62 replies to this topic

[Vidarok]

Besides being great at obscuring the view of enemies, the weapon is weak. Why on earth would you get a flamer instead of a medium laser?

They both weigh in at 1 ton. A medium laser can operate up to 540 meters away but is most effective at 270. A flamer can operate from 90 meters. The flamer can critically hit. Go to smurfy for more specifics like damage, heat and so on.

I never consider using the flamer. I sometimes see people with them but those are usually people in CDA-2Bs because they are equipped with a flamer by default. Any other occurence is someone deliberately playing a troll or fun build.

Will PGI ever change this weapon? Or will it simply fade out of existence? Maybe the arrival of the Firestarter 'mech will make it hot again?

What do you think, is there a place for this weapon? Do you care for it?

Edited by Vidarok, 06 December 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Mechbay?

[Viges]

Its the weapon of love!!!!!!! You can take 6 flamers and go hug people till death!!!!! (yes, your death )

Edited by Viges, 06 December 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[William Mountbank]

When they put in destructible trees, maybe flamers will have a real place...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Firestarter

[Mystere]

So far, the only use I have seen for it is either intimidation or annoyance, whichever works on the enemy.

[FupDup]

I've heard from somebody that Flamers currently only generate 0.2 heat per second on their target. If this is true, that means you would need a minimum of 11 Flamers to raise the heat level on an enemy mech who is carrying 10 DHS. ...Wat.

[Vidarok]

If it could ignite stuff, you could, like the description for the Firestarter's description, cover retreats for example. Heat vision would be useless to the enemy!

The Firestarter is an interesting 'mech... I can see it having a place in MWO, as a competitor to the Jenner and Spider. Plenty of energy hardpoints. Jump jets. I really do wonder how it would look.

One can only hope.

[Henry Morgan]

They can be fun on a lighter, fast moving mech. Especially with the hot maps. See the enemy assault engaged with your team, and run up and hit them with the flamers from behind. Causing them to shut down can be a big help to the team.

[Roland]

Henry Morgan, on 06 December 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

They can be fun on a lighter, fast moving mech. Especially with the hot maps. See the enemy assault engaged with your team, and run up and hit them with the flamers from behind. Causing them to shut down can be a big help to the team.

Flamers as they exist currently aren't going to shut anyone down. They do not add significant heat to a target, especially an assault mech packing a ton of heat sinks.

If someone were to do as you describe, it basically just means they are wasting a light mech who could otherwise be contributing to the team.

[Clit Beastwood]

Vidarok, on 06 December 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

Besides being great at obscuring the view of enemies, the weapon is weak. Why on earth would you get a flamer instead of a medium laser?

They both weigh in at 1 ton. A medium laser can operate up to 540 meters away but is most effective at 270. A flamer can operate from 90 meters. The flamer can critically hit. Go to smurfy for more specifics like damage, heat and so on.

I never consider using the flamer. I sometimes see people with them but those are usually people in CDA-2Bs because they are equipped with a flamer by default. Any other occurence is someone deliberately playing a troll or fun build.

Will PGI ever change this weapon? Or will it simply fade out of existence? Maybe the arrival of the Firestarter 'mech will make it hot again?

What do you think, is there a place for this weapon? Do you care for it?

sometimes I run a spider 5d with a flamer in the arm and a large pulse in the chest - I use the flamer to blind, the ECM prevents them from targeting me, and the LPL works on their legs. I've also used the flamer to distract an enemy while i dropped an arty strike behind them. It works great with a team for "hey look over here!" purposes.

[Sable Dove]

The only time I've ever used flamers semi-seriously was cramming nine of them on my HBK-4P. I actually got two kills in one game with it. Granted, they were basically dead by the time I got to them, but I sure finished them off.

[Clit Beastwood]

Sable Dove, on 06 December 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

The only time I've ever used flamers semi-seriously was cramming nine of them on my HBK-4P. I actually got two kills in one game with it. Granted, they were basically dead by the time I got to them, but I sure finished them off.

ha! 3 friends and I did a 4man of flame jenners and managed to *finally* kill a 9mlas hunchback on caustic. Well actually I think he killed himself, but we made him die

[Deathlike]

I often wonder how Flamers were tested when their #s or functionality was adjusted. Same could be said for NARC.

If we're trying to compare with the stock BJ-1X build, then sure, Flamers work.

Unfortunately, reality says everyone with clue is using DHS and that whatever "logical testing" done by PGI is totally faulty.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I've found that you need at least 4 flamers to be effective vs lights, but any more than 2 equipped and you're basically committing suicide. The flamer should be an AoE Cone weapon that smokes lights imo. In reality... not so much.

[Deathlike]

lockwoodx, on 06 December 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

I've found that you need at least 4 flamers to be effective vs lights, but any more than 2 equipped and you're basically committing suicide. The flamer should be an AoE Cone weapon that smokes lights imo. In reality... not so much.

It's called a self-BBQ. Flamers excel at those.

[Greyboots]

Apart from novelty value? I think the answer is no. If you could choose your loadout based on which map you were on? Well sure, but that isn't the case.

Taking flamers is currently too hit and miss because they are near-on useless on cold maps.

[JimboFBX]

I'd prefer they stay a novelty, they are rather distracting. I have a blackjack firebat with 4x flamers and it's actually somewhat successful and can take out heavies and assaults that run hot. The only issue is that once the flames come out I become a focus fire target

it works really well with teammates. if a mech accidentally shuts down it's toast. Flanders cause weapons to have bonus heat, so it's more likely to catch people off guard when they try to alpha you

Edited by JimboFBX, 06 December 2013 - 10:09 PM.

[dal10]

i have effectively used one to blind an enemy and make dueling difficult to impossible. but that is their only real use.

[MustrumRidcully]

The answer might have to be no.

The current statistics are still terrible. The best use for Flamers might be to block another mech's vision.

If they make the Flamer better at heating up mechs, I forsee only problems. Heating up another mech and shutting it down leads to stunlocking. Ask any PvP experienced player in MMOs about their opinion on stunlocks.

Maybe there is a niche, as long as the "heats-enemy-up" niche remains underplayed and the weapon is designated a short range high damage weapon. It's has heavy as the ML, but has only 1/3 of the range. So maybe make it deal twice the DPS and 1.5 the HPS (heat per second) of a Medium Laser, keep its crit-seeking bonus and the little bit of "heating up" effect it inflicts currently on the enemy. Now it's a scary weapon at close range but still difficult and risky to use.

Alternate Tweaks.

Spoiler

- If the Flamer is to keep raising the enemies heat: Give it a high basic heat generation (say, 1 HPS on the target), but the moment the enemy mech reached a higher heat level then your own mech, the heat generation is lowered considerably (say, 0.2 HPS on the target). The only way to use it to overheat other mechs would be to overheat yourself. Multiple Flamers can't stack in this scenario, otherwise you just need a pair of mechs to stunlock.
- If we just want heat to somehow fit into the Flamer mechanics, without actually raising the targets heat. Make the Flamer deal more damage the hotter your own mech is. At no heat, it starts with Medium Laser DPS and goes up with heat, close to shutdown, it reaches Large Laser DPS.

[OneEyed Jack]

It was in TT, so it got included. Some people like to play with it for S&G's, but I see no reason for people to constantly worry about it not being a competitive weapon. Some things really can be "just for flavor."

Personally, I tried the blinding my opponent while I chewed him up at short range approach. The problem is, it tend to block your own view of the target, making it rather tough to pinpoint your attacks.