85 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 10 December 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

That Wolvie looks like he needs a diet.

The Wolverine was the bulkiest of the three to my eyes for decades.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 11 December 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-the-trebuchet/

There is nothing to defend. Most of the variants are OK at best, with the 7K being the best of the worst... except it has been already exceeded by the Shadowhawk-5M.

good thing a lot of run what we like, instead of what is "best".

I still find that even minor differences in twist rate and size, silhouette, etc, can make substantial differences to one's success as a pilot, and what works best for the masses, is not the default best for everyone, because of that. I've known guys who can configure the Treb and Shad identical, essentially, and do better in the Treb. Or design it better, by making a Treb with JJs, and still do better with the Treb. I'm a Shad fan, by far, but I am not going to narrowly define what does or doesn't work based on hard points and such alone.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 December 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

good thing a lot of run what we like, instead of what is "best".

In competitive play, it kinda matters. When it's just PUGing, it doesn't seem to matter. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal, unless it's not being fielded more often than not.

Quote

I still find that even minor differences in twist rate and size, silhouette, etc, can make substantial differences to one's success as a pilot, and what works best for the masses, is not the default best for everyone, because of that. I've known guys who can configure the Treb and Shad identical, essentially, and do better in the Treb. Or design it better, by making a Treb with JJs, and still do better with the Treb. I'm a Shad fan, by far, but I am not going to narrowly define what does or doesn't work based on hard points and such alone.

The Trebuchet and Shadowhawk generally do different things (the 7K not being indicative of the Trebuchet as whole for instance) so trying to make the Shadowhawk do things the Trebuchet does better (which is boating bigger LRMs) isn't exactly the most productive route.

The differences kinda do matter, but the hardpoints (and missile tubes) dictate the role of a mech more often than not, in conjunction with their shape and mobility profiles. Sometimes even similar/identical hardpoints isn't the difference between how you like one variant over another... it's still a subjective thing, but usually objectively quantified and qualified.

Edited by Deathlike, 11 December 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[Drunk Canuck]

Dadrick, on 10 December 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

I think the Griffin is one good looking mech! I just wish it wasn't the same size as my Victor...

The Victor is one of the smallest Assault Class BattleMech's in the lore though. Also, the Griffin is going to be insanely easy to cockpit with that head size.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 December 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

appears to be lacking srm ammo. Plenty for the streaks though!

[GRF-3M]: 2xPPC, 3xSSRM2, 300XL, DHS, Endo

The Griffin 3M has 4 Missile slots.

Spoiler

Griffin GRF-3M
Tonnage: 55
Engine: 275 XL
Top Speed: 81 kph
Max Engine Rating: 360
Armor: 320 (Standard)
Internal Structure: Standard
Weapons & Equipment:
Left Torso: Small Laser, CASE
Right Torso: LRM 20
Right Arm: ER PPC
Hardpoints:
Left Torso: 1 Energy, 1 AMS
Right Torso: 4 Missile
Right Arm: 1 Energy
Heat Sinks: 13 Double
Jump Jets: 5 (7 Max)
ECM Capable?: No
Module Slots: 2

The mech builder is Wrong.

It's why I used a SRM6 to represent = x2 Streak 2's.

No mistake =)

http://goo.gl/qPEv5O

So twin Large pulse and quad streaks

Edited by Carrioncrows, 11 December 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 11 December 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

The Griffin 3M has 4 Missile slots.

Spoiler

Griffin GRF-3M
Tonnage: 55
Engine: 275 XL
Top Speed: 81 kph
Max Engine Rating: 360
Armor: 320 (Standard)
Internal Structure: Standard
Weapons & Equipment:
Left Torso: Small Laser, CASE
Right Torso: LRM 20
Right Arm: ER PPC
Hardpoints:
Left Torso: 1 Energy, 1 AMS
Right Torso: 4 Missile
Right Arm: 1 Energy
Heat Sinks: 13 Double
Jump Jets: 5 (7 Max)
ECM Capable?: No
Module Slots: 2

The mech builder is Wrong.

It's why I used a SRM6 to represent = x2 Streak 2's.

No mistake =)

http://goo.gl/qPEv5O

So twin Large pulse and quad streaks

3 tons for quad streaks? That'll be well supplied, I reckon. I like the concept, but would prefer PPCs and more JJs.

Also never understood light armoring the "shield" arm. More armor there, the longer you have a shield.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 December 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

3 tons for quad streaks? That'll be well supplied, I reckon. I like the concept, but would prefer PPCs and more JJs.

Also never understood light armoring the "shield" arm. More armor there, the longer you have a shield.

You're right, the smart move would be to make at least one of those an ERPPC

As fro the weak arm, I know I prefer them to be maxed as well. But I can't steal armor from the legs and I can't steel armor from the arm with the weapon in it as you want to keep that maxed, so it has to come from somewhere.

The Ample SSRM ammo is for heavier mechs when you can just chainfire the SSRM's into them to rock their world.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 11 December 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 11 December 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

The smart move would be to make at least one of those an ERPPC

As fro the weak arm, I know I prefer them to be maxed as well. But I can't steal armor from the legs and I can't steel armor from the arm with the weapon in it as you want to keep that maxed, so it has to come from somewhere.

The Ample SSRM ammo is for heavier mechs when you can just chainfire the SSRM's into them to rock their world.

wonder how an unbalanced, ER PPC/ Large Pulse laser combo would work? Might play with something like this as a base for me
[GRF-3M]: ERPPC, 2xSSRM2, SRM6, LLAS, 300XL, DHS, Endo

Might as well toss BAP in the RT with the streaks, once that torso goes, you are toast anyhow.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 December 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

More over here:

http://www.nogutsnog...pic,1484.0.html

[zagibu]

Almost looks like the Wolverine has a CT energy slot that can rotate up and down.

[SgtMagor]

thx for the link CC, the Gruesome twosome (Griffin, Wolverine) coming to a drop zone near you

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 11 December 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

More over here:

http://www.nogutsnog...pic,1484.0.html

perspective skewing aside, the Wolverine is UGLY.

Those beefy arms look like they will be great for protecting the torso, though. But man the Griff is a beaut.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 December 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

perspective skewing aside, the Wolverine is UGLY.

Those beefy arms look like they will be great for protecting the torso, though. But man the Griff is a beaut.

I am a little worries that it's going to end up like the treb. Nothing but arms and CT and occasional get hit in the side torso's when they miss. Doesn't help that both the mechs have monster arms. Normally that' a good thing except when you have all of your weapons in them.

Looks wise I like it more than the griffin.

The chest plate on the Griffin really bothers me, it's just kinda blah.

Yeah I know the TRO artwork was a little like that and maybe the other variants will be better

We shall see in 6 days

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 11 December 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

I am a little worries that it's going to end up like the treb. Nothing but arms and CT and occasional get hit in the side torso's when they miss. Doesn't help that both the mechs have monster arms. Normally that' a good thing except when you have all of your weapons in them.

Looks wise I like it more than the griffin.

The chest plate on the Griffin really bothers me, it's just kinda blah.

Yeah I know the TRO artwork was a little like that and maybe the other variants will be better

We shall see in 6 days

wolverine's torso and forearms look better than the Griff. The Griffs upper arms, head and legs look way better than the Wolvie (especially that head, ugh) and more to the point, the Griff's sections all flow together well, whereas there is little aesthetic synergy to the Wolverine-.

[Karyudo ds]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 December 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

...whereas there is little aesthetic synergy to the Wolverine-.

Well it was called the "Blockhead" for a literal reason I suppose. I was always more excited over the Griffin but I'm starting to dig the Wolverine here. Sort of utilitarian and boxy but boxy is the new round.

[Bishop Steiner]

Karyudo ds, on 11 December 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Well it was called the "Blockhead" for a literal reason I suppose. I was always more excited over the Griffin but I'm starting to dig the Wolverine here. Sort of utilitarian and boxy but boxy is the new round.

If I could slap those popeye forearms onto my Griff, I would be soooooo happy. Though not as happy as if they made the 3N non-canon one into a Hero. (though the lack of JJs kinda sucks)

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Deathlike, on 11 December 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-the-trebuchet/

There is nothing to defend. Most of the variants are OK at best, with the 7K being the best of the worst... except it has been already exceeded by the Shadowhawk-5M.

Treb's are awsome. I take them into battle from time to time even today. My ac10/PPC 7K is faster than my Shawk so its still usefull. My 2 Large laser/ 3 Med laser 5J owns lights and can assist on main targets going 115 kph with JJ's. The reason most people dont use them is people are led to believe they are not good mechs when in fact they are.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alwrath, on 12 December 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Treb's are awsome. I take them into battle from time to time even today. My ac10/PPC 7K is faster than my Shawk so its still usefull. My 2 Large laser/ 3 Med laser 5J owns lights and can assist on main targets going 115 kph with JJ's. The reason most people dont use them is people are led to believe they are not good mechs when in fact they are.

while totally disagreeing on you in the other post, must agree with you on this one. I love my 7K, though admitting it's not quite on par with my Shad, and one of my ClanMates does his nastiest work in 12 man from his Treb. Just wish I could have found a build I liked on any of the others beside the 7K. (and that the poor beast wasn't uglier than all get out)

[Artgathan]

I stumbled upon the picture of the old concept art of the Wolverine and was a little bit saddened.


I must say I prefer the bulkier look from this art, as well as the more "sunken" in head.

[Deathlike]

Alwrath, on 12 December 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Treb's are awsome. I take them into battle from time to time even today. My ac10/PPC 7K is faster than my Shawk so its still usefull. My 2 Large laser/ 3 Med laser 5J owns lights and can assist on main targets going 115 kph with JJ's. The reason most people dont use them is people are led to believe they are not good mechs when in fact they are.

I was never a fan of the other non-7K buckets. Anyone who realizes that 80+% of your weapons are on your arms, you will be disabled fairly quickly. What is worse is that I like using arms to shield my mech (whenever applicable) and this does not favor my playstyle at all.