252 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

I'll say one more thing. (Because this thread really needs to go away now that skirmish is here)

Units and groups that use a modicum of military tactics will always beat the "blob and line up" tactics.
I love Terra Therma when I've got a team that likes to use strategy.

Team derp inevitably runs into the caldera and controls the high ground (typically a good strategy) 4-5 of our heavier mechs swing around to their side while the rest of our team holds their attention making them think we're Team Derp 2 just peeking and poking at the entrance, bottlenecking for easy kills. Meanwhile we flank and crush their support mechs easily and our decoys then push up and we squeeze them.

[CyclonerM]

IMHO the cap victory in assault is not bad itself.. Just that rushing to the base and successfully capping the base after 1 minute after the start is quite boring if you do it many times..

But if it is our last chance to win i am totally fine. No wonders i prefere Conquest over assaults. Now Skirmish is my second favourite. Because i do not like objective gamemodes? Neg, because in Assault there is too much negativity.

I wonder why no one ever complained in World of Tanks when playing the very same game mode.

[RichAC]

CyclonerM, on 19 December 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

IMHO the cap victory in assault is not bad itself.. Just that rushing to the base and successfully capping the base after 1 minute after the start is quite boring if you do it many times..

But if it is our last chance to win i am totally fine. No wonders i prefere Conquest over assaults. Now Skirmish is my second favourite. Because i do not like objective gamemodes? Neg, because in Assault there is too much negativity.

I wonder why no one ever complained in World of Tanks when playing the very same game mode.

capping in one minute? haha ....to be honest I have yet to see that in two months of playing. I also like assault better then skirmish.

Yesterday i got upset with some guys who were calling cap warriors stupid and wouldn't stop, and then started complaining when a team was capping our base. meanwhile i managed to go back to the base in my slow 48kph dd-c atlas by myself without my lance, who was too busy complainging, and down 4 guys right on our base next to the oil dril when they had 2 seconds left. We won the match and they were still complaining and yapping about it.

But those are the matches I really enjoy the most. or vice versa, if i'm on the enemy base, fighting all of them coming at me. talk about action and gratifcation if winning.

I think its a little silly to put turrets on the bases. There are turrets on bases in LoL, because capping is the ONLY way to win! Cap wins are so rare in mwo that they will only be even more rare now, lights are not going to go touch the base to divide forces either if they are gong to take damage from a turret, Noone will hobble there by themselves with almost no health and have a chance, etc. etc..

IMO, we have skirmish mode now, there is no need anymore for turrets. Unless you want two skirmish modes, which is what we have most of the time anyway.

If people think capping is so easy try it for yourself. I have run with all light lances and 9 times out of 10 we fail in the same way i've described. its the same as peole complaining about meta builds, but then are horrible when they try the same builds themselves. Stop dumbing down the game already.

Edited by RichAC, 23 December 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[Sandpit]

CyclonerM, on 19 December 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

IMHO the cap victory in assault is not bad itself.. Just that rushing to the base and successfully capping the base after 1 minute after the start is quite boring if you do it many times..

Physically impossible.

[ice trey]

To everyone that says "I hate that mode"

You are able to choose to drop in a particular mode.

It's your own damned fault for not clicking that button.

Don't deny other people fun just because you can't be arsed to spend an extra 3 seconds to select something from a drop-down menu once every time you open your client.

[Bagheera]

OneEyed Jack, on 11 December 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Can you imagine if the players were payed based on specific individual actions they took during the game (passes, TDs, tackles, blocks, etc...)?

Might have some torqued-off players, no?

Well, they sure as hell aren't payed equally.

[Lyoto Machida]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 17 December 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I've got a feeling I'll be playing conquest a lot in the future ... I really don't like the idea of running around Alpine looking for a powered down spider griefing or trying to preserve his precious Kill-Death ratio.

Also, once a team gets significantly up in kills, why not just ball up in an easily defensible area and hold that position? Once you're up in the score, there's no reason to push the fight.

It might be the best game mode ever, in an arena or other confined area, but I have a feeling that after the first engagement, it's going to be even more boring than capping on assault.

Do you even Skirmish, bro?

Seriously though...at least TRY the game mode before you write it off. Skirmish is very entertaining and is not 100% "looking for powered down Spiders for 10 minutes" like all the Skirmish haters will have you believe.

You'll actually see parts of the map you rarely saw before in other modes...true story.

It's your game though...feel free to play whatever modes you like. It's just frustrating when you get all these (Skirmish) virgins (not referring to you) going around telling people they shouldn't have sex (Skirmish) for reasons they personally don't know about.

I still have yet to see a single screencap of a powered down mech running out the timer...kind of telling when it's been a week already, no? Yet all the haters keep spouting their BS about "CoD TDM modes" and whatnot...

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Lyoto Machida, on 23 December 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

... snipped for brevity ... I actually agree with most of your points ...

Skirmish mode is interesting, and the post you quoted was made before the patch, so it was speculation.

When I PUG, I almost always drop random ... I've probably played Skirmish mode a dozen times in the past week, and only twice did it end in a search for the last powered down or AFK 'mech.

I still prefer conquest or assault because it is easier for me to figure out what the enemy might be doing. I'll probably keep playing on random because it is challenging, but of the three game modes, skirmish is the least interesting to me because it does not have alternate objectives.

[Roland]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 23 December 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

skirmish is the least interesting to me because it does not have alternate objectives.

But you are making the mistake of thinking that "kill enemy force" is as simplistic an objective as "stand in red square".

Capping has no depth. There is nothing to it. There is one way to accomplish it.

But kiling the enemy team is actually a complex task. There are an infinite set of different alternative tactical options by which you could accomplish said task.

This is why it's so silly to suggest that "all you do is kill the enemy team". Because unless you are playing against moutbreathers, they are probably going to try and STOP you from killing them.

[TehSBGX]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems OP is one of those guys that Elo dumps? I get why people do it, lose on purpose then work back up Elo to get where you should be. But isn't that behavior sorta abusive and kills the spirit of the game?

[RichAC]

Roland, on 23 December 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

But you are making the mistake of thinking that "kill enemy force" is as simplistic an objective as "stand in red square".

Capping has no depth. There is nothing to it. There is one way to accomplish it.

But kiling the enemy team is actually a complex task. There are an infinite set of different alternative tactical options by which you could accomplish said task.

This is why it's so silly to suggest that "all you do is kill the enemy team". Because unless you are playing against moutbreathers, they are probably going to try and STOP you from killing them.

well the other game modes are basically skirmish,  plus capping.  so i'd have to disagree about your complexity comment. I feel its totally the opposite.  I play on any mode all the time though.   I don't need to avoid one game mode because I think I lose more on it...I like the challenge of conquest and assault.

Edited by RichAC, 24 December 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[RichAC]

TehSBGX, on 23 December 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems OP is one of those guys that Elo dumps? I get why people do it, lose on purpose then work back up Elo to get where you should be. But isn't that behavior sorta abusive and kills the spirit of the game?

your very wrong. I have no idea what would even make you think this since pgi keeps this info private. I would prefer if they made at least stats public. I find you suspect and think maybe you are actually talking about yourself...lol You obviously have never played a match with me? I don't recall your name but you will find i always play to win.

I find sync'n more abusive. and I don't avoid game modes i lose at, or play them on purpose with the hopes of losing. I play any and don't find one mode harder then any others. Your suspect. Or maybe thats the excuse you give yourself for avoiding a challenge.

The reason most people, and I'm assuming yourself as well, have losing records on assault and especially conquest, is because it takes more strategy that they can't be bothered with.

Edited by RichAC, 24 December 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

RichAC, on 24 December 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

your very wrong. I have no idea what would even make you think this since pgi keeps this info private. I would prefer if they made at least stats public. I find you suspect and think maybe you are actually talking about yourself...lol You obviously have never played a match with me? I don't recall your name but you will find i always play to win.

I find sync'n more abusive. and I don't avoid game modes i lose at, or play them on purpose with the hopes of losing. I play any and don't find one mode harder then any others. Your suspect. Or maybe thats the excuse you give yourself for avoiding a challenge.

The reason most people, and I'm assuming yourself as well, have losing records on assault and especially conquest, is because it takes more strategy that they can't be bothered with.

Stats should be made legal...not sure why they aren't. I'm by no means a great player but I'm not a bad one either. Although in my defense, my stats are probably skewed a bit lower since I own almost 60 mechs, try to get to at least basic on all of them (preferable Elite/Master) and try to play all playstyles. Some guys just drive meta jumpsnipers for months at a time...no idea how they don't get bored (even if they're winning). For reference, I have 38 games in a CTF-3D, 2 games ever in any HGN variant...only really focused on jumpsniping this past weekend but it's fairly easy if you have a decent FPS background.

Strangely enough, I have a 0.91 W/L in Assault and a 1.23 W/L in Conquest...guess I'm one of those dreaded "cappers," even though I'm usually in a heavy or assault. Go figure...

[MischiefSC]

I've got to be around 100 drops on Skirmish and have still never seen the 'powered down spider'. I've seen people try it a total of 4 times - each time they were found and killed. I saw it far, far more commonly on Assault. Then again most people who play Skirmish are there for hardcore mode and are less likely to be scrubs so that make skew results.

I do so a lot of close games. It's uncommon to have 12-4, out of ~100 drops I've seen less than 10 12-2 or less. most are 12-8 or 12-10. I've also had less than 5 'quick' matches. They have been almost universally slow, tactical, 'thinking mans shooter' matches. Without tying everyone to one of two points and letting either team force the other to come fight at a specific time and place you need to play a lot smarter.

I've also seen way, way less meta. Or more to the point I've seen way less meta doing well. Almost every match has several brawls and a lot of hit-and-run, plus a lot of changing position, making the sniper approach far more difficult to pull of - I can almost guarantee that you'll have a medium mech with a streak + laser build in your grill every single match and if you're PPCs and an AC they'll devour you and you'll be too slow to get alway. Shawks, Griffins and Wolverines make up almost 1/3rd of my match populations in almost every game.

Have also seen a huge rise in LRMs being used and used effectively - they're area denial weapons. Without the crutch caps letting you easily control the other teams movement and position you need good methods of forcing people into cover. Also with brawling hugely on the rise you get people holding targets for long stretches. LRMs are far more viable because anyone attempting to camp under cover is just begging to be flanked and killed. The best cover in Skirmish is a steady hail of well aimed firepower from you and your team.

The only win in Skirmish is the hard win. If that's not your thing or you like the more consistent pre-set win conditions (it's their own fault for not camping the start location every single match, right? That's hardcore tactics!) then stay in Conquest and Assault. If anyone gives you {Scrap} there for capping tell them to come to Skirmish - it's got a bit of a learning curve (unlearning? Certainly a lot of bad habits from Assault to break) but it's been almost a year since I consistently heard people saying positive stuff in chat, pugs coordinating and using teamwork like this. For those who were not impressed with Assault/Conquest Skirmish is providing the best MW:O experience we've had in a long time.

[Turist0AT]

FPS game modes in a Mech Sim might be a bad idea.

[RichAC]

Lyoto Machida, on 24 December 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Stats should be made legal...not sure why they aren't. I'm by no means a great player but I'm not a bad one either. Although in my defense, my stats are probably skewed a bit lower since I own almost 60 mechs, try to get to at least basic on all of them (preferable Elite/Master) and try to play all playstyles. Some guys just drive meta jumpsnipers for months at a time...no idea how they don't get bored (even if they're winning). For reference, I have 38 games in a CTF-3D, 2 games ever in any HGN variant...only really focused on jumpsniping this past weekend but it's fairly easy if you have a decent FPS background.
Strangely enough, I have a 0.91 W/L in Assault and a 1.23 W/L in Conquest...guess I'm one of those dreaded "cappers," even though I'm usually in a heavy or assault. Go figure...

ya i've been playing the same mech alot, that definitely helps your stats for sure, compared to someone who tries new things. Alot of people are very competitive, me included.

But I think its really great that PGI has seperate stats for each mech.

To be honest, I would still play the game if there was only one mech and one loadout for everyone...lol Thats how quake and counterstrike were...and to be honest its why no games will ever be as balanced, and why those games will always be more "sportlike" then any game in history.

But trying different loadouts and mechs, and having different weight classes for different teamwork and strategies, definitely keep the game more interetsing and is very fun.

Edited by RichAC, 26 December 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[Levon K]

Run Conquest mode. It is the superior mode.

[RichAC]

MischiefSC, on 25 December 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

I've got to be around 100 drops on Skirmish and have still never seen the 'powered down spider'. I've seen people try it a total of 4 times - each time they were found and killed. I saw it far, far more commonly on Assault. Then again most people who play Skirmish are there for hardcore mode and are less likely to be scrubs so that make skew results.

Thats amazing, because just yesterday when playing with my unit we had to wait for the timer to run down, while hunting down some jenner for 7 mins. The server was spewing insults at him telling him to go fight and suicide, everyone was like lets check this scrubs damage at the end of the match. I'm sure they were all in shock to learn he did 500 dmg got two kills, and hey had no right to say anything because he did take some pot shots at us including right before it ended.

That guy should suicide for noone! . Just like noone should have to step off a base for anyone in assault or conquest. Who cares how long the match takes, skirmishes take the longest for that exact reason. Thats the game mode you guys wanted, don't be mad cause you died, live with it and let it play out. Granted it doesn't happen all the time, but out of 100 matches? ya ok buddy...

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"I do so a lot of close games. It's uncommon to have 12-4, out of ~100 drops I've seen less than 10 12-2 or less. most are 12-8 or 12-10. I've also had less than 5 'quick' matches. They have been almost universally slow, tactical, 'thinking mans shooter' matches. Without tying everyone to one of two points and letting either team force the other to come fight at a specific time and place you need to play a lot smarter"

I was playing with some guys on the teamspeak server i play with that were from a different unit... late christmas eve. They started getting very upset and left in frustration, of course all they were playing is skirmish, and we got wiped 3 matches in a row where our team didn't get a single kill twice 12-0 and once 12-1. I kid you not, It happens, i just shrug it off. Premades matter alot more in skirmish, compared to conquest or assault it seems, contrary to popular belief, Mainly because skirmish is the most popular mode unfortunately lol.

It was the hardest night I had in a while. I was telling them that not many people are online I was assuming, so the competition was alot rougher. Lets just hope thats not a sign of the future for this game...the more people the more fair the matches become naturally.

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I've also seen way, way less meta. Or more to the point I've seen way less meta doing well. Almost every match has several brawls and a lot of hit-and-run, plus a lot of changing position, making the sniper approach far more difficult to pull of - I can almost guarantee that you'll have a medium mech with a streak + laser build in your grill every single match and if you're PPCs and an AC they'll devour you and you'll be too slow to get alway. Shawks, Griffins and Wolverines make up almost 1/3rd of my match populations in almost every game.

I usually always go with my best brawling mech in skirmish. Thats what it comes down to most, I agree with you there. I love my Atlas-K with gauss, but in skirmish i most always prefer my DDC. Because as you said, I'm going to get alot of swarms in my face. And they are definitely not going to be mediums like you implied, they are going to be big heavies and assaults! haha

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Have also seen a huge rise in LRMs being used and used effectively - they're area denial weapons. Without the crutch caps letting you easily control the other teams movement and position you need good methods of forcing people into cover. Also with brawling hugely on the rise you get people holding targets for long stretches. LRMs are far more viable because anyone attempting to camp under cover is just begging to be flanked and killed. The best cover in Skirmish is a steady hail of well aimed firepower from you and your team

Yes i have seen way more LRM's since about 2 or 3 patches ago. Its just the new fad. But, in the few 12 man assault matches I have seen, LRMS are not as overpowering, because most of the teams are smart enough to have ECMs and well placed to cover their team, which most times makes LRMS completely useless. LRM spam is a pug phenomena. Only works like that against noob teams.

Skirmish would be the easiest mode to shield your team in with ecm, compared to the other game modes, since most teams are in a giant deathball huddle. Caps actually make it easier to LRM and airstrike on enemies, since they are standing in bases to try and cap with no cover, and the team is usually more divided and each lance needs ecm. So I don't know what your talking about there.

Quote

The only win in Skirmish is the hard win. If that's not your thing or you like the more consistent pre-set win conditions (it's their own fault for not camping the start location every single match, right? That's hardcore tactics!) then stay in Conquest and Assault. If anyone gives you {Scrap} there for capping tell them to come to Skirmish - it's got a bit of a learning curve (unlearning? Certainly a lot of bad habits from Assault to break) but it's been almost a year since I consistently heard people saying positive stuff in chat, pugs coordinating and using teamwork like this. For those who were not impressed with Assault/Conquest Skirmish is providing the best MW:O experience we've had in a long time.

I don't know what you mean by "the hard win" lol I guess you think cap wins on assault are easy? They are definitely not. I'd like to see your stats to see your w/l in the different gamemodes.

Conquest and Assault will have all the same tactics found in skirmish. The difference is the added complexity with the different ways to win besides kills.

Assault and conquest require even more team coordination and teamwork against an equally good team. Your teamates matter more in skirmish, but its easier to solo drop, because its basically the same strategy every time and is more about aim and dmg.

Assault is basically skirmish with bases, The difference is, its not just about dmg, aim, armor and tactics. Its all those things plus defense and strategy, which I guess many people with adhd and no patience have trouble with. Its about sacrificing your dmg and kills to help your team win a victory, which I guess most people are just too selfish for. Its about listening to others and working as a team to move forces around to the different strategic locations of the map when needed for defensive or offensive objectives, which I guess most people find boring like chess. I feel the opposite and find it the most gratifying and motivating.

In short, Skirmish to me is just a dumb'd down assault or conquest. Skirmish is the practice mode where you just practice your aim, to prepare for real competitive clan battles, imo, assault or especially conquest which actually require the most team planning and strategy. PGI even called it skirmish for a reason instead of TDM: http://www.merriam-w...ionary/skirmish (brief, unplanned, minor fight = kiddy stuff.)

The being said i do play practice mode myself too for a change of pace. I always keep it on any.

Edited by RichAC, 26 December 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Ransack, on 11 December 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

The reason is simple. Money. You need money to upgrade. You get money based on damage done/kills/assists. Quick caps = low payout.

Yet, a quick win is 25K and getting in more matches over time rather than running down that last mech etc means more money.

Also, salvage for all 12 mechs is typically 10-13K. Also winning by cap in Conquest means you get max resources and thus more c-bills.

Have you done the math, or are you just assuming?

[Ransack]

Nick Makiaveli, on 26 December 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Yet, a quick win is 25K and getting in more matches over time rather than running down that last mech etc means more money.

Also, salvage for all 12 mechs is typically 10-13K. Also winning by cap in Conquest means you get max resources and thus more c-bills.

Have you done the math, or are you just assuming?

Wow, a little late to this party aren't you. Here's the thing.No one is talking about conquest. A question was asked, and I answered based on my experience. I personally do not sit there with a pen and paper, but I do see totals like 189 K for killing all and significantly less for caps. Perhaps over time it does average out. Who cares! perception is a cruel *****. By your logic, running in and commiting suicide by running into a pack alone and dying in two minutes, exiting and doing the same thing in another mech rinse/repeat is profitable too. Do whatever works for you. I don't shivaget.