21 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Branson]

Small Laser

• Optimum range increased from 90 to 120 meters
  
• Max range increased from 180 to 240 meters

Large Laser Family (LL/ERLL/LPL)

• Max Alpha increased from 2 to 3

Machine Gun

• Cone of fire reduced

NARC

• Duration increased from 30 to 60 seconds
  
• Range increased from 450 to 500 meters

SRM 2/4/6

• Damage increased from 2.0 to 2.5

LRM 5/10/15/20

• Projectile speed increased from 120 to 140 m/s

Thoughts/Opinions?

[FupDup]

Needs moar Flamers, Pulse Lasers, and LBX (perhaps even AC/2 heat reduction?).

[Nehkrosis]

Have Flamers do damage to Heatsink's in areas with exposed internals, like machineguns, but just for HS.
Engine heatsinks would also be affected if the CT was busted.

Then, Flamers would serve a purpose in vastly reducing a mechs ability to cool itself in a brawling situation as it overheats and destroys its HS.

[Sable Dove]

Half the hit-detection problems with SRMs are because they're so slow. Bump them up to 300m/s for a start, and work on fixing hit-detection. if those are done, a damage buff would be unnecessary.

NARC would still be useless because the slightest damage will knock it off. For the tonnage and space, it would still be garbage.

LRMs need a whole re-work if they're ever going to be something other than either overpowered or useless.

[Sybreed]

Sable Dove, on 08 December 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Half the hit-detection problems with SRMs are because they're so slow. Bump them up to 300m/s for a start, and work on fixing hit-detection. if those are done, a damage buff would be unnecessary.

NARC would still be useless because the slightest damage will knock it off. For the tonnage and space, it would still be garbage.

LRMs need a whole re-work if they're ever going to be something other than either overpowered or useless.

well said on most accounts. NARC needs the hitpoints per beacons removed, otherwise you could increase its duration to 120 seconds and it would still be knocked off after an AC/20 hit.

LRMs need to be reworked, also true. But, as long as PGI allows LRM boating, no amount of Ghost heat will prevent them from causing mass QQ

[Deathlike]

Sybreed, on 08 December 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

well said on most accounts. NARC needs the hitpoints per beacons removed, otherwise you could increase its duration to 120 seconds and it would still be knocked off after an AC/20 hit.

Just change it to unlimited damage until the component NARC is on has been removed by the following:

1) When applied to external armor, it will be removed when the section is breached, or when 1/4 of the armor in the front section has been removed (shooting NARCs in the mech's back)
2) When applied to internal armor, it will be removed when that section is destroyed.

That should be a lot more fair/balanced... I think.

[Corvus Antaka]

and in 1 post, game balance has been fixed!

[Sybreed]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 08 December 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

and in 1 post, game balance has been fixed!

hey, you weren't FRR before!?

[Fooooo]

Deathlike, on 08 December 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Just change it to unlimited damage until the component NARC is on has been removed by the following:

1) When applied to external armor, it will be removed when the section is breached, or when 1/4 of the armor in the front section has been removed (shooting NARCs in the mech's back)
2) When applied to internal armor, it will be removed when that section is destroyed.

That should be a lot more fair/balanced... I think.

I'd say that would be a little too much.

You would have multiple mechs narced in the legs so you have perm locks on them all game & can see exactly where the whole team is.

It can't work like that without some restrictions on either where you can shoot them, or how many can be active as a whole (as in only x number of narcs can be active on an enemy mech at a time etc)

If only 1 mech could be under this effect then I'd say it would be balanced.


I think as a starter tho, narc should recive the following.

• Timer for narc has been removed. (or increased to 1 - 3mins)
  
• Damage before narc is removed has been changed to a percentage of the armor remaining on the section hit. If no armor remains or less than 10%, the effect bleeds into the internals. (DMG percentage at 50%? 60%? this would basically allow for narc to be balanced when on a light mech or heavy or assault, as having a hard number like say 60 means 1 narc on a CT will kill a light everytime.)
  
• Only damage from missiles that benefited from narc will effect the damage limit & only those that hit the narced section. (so no more ac/20's taking narcs off)
  
• Ammo per ton increased to x
  
• Reload time increased to 10 or 15 or 20+ sec
  
• Speed of projectile increased to somewhere at or between 1500 - 2000ms
  
• Range of narc missiles decreased to 250m or 350m (to promote lights or faster mechs using narc mainly by running in close, and to stop long range narcing....however maybe 400-500 would be better..)
  
• Narc will not stick to the legs and will be wasted by doing so. (optional this one )
  
• Limit of 2 active narc beacons per team. (this can be adjusted)
  
• If 2 beacons are already active for your team, you will not be able to fire any further narcs. (can also be adjusted so people CAN waste ammo, but this is here to prevent that really as it would be somewhat hard to know if 2 are already active without some UI addition or cycling through all the enemy the targets.)

Thats pretty much what I'd do to narc anyway

Edited by Fooooo, 08 December 2013 - 11:51 PM.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Yes, buff information warfare! Buff NARC and TAG!




...and buff flamers and mgs too, because they do thinks other than just 'splode and I want to think more.

Edited by 18 Inches of Hard Steel, 09 December 2013 - 01:17 AM.

[William Mountbank]

SLs really don't need a buff, they're already ton for ton the most efficient weapon, and the short range is offset by the fact that they're such a great secondary weapon. Buffing their range is just pushing us all back towards having access to our full alpha at all ranges.
If you want more range, drop half a ton of armour and get a ML.

[Rasc4l]

Another set of excellent simple suggestions, which will in all likelihood go ignored. Just like the ones in my signature.

Hey, you can't just go and change some numbers in a text file, you have to run them thru internal quality assessment and whatnot. It is simply not possible to extrapolate in your head how the game would change if such little number-fudging were to take place.

Frustration level, critical. Argh!

[ssm]

Maverick01, on 08 December 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Small Laser

• Optimum range increased from 90 to 120 meters
  
• Max range increased from 180 to 240 meters

Large Laser Family (LL/ERLL/LPL)

• Max Alpha increased from 2 to 3

Machine Gun

• Cone of fire reduced

NARC

• Duration increased from 30 to 60 seconds
  
• Range increased from 450 to 500 meters

SRM 2/4/6

• Damage increased from 2.0 to 2.5

LRM 5/10/15/20

• Projectile speed increased from 120 to 140 m/s

Thoughts/Opinions?

I like those, except increasing Max Alpha from 2 to 3 for Lasers and thread title - it's not "Perfect Balance Patch" - proposed changes are to small to affect game balance, and in truth - even if they were big enough, they could just as well create imbalance somewhere else or shift the meta.

[Reitrix]

Sybreed, on 08 December 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

well said on most accounts. NARC needs the hitpoints per beacons removed, otherwise you could increase its duration to 120 seconds and it would still be knocked off after an AC/20 hit.

LRMs need to be reworked, also true. But, as long as PGI allows LRM boating, no amount of Ghost heat will prevent them from causing mass QQ

For as long as we have missile hardpoints, we will have 'LRM boats'. In fact, a lot of canon variants are built specifically to BE LRM boats.

What we need to do is force ammo to be in the torso adjacent to the weapon needing it. Theres a reason CASE only fits in torso sections.
That limits LRM boats from spamming all over the place at the slightest lock. They need to be careful with ammo. That has the side effect reducing ballistic boats effectiveness due to limited ammo.

I still have no idea how my A1 manages to load a missile into my right arm from the left leg.

[Blurry]

Mr. Sandman
Bring me a dream
Make her compaction
Like peaches and cream
Give her two lips
Like roses in clover
Then tell me that my lonesome nights are over

Sandman
I'm so alone
Don't have nobody
To call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman bring me a dream

Mr sandman pleas bring me a patch,
a balanced one
that reduced the grind
Please make me a match
that isnt 12-0

Mr sandman please bring PGI a patch.

Edited by Blurry, 09 December 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[Deathlike]

Fooooo, on 08 December 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

I'd say that would be a little too much.

It's not. Really, it's not.

Quote

You would have multiple mechs narced in the legs so you have perm locks on them all game & can see exactly where the whole team is.

It's not that hard to refine actually.

You either program the missiles to home into the section of the mech that it is attached to (which would like be more problematic in some instances, like when you fire the NARC into the head of a target) or, use a different mechanic.

For instance, if the NARC hits the head (who would do this?), then we measure damage that hits the CT and remove the NARC once the CT external armor hits under 1/4 max external armor.

If the NARC hits the leg (it doesn't matter front or back, since armor is not split on them), then the appropriate side torso is used for armor determination.

It would average that you would need two good NARC shots to kill a mech... one to strip the external armor, one more to remove the internals. The NARC shots would require skill to make...

Quote

It can't work like that without some restrictions on either where you can shoot them, or how many can be active as a whole (as in only x number of narcs can be active on an enemy mech at a time etc)

If only 1 mech could be under this effect then I'd say it would be balanced.

Noone wants Ghost NARC. NARC is already a ghost as is.

NARC duration and limited to one NARC active on a mech is fine (simply resetting the timer and using the last NARC hit on the target is good enough). However, NARC should be able to affect as many mechs as it can, but since the duration is active (probably should be extended to 45 or 60 seconds in the first place) you don't really want to NARC the entire enemy group that quickly (you only have so many targets and so much time to keep it effective).

Edited by Deathlike, 09 December 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Praehotec8]

Some nice changes. Pulse lasers need a bit more adjustment though.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

No - all they need to do is replace all munitions with pillows.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Maverick01, on 08 December 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Machine Gun

• Cone of fire reduced

The cone of fire only pertains to the animation the weapon produces, the actual weapon is hit scan similar to a how the laser mechanics work in game. This "fix" solves nothing.

[focuspark]

NARC duration to 5 minutes (300 seconds) give it a 10% chance per hit of being destroyed (single AC cannot remove it this way but machine guns f@#* it up because they have a high probability of actually striking the beacon). Change NARC to so that any targets with NARC attached always show on the mini-map and can be locked on to regardless of range and line of sight. ECM should still only prevent/slow lock-on, but not the tracking ability.

Ghost heat needs to be completely removed.

Convergence should be removed as well.

Disagree about SRM damage. Velocity should be doubled, and SSRM reduced to 2.0 (inline with SRM2).

ECM should make the carrying 'mech easy to spot and lock-on to, but should continue to protect nearby 'mechs.

ECCM should be removed.

BAP should not cancel ECM.

TAG should not cancel ECM.

TAG & NARC should provide instant lock-on to targets.

TAG should defeat ECM lock-on blocker at any range, but not ECM paper doll hiding.

Pulse Lasers need to be very high DPS (low alpha) "laser machine guns".

Edited by focuspark, 09 December 2013 - 03:11 PM.