74 replies to this topic

[joedawg39s]

clan tech isn't everything.
http://www.sarna.net...tle_of_Tukayyid

[Skylarr]

Stomp, on 19 December 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

LOL have you actually PLAYED Battletech? An Urbanmech might not fare too well until tonnage limits in this game, but in Battletech, a Star of Timber Wolves is up **** creek without a paddle facing down 25 Urbies in their home turf. And running away? That's the best way to fight in an UrbanMech, because they have 360 degree torso twist... That's right. I can run away AND hit you with 20 points of damage. Good luck.

UrbanMech's do not have 360 degree torso twist as standard. It does not say it in the description. You must have been using a house rule. But, the AC10/20 is mounted in the Arm and can be fired at Mech behind it by either flipping its arm or torso twisting and firing the weapon at mechs behind you.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

I would love to see the Hatchetman....and the use of my arms and legs as Close in weapons.......I also would love to see TSM...
Yeahh Baby..Eat my Axe with TSM.....

[Damocles]

Mechs that make me want to scream?

Timberwolf. POS.

[Escef]

Skylarr, on 19 December 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

UrbanMech's do not have 360 degree torso twist as standard. It does not say it in the description. You must have been using a house rule.

Possible as a short cut (or mis-remembering) the "flip-arms" rule, which the Urbie meets the specifications for. That AC10 absolutely has a 360° field of fire.

[Dymitry]

I heard this urbie argument way too many times. Then people get ACd in the face and in the back. Repeatedly. Then they die. Then they complain that BV is broken. And urbie laughs.

[Skylarr]

Marack Drock, on 20 December 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

Here is the thing. Clan Warriors are 10+ better than Inner Sphere pilots, have the enhanced imaging, no minimum range on most of their weapons (including LRM 20 which 2 of could easily take a Urban mech down in one salvo), all of there weapons do more damage and many times have more range, usually are the same or just a little more heat, etc. The list of superiority goes on for ages. Two lances of Timberwolves wins of 4 lances of Urbies hands down. Urbies can only win in Urban environment where they have plenty of cover.

Quote

Developed by the Clans, Enhanced Imaging or EI is an advanced targeting and piloting system for use with humanoid shaped combat vehicles such as BattleMechs, Battle Armor and ProtoMechs. While offering considerable advantages, as well as serving as the only viable control method for ProtoMechs, EI inflicts serious side effects on the user, including possible mental instability, nerve damage and death.

Not every Clanner had EI's. Only a handful. The units that fought the IS on the open field won hands down. The Clan units that persuade IS forces into a city also won, but, took a pounding. UrbanMechs should only be used in Urban fighting. You rarely find them outside of an Urban environment. If you did find one outside of an Urban environment it is most likely because they were part of a Merc Unit.

Quote

The UrbanMech was designed for just what its name suggests, urban combat and defense. This was achieved by starting with a cheap, easily-produced chassis, giving it six tons Durallex armor to rival the protection found on many medium-weight BattleMechs, and mounting a pair of Pitban 6000 jump jets for a jumping distance of 60 meters. The trade-off was that it could only mount the miserly Leenix 60 engine, making the UrbanMech the slowest light 'Mech in existence with a cruising speed of 21 km/h and top speed of only 32.4 km/h. This was a severe disadvantage if the 'Mech attempted to fight in open country - something for only the foolish or desperate - but off-set by the fact that fighting in the close confines of a Star League city left little room to maneuver anyways and the UrbanMech's low profile made it difficult to target. Thus the 'Mech was primarily used for fighting guerrillas and other light 'Mechs in an urban environment, an arena where it also achieved some success fighting medium and even heavy-weight 'Mechs. Standard tactics for an UrbanMech lance was to split up into its constituent parts and occupy various buildings in order to snipe the enemy before falling back to the next defensive line.

An UrbanMech lance in a Urban environment may also have Infantry, SRM Carrier, LRM Carrier, other Light/ Medium vehicles and/or VTOLs as support.

[LoPanShui]

"An

Marack Drock, on 20 December 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

Here is the thing. Clan Warriors are 10+ better than Inner Sphere pilots... Urbies can only win in Urban environment where they have plenty of cover.

Actually Clan Warriors just have -1 to both of their skills, not -40. And second...

Dude.

Submarines can only win in the water. You wouldn't hurl a submarine onto a mountain and shout, 'Go! beat all those stupid tanks!" Why the hell would anyone take an Urbanmech out of an Urban environment. It's in the name. Literally your argument makes no sense.

Nobody is saying an Urbanmech is better than a MadCat. People are saying that an equal BV of Urbanmechs in an urban environment would rip a MadCat to pieces. Which, you know, even if you don't pad in the extra BV difference with SRM infantry and SRM carriers, but just use 'Mechs, is 5 AC/10s from 5 different directions, some of which are hiding in Hardened (Armor 90) structures, at ranges where the clan range advantage and gunnery skill advantage don't really matter.

And if it's the AC/20 version of the Urbie that TImberwolf will be fighting 6 of them. So two stars of Timberwolves? 10 75 ton 'Mechs, 750 tons of Clan dominance? They're looking at 60 Urban'Mechs, or 1800 tons of Inner Sphere firepower, for the same BV. In a city? Timberwolves are going to be smoking ruin by turn three.

You're not looking at the 2 to 1 odds you suggested in your post. You're looking at 5 or 6 to one odds.

And if you go by C-Bill costs it's closer to 16 to 1.

Edited by LoPanShui, 20 December 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[joedawg39s]

Marack Drock, on 20 December 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

The Clans pretty much lost because they were to focused on giving Clan Wolf trouble through the hole thing and they bidded way to low. Their pride defeated them not there weapons.

So pride made them think their tech would win out no matter what odds they faced? No nothing ironic there!

[dal10]

assuming the prime variant for all mad cats and the r60 version for all urbanmechs. Also assuming all mechs are always within range of all other mechs.

MCs have 425 total damage to the urbies 325. mad cat wins by about 1/3rd additional firepower.
you have 1725 total health. the urbies have 3600. the urbies have over twice your total health.
however your mad cat also suffers from the fact it can't alpha without overheating.
by staying heat neutral in the fight, your firepower slips to roughly 280 total. you can overdo that but it will cost you.
urbies can't overheat. it simply isn't possible without engine damage.

that being said, losing one urbanmech isn't a big deal. losing one mad cat is. there are 30 mechs in play. unless it goes by player, which isn't fair in this case, as it could potentially allow the urbies to destroy one mad cat or the mad cats to destroy upwards of 5-6 urbies, the mech order would have to be rolled out. barring extreme luck on either side, the is player will in general move sooner with quite a few of their units than the clan player.

that being said, it is possible, albeit incredibly incredibly unlikely for a madcat to survive getting hit by every shot by every urbanmech.

odds are, by the end of the first turn 1-2 mad cat will be gone, 1-2 will be damaged and the other is likely to be hurt at all. that being said at least 3 urbies will be gone with several more damaged.

however, the loss of one mad cat is devastating for your damage output. if the urbies got lucky and took out 2, its game. there is no recovering without the urbies rolling horribly.

to put it simply the force multiplier between the 2 sides puts the urbies at 60k bv to your 19k. there is a big difference.

[dal10]

not really. your lrm 20 will average around 12 damage, with missile hits table.

on a side note, urbies don't chase. it is a waste of time.

[LoPanShui]

...Erotic statements?

[Victor Morson]

Graywar, on 11 December 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

He means the Ostscout.

I used to mock the Ostscout.

After it punched my head off about 50 times in Megamek, I will hold my tongue.

[PanzerMagier]

Berserker.

Nothing like a 100tonner with a hatched.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Hollander. Every time one of my friends brings out his Hollander in a game I know it's only a matter of a few rounds until he rolls a headhit with that damn gauss cannon. It never bloody fails! Usually on something big and expensive.

[Fusea]

I assume this is stock mechs, cause once you start modding, who really cares what you had. The Grand Titan. Really? Slap all those useless secondary weapons all over its body and give it the DHS to deal with practically none of it? Shear Genius.

[JakeEDogge]

[color=#959595]I've lost a Warhammer to a Locust once. I kept losing initiative and ending up with the Locust in the Whammie's six. Eventually the little ******* critted out the engine.[/color]

[color=#959595]Next game I saw a Locust in I Alpha'd a Rifleman at it, pretty much point blank. I missed with one of the ACs, but the other and all 4 lasers hit. Wasn't enough left of it to turn into a bike rack. [/color]

[color=#959595]At which point Escef you overheated, your ammo blew up and you died right? [/color][color=#959595]As for an AC20 Urbanmech....top speed of 30km/h, no jump and a max range of 270m.....MAYBE if you surprise something you'd get one shot. A Madcat would rip it to bits.[/color]

Edited by JakeEDogge, 01 January 2014 - 03:08 AM.

[CMetz]

I sometimes wonder how many people have actually played tabletop... (And how many are actually any good at it). Bottom line... urbies can win in an equal BV fight (regardless of terrain) if they are in the right lance (usually 2 urbies, a fire support or area denial tank, 1 infantry, and 1 fast flanker). Urbanmechs are a great counter to the high speed, lightly armed lance. Sure, you can rush the urbie lance with your jenners, but eventually an AC10 is going to hit. When it does its going to do internal damage and blow things up.

That being said, urbie lances are generally considered cheese.

Another interesting thing- in tabletop I generally consider the LCT to be one of my light mechs of choice. Max armor, mows through infantry, fast enough to get max movement mod, and the LCT-1E variant is deadly, as all of its weapons are arm mounted and can be flipped.

Finally someone mentioned Enhanced Imaging as a benefit to clan mechs... Yeah... this was something that came from the short lived cartoon so that computer animation could be put on display. In the actual game its just a piece of fluff worked in later for protomechs.

Definitely not trying to be a troll here, but lets be honest- This game exists because of tabletop Battletech. Respect the roots. And if you guys haven't played any tabletop recently (or ever) I highly recommend doing it so you can experience what this game is really all about. Spend some time on megamek. Its an easy way to get into tabletop without any monetary investment. Look for the servers like Legends or MegaMekNet/Mekwars and get into it. You'll have a new found respect for many of the mechanics in the game. Also, you'll enjoy some mechs better and some less, or at least understand them better.

[ValdnadHartagga]

It's not about the chassis, the tech base, or even the loadout. Everyone knows...

It's all about the rolls.

[Escef]

CMetz, on 01 January 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Finally someone mentioned Enhanced Imaging as a benefit to clan mechs... Yeah... this was something that came from the short lived cartoon so that computer animation could be put on display. In the actual game its just a piece of fluff worked in later for protomechs.

If you read the rules for EI, you would find it is a slight bonus. Negates night fighting penalties, allows targeting computer style called shots at a big penalty, reduces the penalty on targeting computer called shots, and, IIRC, gives a slight bonus to piloting checks. The rules for it were in the 1st Sommerset Strikers sourcebook and Maximum Tech.