65 replies to this topic

[Oni Ralas]

PVE is simple - squad based objectives broken into multiple mini-campaigns.

Look, Star Conflict does it - and does it quite well for being only a year old and in beta still. 4 man group will drop into a PVE scenario. It's broken into 3 phases depending on the objective. let's take blackwood shipyard for example. You're there to secure a Dreadnaught currently under construction - who has taken control of AI.

First phase, you fight AI - pretty easy, wave (fixed number) spawns and you defend yourself
Second phase, you take out the enemy broadcast towers controlling the enemy AI (and a few enemy spawns that try to stop you)
Third phase, boss man shows up. Boss mob is harder (scales with level) and calls reinforcesments. Will wipe an unprepared group.


You could *EASILY* adopt this style of play to the MWO universe. Secure the landing site by defending against scouts. Make them easily defeated, carrying stock loadouts and armor config. Then let the defense turrets go up in 2nd wave, protect agsinst medium. Little harder, shoot a little better, hurts to get hit too much in focus fire. Dropship arrives, protect it against the evil black atlas coming to mow you down. Buff the **** out of it so it's actually hard to kill.

PVE can still be very hard, require teamwork and decent shooting skills.

[MustrumRidcully]

Tombstoner, on 17 December 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

i tried during my first uninstall of MWO -sadly there is no walk down memory lane. The graphics are too dated.

I'll try to summarize my points.

1- PGI has decide to make a PVP game with skill based targeting. that means all your direct fire group weapons will hit the same spot even at max range. nothing artificial is between you and the target. player skill determines hit or miss. unless terrain clipping is an issue.

2-Every game with some form of AI has to be tuned/handy caped/buffed in some way to mimic a range of human capabilities. in FPS an AI is capable of Hitting your head 100% of the time all the time, if its not some how nerfed . you never see god like gunnery because game developers know better. They add in stuff to normalize the playing field, otherwise there players will get slaughtered.

3-When you combine PGI's skill based targeting with PVE the AI has no nerfs. it will have perfect AIM. if PGI does add say a RNG to simulate player skill. then the game turns into a dice roll for incoming damage. sorry but i dont want to get into a discussion on scripted encounters like WOW for MWO. would a UAV be the same as a warlock pet?

4- if people/PGI are not willing to tolerate a RNG between them and landing a shot. then why would people/PGI tolerate a RNG determining if and where they get hit. this makes PGI's MWO incompatible for PVE content.

5- could PVE be done, absolutely. but PGI will not use a RNG at this stage to determine incoming damage. AI and game logic are not easy to get right/tune. some players will get slaughtered and others will think its a joke. now you need dynamic scaling.

Again, I don't get what this obsession with RNG is?

No PvE player cares about the computer attacks being subject to RNG, or the computer deliberately missing every 2nd shot or whatever. It really doesn't matter in the tiny, slightest bit.

THe challenges of PvE have nothing to do with random number generation and everything to do with creating an AI and the ability to craft complex missions with lots of stats, mission story lines, NPC dialogue, new reward systems and what not.

Stop with the RNG. It's a fracking red herring.

[Taemien]

MustrumRidcully, on 17 December 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Stop with the RNG. It's a fracking red herring.

This whole thread is a red herring. The reason we don't have a single player isn't because of cryengine, or mechanics, or any other design issue.

PGI simply doesn't want to do it. Thats what needs to be discussed, not anything else. That's why I suggested someone make a kickstarter. If they see they can make some money up front, it will sweeten the deal. Though there is a good possibility they won't even take the money. Just because they'd rather devote their time to the multiplayer game.

But it'd be worth a shot. And you'd get your final answer.

[Tombstoner]

Taemien, on 17 December 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

PGI simply doesn't want to do it.

That's the point... i just expressed what I think is why.

[Hythos]

Thing is... There can be SO much more, and very easily too. Even if having an interface similar to MW1-style where the player can move between a bar, space port, contract-negotiations, mech-bay, and lounge (unit-management), add in any representation from text-display to 3D interaction, and it's an ENTIRELY different experience than what we have now... And that's not even touching private lobbies or PvE camapigns... Though, that could easily set it up for the future. Having *only* PvP is no longer enjoyable for me.

Side-note: As for any simple 3D - it's SIMPLE. Many people in this community have detailed methods on how to create content with existing free tools that can take a totally inexperienced savvy user less than 10 hours to build maps, detail a room/building/street, and create people/objects, or add in MWO art and assets, AND animate them.
Of course making it look good takes additional time, but anyone can do all of this quite easily... And with the Cryengine, it's quite easy to make something look good. For 'people', vehicles, aircraft, there's art and models available *everywhere*, lots of it intended for free use.

[Krivvan]

The problem with PvE is that it's a ton of development effort and time for something that will not be played more than once for most players.

Personally I play MWO for the competitive nature of matches (the more tryhard players the better). PvE is something I'd try once, maybe play now and then for idle amusement, but it would be intensely boring. It's boring because it's a puzzle that can only really be played once while offering a challenge.

PvE can be interesting if it offers a good atmosphere, plot, and etc. But I really doubt that's happening. All you'd get is something akin to horde mode, and I can't imagine that being much fun at all, and yet that would take years of effort to put together in a meaningful way.

Edited by Krivvan, 23 December 2013 - 05:06 AM.