46 replies to this topic

[asdbnmrty]

What I wanted:
Lance Leader: Alright all, Company Leader has marked E4 for attack. Lance 1 scout ahead, all others form up on me.
Lance 1: Spotted enemy mechs at E4. Catapult and Atlas have stacked LRMs and providing indirect fire on main battle line. Jaeger has Light ACs providing direct fire support on main battle... wait, I also see a Raven spotting with a TAG up on the ridgeline. If we come in through E5, we'll come in from thier blind spot.
Lance Leader: Great, Lance 1 activate ECM and get it close to those LRM mechs. Lance 2, move past E5 to flank right as marked on battlegrid. Lance 3, your with me. I'll charge in and draw thier attention, I'll need you behind me as fire support.
Lance 1: EMC on, moving into position.
Lance 2: I see it on battlegrid, moving in.
Lance 3: I'm behind you, lead the way.
*Lance makes makes thier approach
Lance Leader: I see them. *fires PPCs* GOT IT! ATLAS side torso out, his LRMs are down.
Lance 3: Catapult is targeting us. Missle lock!
Lance Leader: Tighten up on me, activate AMS. Lance 1 get on that Catapult and jam his targeting!
*AC rounds crash into hull*
Lance Leader: I've lost weapon systems! *explosions* I can't see sh**. Lance 3 lay some fire on the Jaeger, I'm getting to cover!
*Lance 3 unloads a hail of laser fire
Lance 3: I'm overheating!
Lance Leader: Flush it with coolent and keep firing! I'm almost to cover!
*CRITICAL DAMAGE
Lance Leader: AGHHHH UGH.
Lance 2: I'm behind him, lining up an alpha... YES rear hit! He's down, he's down!
Lance 1: Catapult is making a run for it! He jumpjetted over the hill.
Lance Leader: I dont have LOS, target him.
Lance 1: Targeted.
Lance 2: There he is, I got missle lock!
Lance Leader: Me too! Fire, fire, fire!
*Enemy destroyed
Lance Leader: Great job everyone, Company Leader is requestion fire supp....
*INCOMING MISSLES
Lance Leader: What?
Lance 1: The Raven has you TAGed! I don't have a clear shot, Lance Leader get to cover!
Lance Leader: I'm too far! AMS was knocked out in our approach. I can't... I...
Lance 3: EJECT LANCE LEADER EJECT!
Lance Leader: AGRRGHRHRH
*Explosions*

What I got:
Lance Leader: No one is Company Leader. I guess we go over there. Lance 1 scout ahead. All others on me.
Lance 1: I see then! *fires PPC*
Lance Leader: What are you doing! Don't fire, you'll give away our approach path! What mechs are they?
Lance 1: I dunno, I just took a pot shot as I ran by.
Lance Leader: Lance 2, flank right at designated are marked on battlegrid!
Lance 2: What, where, how? I marked it like right on top of the hill.
Lance Leader: Sorry I'm having a hard time marking exactly. Hard to click. Just go around and flank.
Lance 2: What like you want me to go around the hill? From the left or right? Or I can go over the hill. You know what, forget that, you guys gonna kill before I can get damage off and get assist credit. I need those c-bills been trying to get a new mech and grinding for 2 weeks now.
*Runs straight at enemy*
Lance Leader: Lance 3 form up on me, provide fire support as we approach!
Lance 3: Dude, I've been shooting this whole time.
*Incoming missles*
Lance Leader: Get in close, our combine AMS fires will shot most of the missles down!
Lance 3: You have AMS bro? So useless, just get behind a hill noob.
Lance Leader: Lance 1, get in close with ECM and jam those launchers!
Lance 1: Dude I'm a light, I'm not getting in that close they gonna ******* up.
Lance Leader: Lance 3 I see that steam comming off your mech. Flush heat with coolent and keep up the supressive fire!
Lance 3: Bro I dont have modules, been playing for a month and barely have enough GXP to basic masteries this mech. And I already told you, been trying to save C-bills to buy new mech for 2 weeks, not gonna blow it on useless single heat dump.
Lance Leader: Lance 2 get out of my line of fire! Your in the way! Lance 3 get out of my line of fire your in the way! Brovo Lance get out of my line of fire your in the way. Everyone get out of the line of fire your in the way! This is a big cluster f***!
*SRMs smash into hull*
Lance Leader: Lost 1% armor, I'm OK! Lance 1 keep that TAG on the Atlas and I'll get missle lock.
Lance 1: I don't have TAG, removed it for a heatsink so I can shot more PPC.
Lance Leader: Focus fire on target "C"!
Lance 2: One what?
Lance Leader: On "C", the Catapult!
Lance 3: Which one, there are 3.
Lance Leader: That one... the one over.. forget it weapons free just shoot anything you see.
*Your base is under attack!
Lance Leader: WTF!
*Dies in a hail of AC gunfire... no other weapons... just ACs.
Lance Leader: Ughh.
*Logs out and goes to website
-NEW MC SALE
-Community Warfare will take 6 months to fully be integrated... which we will start sometime next year!
-Clan mechs? We are working on it! Pre-Order now and get early access or wait 3 months to be released for C-Bills.... 1 at a time... every month. Tune in after 4 months... for the announcement of when they will eventually be release!
-New module cool module... 10% movespeed when walking up hills! *cough*
-Balance changes: Small lasers increase 0.000000001 damage. PPCs generate 10 additional heat beyond shooting 0. Flamers now have ghost heat when firing more then 12.
-We are releasing UI 2.0 soon! Do the same thing you did before, but in a different format. 1 year in the making!
-4th person view has been added in with aim assist! This will help new players understand how the movement of thier mech works!

[Lostdragon]

Join a clan and play 12 mans and you will get what you want.

[Eboli]

You forgot to write in the script that a third of your forces scattered in different directions before entering melee and you got alphaed in the back by a friendly before the fight began...

Cheers!
Eboli

[SneakyBastd]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Join a clan and play 12 mans and you will get what you want.

Lol. Because 12 assault poptarts per side spamming airstrikes is what everyone hoped this game would be.

[Lostdragon]

SneakyBastd, on 09 December 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Lol. Because 12 assault poptarts per side spamming airstrikes is what everyone hoped this game would be.

Well at least the poptarts are more organized.

Edited by Lostdragon, 15 December 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[Adiuvo]

SneakyBastd, on 09 December 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Lol. Because 12 assault poptarts per side spamming airstrikes is what everyone hoped this game would be.

Someone doesn't play 12s

Edited by Adiuvo, 09 December 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[Sandpit]

who says you have to play in 12mans to play with groups?

[Navy Sixes]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Join a clan and play 12 mans and you will get what you want.

Really? From what I hear, you'll get a lot more of this...

asdbnmrty, on 09 December 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Lance 1: I don't have TAG, removed it for a heatsink so I can shot more PPC.

Out of curiosity, OP, which one were you?

[Lostdragon]

Tycho von Gagern, on 09 December 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

Really? From what I hear, you'll get a lot more of this...

Out of curiosity, OP, which one were you?

Join a team and see for yourself. 12s is vastly different than pugging, especially when you play the best teams.

[Sandpit]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Join a team and see for yourself. 12s is vastly different than pugging, especially when you play the best teams.

Again, I ask why do you propose that someone have to play in a 12 man? There's plenty of smaller groups to play with and get much better teamwork usually

[Lostdragon]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Again, I ask why do you propose that someone have to play in a 12 man? There's plenty of smaller groups to play with and get much better teamwork usually

Because when you play in 12s you see a level of coordination you will not see in a pug, especially not in the current state of the game where at most you and your group are 1/3 of the team and who knows what the other team is doing. Playing full 12v12 is like playing a different game compared to playing in pug matches. In a pug match you are going to have a random mix of mechs and so will the other team. In 12s you will be playing on and against teams that are made up of a specific composition of highly specialized mechs designed to work in concert with one another. You will also see tactics that pug groups are rarely if ever able to execute due to the lack of leadership and/or followership and communication in pugs.

Edited by Lostdragon, 09 December 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[Navy Sixes]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Join a team and see for yourself. 12s is vastly different than pugging, especially when you play the best teams.

Maybe someday, when I have the time to commit. I certainly would rather be working with some sort of team for CW (whenever that happens). At this point, while there are no consequences for losing, I feel it's a good time for me to work on my solo "fundamentals." Right now, solo dropping into the PUG, I'm cutting my teeth figuring out how to take on prems on my own. I figure that if I get into a team at some point, that will serve as an excellent foundation upon which to stack the development of integrated team tactics.

I was responding to the OP's complaint that he seemed to be expecting teams to field a variety of complementing and overlapping weapon systems, and conversely to every other thread I've seen (many from members of teams) asserting that competitive level builds are largely cookie-cutter meta-chasers. To be frank, this doesn't sound very appealing to me. Are you saying that's not true? That's something I've honestly never heard before, and it gives me hope.

As for asking which team member the OP was, I guess I was trying to find a "humility check" in their post. If the OP was upset that there was no company commander, why didn't they take command? If they felt the lance commander wasn't very good, did they try their hand at taking lance command themselves in the next match? Above all else, I really can't stand people who ride the new players too hard. We all sucked when we started out, and it sounds like a lot of the teammates the OP described didn't quite know what was going on, yet. It's not fair to expect people to drop in and perform like seasoned veterans from the start in any game.

And of course, I call overall shenanigans. The inter-team interactions described by the OP could never have happened in the PUG, unless they dropped with senior members of the North American Speed-Typist's Association. You'd be lucky to get an eighth of that kind of interaction in PUG chat. As one PUG teammate once so eloquently put it: "I'm sorry, I can't type and die at the same time."

Finally, the post devolves into a catalog of things PGI has done wrong. Not that I necessarily disagree with all of their points, but it's really offering nothing I can't get in a dozen other threads floating around in here.

[Lostdragon]

Tycho von Gagern, on 09 December 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

I was responding to the OP's complaint that he seemed to be expecting teams to field a variety of complementing and overlapping weapon systems, and conversely to every other thread I've seen (many from members of teams) asserting that competitive level builds are largely cookie-cutter meta-chasers. To be frank, this doesn't sound very appealing to me. Are you saying that's not true? That's something I've honestly never heard before, and it gives me hope.

It really depends on who you play against, I've seen a very wide array of team composition in 12s. I haven't had time to do many lately, but you will see everything from teams with 8 HGN-733Cs to a group screwing around and dropping 12 Locusts to teams that are very balanced with 3 of each class of mech. In the leagues there are tonnage limits that teams must adhere to so those lead to a wide variety of drop decks. The upcoming tonnage restrictions along with the ability to create private matches where you can set custom rules should make that more widespread as it will require some teams to field less assaults. I don't think the specific mechs you see in 12s will change much, just the ratio.

[Sandpit]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Because when you play in 12s you see a level of coordination you will not see in a pug, especially not in the current state of the game where at most you and your group are 1/3 of the team and who knows what the other team is doing. Playing full 12v12 is like playing a different game compared to playing in pug matches. In a pug match you are going to have a random mix of mechs and so will the other team. In 12s you will be playing on and against teams that are made up of a specific composition of highly specialized mechs designed to work in concert with one another. You will also see tactics that pug groups are rarely if ever able to execute due to the lack of leadership and/or followership and communication in pugs.

I get that. I asked why anyone implies the game is only "competitive" while playing in a 12 man and suggesting that a player should use that method to drop into the game as being the only "competitive" way to play the game?

Somewhere along the way it seems a schism developed for 12 mans. The players that drop in 12 mans seem to think it's the only way to have a "competitive" game and that this small niche of the player base should be what's used to determine balance in the game. I'm pointing at you individually but you can see it all throughout the forums. The majority of "op" threads are originating from 12 man groups while the rest of the player base disagrees for the most part. Naybe the 12 mans should realize they are a top tier level of play but also a very small portion of the population. I'd suggest dropping into PUGs once in a while to get a real perspective on how the game is balanced.
PGI cannot, and should not in my opinion, balance the game based on the opinions of a very small portion of the player population. It doesn't work like that.

One of the latest bandwagons was arty strikes.
"They're op"
"No they aren't. They're rarely even used"
"Well they're op in 12 mans because they're coordinated."
"So that means because they're being used in unison and great coordination they're op?"
"Yea"
"So the other 95% of players that don't play in the environment should have them nerfed because they're "op" when used with great teamwork and coordination?"
"Yea"
"......"

and that is almost verbatim how that conversation played out in that particular thread. Can you see how that isn't op?

[Navy Sixes]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

It really depends on who you play against, I've seen a very wide array of team composition in 12s. I haven't had time to do many lately, but you will see everything from teams with 8 HGN-733Cs to a group screwing around and dropping 12 Locusts to teams that are very balanced with 3 of each class of mech. In the leagues there are tonnage limits that teams must adhere to so those lead to a wide variety of drop decks. The upcoming tonnage restrictions along with the ability to create private matches where you can set custom rules should make that more widespread as it will require some teams to field less assaults. I don't think the specific mechs you see in 12s will change much, just the ratio.

That sounds like fun. I'm less concerned with who I play against than I am with who I play with. I'm all for learning how to cooperate with teammates on the field, but I'm really worried about getting into a team in which I'd be told to drive mech x with build y. If that's the case, I'd rather pass on that good teamwork and run the mechs I love in the PUG. If running the mechs I love in 12-man means always losing, then again, I'd rather take my chances running solo.

[Lostdragon]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

I get that. I asked why anyone implies the game is only "competitive" while playing in a 12 man and suggesting that a player should use that method to drop into the game as being the only "competitive" way to play the game?

Somewhere along the way it seems a schism developed for 12 mans. The players that drop in 12 mans seem to think it's the only way to have a "competitive" game and that this small niche of the player base should be what's used to determine balance in the game. I'm pointing at you individually but you can see it all throughout the forums. The majority of "op" threads are originating from 12 man groups while the rest of the player base disagrees for the most part. Naybe the 12 mans should realize they are a top tier level of play but also a very small portion of the population. I'd suggest dropping into PUGs once in a while to get a real perspective on how the game is balanced.
PGI cannot, and should not in my opinion, balance the game based on the opinions of a very small portion of the player population. It doesn't work like that.

One of the latest bandwagons was arty strikes.
"They're op"
"No they aren't. They're rarely even used"
"Well they're op in 12 mans because they're coordinated."
"So that means because they're being used in unison and great coordination they're op?"
"Yea"
"So the other 95% of players that don't play in the environment should have them nerfed because they're "op" when used with great teamwork and coordination?"
"Yea"
"......"

and that is almost verbatim how that conversation played out in that particular thread. Can you see how that isn't op?

I play pug matches a lot, more than I play 12s, but I enjoy 12s more for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. When it comes to balance, I'd say pugs are the worst place to look at game balance. I'm not a phenomenal player, I have good and bad matches. I have been accused of hacking and I sometimes have sub 100 damage matches if I make a mistake or something, even in pugs. Based on my experience I would say I am of the opposite opinion on balancing the game at the top, but I don't want to derail this thread as that subject has been beaten to death many times over.

Tycho von Gagern, on 09 December 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

That sounds like fun. I'm less concerned with who I play against than I am with who I play with. I'm all for learning how to cooperate with teammates on the field, but I'm really worried about getting into a team in which I'd be told to drive mech x with build y. If that's the case, I'd rather pass on that good teamwork and run the mechs I love in the PUG. If running the mechs I love in 12-man means always losing, then again, I'd rather take my chances running solo.

You should check out the Templars, it's easy to get into 12s and get some experience. You will be asked to pick a role when you join a 12 man group which means you will have to pick a mech and loadout that fits the role, but there is a lot of flexibility and I bet you would have a lot of fun.

[Navy Sixes]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

You should check out the Templars, it's easy to get into 12s and get some experience. You will be asked to pick a role when you join a 12 man group which means you will have to pick a mech and loadout that fits the role, but there is a lot of flexibility and I bet you would have a lot of fun.

Thanks, Lostdragon. I've seen some of the Templars' videos; they look impressive. If I get the time to commit to a team, I'll definitely check you guys out!

[DaZur]

Didn't wind up with what you expected?

Clearly you've never been married...

Don't all you MW:Women get all irate! If you you asked my wife this question she'd respond the same way about me.

Clearly one of us is delusional...

[Sandpit]

Lostdragon, on 09 December 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

I play pug matches a lot, more than I play 12s, but I enjoy 12s more for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. When it comes to balance, I'd say pugs are the worst place to look at game balance. I'm not a phenomenal player, I have good and bad matches. I have been accused of hacking and I sometimes have sub 100 damage matches if I make a mistake or something, even in pugs. Based on my experience I would say I am of the opposite opinion on balancing the game at the top, but I don't want to derail this thread as that subject has been beaten to death many times over.



You should check out the Templars, it's easy to get into 12s and get some experience. You will be asked to pick a role when you join a 12 man group which means you will have to pick a mech and loadout that fits the role, but there is a lot of flexibility and I bet you would have a lot of fun.

Now that sounds a lot more reasonable all the way around. It just seems that lately we've devolved into 3 groups
12 mans
premades
pugs

All 3 seem to be at odds with the others especially when it comes to balancing issues. Then there's also this mentality that 12 mans are the "competitive" side of things. I don't understand that one. CW isn't going to care whether you're a pug or 12 man. It will have the same amount of impact on the metaverse

[Joseph Mallan]

SneakyBastd, on 09 December 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Lol. Because 12 assault poptarts per side spamming airstrikes is what everyone hoped this game would be.

only if you are "Competitive"