet and I don't LRM boat with it. Guess I'm not "MetaWarrior"!

If you use PPCs/Gausses/ACs on them you are metawarrior .

[RiotHero]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

yup. In fact, I prefer it when Jenners and Spiders are in jump, as their path is more predictable. When the big guys are in mid air, I pretty much never miss.

Exactly, I love it when any mech jumps during a fight. You know exactly where they are going to go and they are doing it so slowly. I just sit there and keep pumping damage into them from the ground with my crosshair dead center. Meanwhile, their aim is shaking like crazy and half the time they lose sight of you in the air. No jump jets are faster than arm mounted weapons.

[Martin Oberhofer]

well jump ambush in a Jenner could be quiet hefty
depends on terrain an skill
just to make it harder i prefer jumping directly over the opponent giving me time to land and turn faster than he turns.
and JJ are great to minimize the terrain slowdown (Terra, Caustic...)
I got taken out of the air, but very rarly by ACs/PPC ect. if then nearly always by lasers if i am already critical on damage.

i tried the SHD AC20 and must say i liked the hunchi more, i build it in the belive to build a better Hunch but....
the twist speed and angle is a nice advantage, the problem is, that everyone knows where to aim (familiar to AS7 pilots?)
where on the SHD i get more distributed damage. But the little hunchie is smal and mostly faster.
It depens a lot on playstyle - for brawling i prefer the Huch, as alrounder -> SHD

[Bishop Steiner]

Martin Oberhofer, on 09 December 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

well jump ambush in a Jenner could be quiet hefty
depends on terrain an skill
just to make it harder i prefer jumping directly over the opponent giving me time to land and turn faster than he turns.
and JJ are great to minimize the terrain slowdown (Terra, Caustic...)
I got taken out of the air, but very rarly by ACs/PPC ect. if then nearly always by lasers if i am already critical on damage.

i tried the SHD AC20 and must say i liked the hunchi more, i build it in the belive to build a better Hunch but....
the twist speed and angle is a nice advantage, the problem is, that everyone knows where to aim (familiar to AS7 pilots?)
where on the SHD i get more distributed damage. But the little hunchie is smal and mostly faster.
It depens a lot on playstyle - for brawling i prefer the Huch, as alrounder -> SHD

pretty much in agreement.

I actually love using the HBK on Terra Therma. The JJs of the Shad would be nice, but my canopener build is very low heat, so it kinda makes up for it between size, agility and heat endurance. I tend to take to the lave channels near Theta, where most mechs including Shads are in near constant heat distress. Their mobility is limited, and their firepower too. Whereas my ac20 and twin MG are pretty free to go fullretard on people. About the only thing I fear to run into is a boomjager as they can still wreck me with one to two volleys. But even those I have side gutted so many times from ambush. And literally every other chassis I have made short work of in there.

[Amsro]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 09 December 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

If you use PPCs/Gausses/ACs on them you are metawarrior .

SRM's and Medium Lasers.

[CDLord HHGD]

I still prefer my HBK-4G over my Shawk... The Shawks are too big imo...

[HammerSwarm]

Red squirrel, on 08 December 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Hi folks,
I fear that the 55 tonners are going to kill the 50 ton mechs.
Already, the Kintaro is the better missile boat than the Treb. And if you miss the jump jets why not take a Griffin
(Say when have you last seen a Trebuchet?)
The ShadowHawk is the better AC20 Hunchback
And soon this Wolverine or that Wolverine or another Wolverine will replace the Cent / Cent
Edit: So far only the HBK-4P seems to be unique.
please discuss, rant, or whine: now

I think you're conflating several design and implementation problems and oversimplifying them to weight.

My favorite LRM KTO is this beast KTO-18

Now when comparing it to the Trebuchet I have several problems.

Firstly the trebuchet offers limited and confused hard points offering no true missile variant. No variant except the 7M has more than two missile hard points. The seven M has a hard point with a single tube which kinda sucks for lrming. This lack of hard points cuts down the ability to vary builds considerably. I don't always want to fire a full 15 rack of LRMS..but if I only have on hard point my choices are?

Secondly the design of the trebuchet is terrible. It's a mini(but barely) awesome. The thing is a mile wide and the arm shield which is a benefit on the centurion because it has no weapons in it is a death sentence on a trebuchet because it has all of your weapons in it. The KTO in comparison has a good layout of points and while the CT is a catchers mit for damage it still seems to last longer.

Thirdly the confused hard point layout makes you vulnerable to both coring and de-arming. As a trebuchet your only defense is not to be shot.

This is my favorite Trebuchet, one of the two I kept, and a mech that could be useful with tonnage limits, TBT-7M But as you can see I'm not taking advantage of all of the hard points and other than a bit of jumpiness to improve shooting angles and evade fire it's kind of a sitting duck with an XL and 38 side torso armor.

The trebuchet could be good if they tweaked it slightly and split the LRM 15 in the torso into 2 or 3 hard points allowing for some streak builds or at least some SRM defense. Currently I have lasers and hope lights don't find me. Also if you thinned the torsos out and made the whole thing just a bit smaller.

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 10 December 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

I still prefer my HBK-4G over my Shawk... The Shawks are too big imo...

if we had to pick one mech for all purpose, every drop use, my Shads win out. When and if we get to tailor our chassis selection to the mission? The HBK will definitely see a lot of play, but mostly on the more congested maps like Canyon Network, Crimson Straits, Terra Therma. I can work it OK on the rest, but in most cases the HBK will be short range biased, whereas my Shawks respond at all ranges and are faster.

[Snowcrow]

Until we have tonnage limits, there's no real reason to choose the lighter mechs of a weight class.
Hopefully they'll introduce this feature soon.

Edited by Snowcrow, 10 December 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Red squirrel]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 December 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

if we had to pick one mech for all purpose, every drop use, my Shads win out. When and if we get to tailor our chassis selection to the mission? The HBK will definitely see a lot of play, but mostly on the more congested maps like Canyon Network, Crimson Straits, Terra Therma. I can work it OK on the rest, but in most cases the HBK will be short range biased, whereas my Shawks respond at all ranges and are faster.

Agreed

Snowcrow, on 10 December 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Until we have tonnage limits, there's no real reason to choose the lighter mechs of a weight class.
Hopefully they'll introduce this feature soon.

But then, 5 tons dont really matter. The tonange limit is more about having less than 50% Assault mechs in a team.

[FupDup]

Speaking of the "Can Opener" Hunchie, here is something that I randomly thought-up for Shads that is fairly similar:
SHD-2H: Mock Can-Opener

The big downside is that it doesn't have as big of an alpha because of a smaller AC, will probably run a little bit hotter, and one more weapon group to manage. The upsides are greater speed, JJs, long-range capabilities, and better hitboxes. Thoughts?

Edited by FupDup, 10 December 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Piloting my HBK-4G(F) with an AC20 and 3xMLas and a STD215, I have no problems killing Shadowhawks. Or some Atlases for that matter. It's the little buggers I worry about.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 10 December 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Gremlich Johns, on 10 December 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Piloting my HBK-4G(F) with an AC20 and 3xMLas and a STD215, I have no problems killing Shadowhawks. Or some Atlases for that matter. It's the little buggers I worry about.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7d484457e4d58fb

[Bishop Steiner]

I've driven all the 3 medium Hunchies out there. I outperform them in this HBK-4G "Can-Opener" everytime. And the hotter it gets, the better the performance edge. I own on TerrA Therma with this guy.

[ToxinTractor]

Once tonnage becomes a factor i can see the lighter mechs being very useful! especially ones that have the option of fitting lots of fire power in a compact frame.