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#3141 Aim64C

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

View PostGirth Fillmore, on 14 December 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I don't understand the rage, really.
Ya, it's a lot of real money, but you're getting a bunch of mechs (with mechbays) and in the higher tiers, you're also getting premium time. Throw in some obscure fluff items as well, why not! The people that buy are the ones who want to support the game and companies monetarily. If you don't want to buy, don't buy.

I can laugh at the prices because I'm not going to be purchasing any of this stuff. I'm not mad that the packages are being offered. By the time the mechs are available for CBills, and assuming I'm still playing, I should have 250M or so to spend on whatever I want.


You inadvertently pointed out what people are so upset about.

Why would you be playing this game when those 'mechs become available?

I still drop, occasionally, but it's just... boring. Drop into the same map, with everyone running one or two optimized builds for each chassis (some of those chassis being tantamount to a handicap) - all for the sake of grinding up for C-bills to make 'mechs I've already bought and paid for competitive - on top of having to grind xp for them.

Sure - I can throw money at the inconveniences ... but even if I were to convert xp into gxp to level up a few mechs I see as being particularly interesting out of my Phoenix package.... what's that actually for?

Is the game really all that fun?

True - it's a game I -want- to be fun. It's a game I -want- to want to tell my friends about so that we can all drop in and play as a team... but the experience of the game has hardly changed in the past year - with most of the changes being tolerable at best and bad/destructive on the whole.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad to see new maps coming, I'm glad to see new mechs coming.

But.... I can't help but feel as if all of those resources are a waste within the current game - and could be handled much better than they currently are.

Quote

This a company and a game trying to remain a profitable business by offering their customers the option to purchase a product ahead of time. Sales like this allow them to operate in the F2P market and shows that they're looking at the game's long-term viability.


No, no... you're horribly, horribly confused.

GDC Vault - F2P the Wrong Way: Age of Empires Online

It's a somewhat long presentation - but there are some key highlights in there:

Business models do NOT equal Production Models. New player bases require an expansion of deeper features rather than a release of additional content that does little to enrich the gaming experience.

Established Titles CAN NOT HAVE A SOFT LAUNCH - a 'soft' launch is where a minimal game is 'launched' and expansions are added on little-by-little as interest grows. People come to established titles with expectations built based upon previous games in the series. Launching a minimal shell of a game and hoping to 'build it as you go' does not work. This is exactly what many of us were trying to tell PGI with regards to their launch date in October.

I am sure, if PGI even built themselves the capacity to see how many daily users are online (it wouldn't surprise me, at this point, if they do not have that capability), that PGI will notice an almost identical trend to that which is noted in the presentation. Releasing the Phoenix package did see a rallying of the community - I am sure. More players came back to see what the hubub was about, and revenues spiked (it did out-sell their expectations - and the Founders Package brought in 5 million dollars : http://www.google.co....57967247,d.aWc ) ... but that has already declined back down to more average pre-Phoenix numbers, I am sure.

The release of the Clans will reveal almost no gains in user activity.

The reason is because their production model is flawed (and I would argue, their business model is too).

They are not paying attention to the long-term success of this game. They have made probably close to $20M on a game that could have been developed with $1M. While I'm sure they've used creative accounting to over-bill for expenses and other such ways of making production look more expensive than it actually was (or needed to be) - the fact is that they are more than set to develop an impressive game.

Path of Exile was developed up to the release of its open beta with around $4M in developmental expenses - and when they launched their open beta, they launched with, easily, 50 hours of content, end-game content, complete leveling trees, complete game mechanics (that were only expanded upon through the open beta), etc.

I stopped playing that game for a while and returned to have to practically re-learn the game. Development on it was -very- fast.

And those guys built their own game engine from the ground up. They weren't building off of an established base like CryEngine.

Quote

It's a video game, guys. Go outside, hug your loved ones and pets, and reflect on why you're so upset.


It's a business providing a service. Because of Intellectual Property Rights, Copy Rights, Trade Marks, etc - they currently hold a monopoly on this particular service that we really would like to see done justice.

#3142 Victor Morson

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

View PostCapt Jester, on 14 December 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

Even for the Masakari collection at $240,


I do find it hilarious the most expensive 'mech in the whole pack is neutered dramatically by the world's dumbest gameplay system, Ghost Heat.

#3143 olpOmat3000

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:43 PM

You see me buying every piece of your crappy content if you impliment this hanging cockpit item and STOP DELETING OUR POSTS ABOUT IT.
;)

Posted Image

No reason to be so uptight about hazy cockpit conditions. :ph34r:

#3144 White Panther

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostJimmy Page, on 14 December 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Ok, enough is enough. I'm out. I have no problem with the prices. You simply have a skeleton of a game and never address it. You never meet a deadline. No UI 2.0, No Lobbies, Not a single line of code for CW.

Long ago Turbine had Asheron's Call 2, it was failing and they released one last expansion, grabbed the money and then shut the game down 2 months later. I see the same thing here.Cheers!


That's what we are all worried about here. It's just so incredible PGI has the balls to do this after such little content has been put out. Also, just look at their communication to the customers they hardly give us a word about anything. I'm concerned for the money I put into this game already that its all going to waste.

#3145 Jason1138

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 14 December 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:


Umm, mechs ARE content.
Just sayin


mechs are avatars, content is what you do with them

#3146 Chronojam

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostAdridos, on 14 December 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:


Shouldn't the island be bought already, though? We are it's inhabitants, after all.


I'm not a man of regrets, but were it possible to re-do it, I would have set it "OWNED."

#3147 Victor Morson

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostolpOmatEOOO, on 14 December 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

You see me buying every piece of your crappy content if you impliment this hanging cockpit item and STOP DELETING OUR POSTS ABOUT IT.
;)

Posted Image

No reason to be so uptight about hazy cockpit conditions. :ph34r:


For some reason I don't think anyone that really wants that hanging in their cockpit would want to spend $740 on a 'mech. They might have.. other priorities.

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM.


#3148 JDH4mm3r

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostInfernus1986, on 14 December 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

I cant wait to hear Russ talk about how this is all thanks to the greatness of the F2P model
Posted Image


Clan packages in a nutshell
Posted Image

Never trust a fish to make a robot game.

View PostJason1138, on 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:


mechs are avatars, content is what you do with them

+1

#3149 Jason1138

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostWhite Panther, on 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

That's what we are all worried about here. It's just so incredible PGI has the balls to do this after such little content has been put out. Also, just look at their communication to the customers they hardly give us a word about anything. I'm concerned for the money I put into this game already that its all going to waste.



truth here guys. this is where PGI is headed. "oh well, we tried, it didn't work, lets push out about 75 gold mechs, take the cash and move on to the next game"

they aren't even trying to produce anything but hero mechs here lately.

#3150 Master Exploder 2k

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:47 PM

View PostTolkien, on 14 December 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Posted Image

Maybe the management doesn't actually know what's in the game? That's the only conclusion I can think of when Russ ignores the missing Phoenix badges and the unimplemented loyalty points. Or maybe it's just cognitive dissonance to prevent him from thinking himself dishonest?


It starts to look like a pyramid scheme, they ask you for money and promise that you'll get some content in a few months, in the meantime they party hard and after a few moths you end up with f**k all and pgi disappears.

Edited by Master Exploder 2k, 14 December 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#3151 olpOmat3000

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostVictor Morson, on 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:


For some reason I don't think anyone that really wants that hanging in their cockpit would want to spend $740 on a 'mech. They might have.. other priorities.


Just making fun - I don't know if I can take the devs serious anymore now.......

#3152 Victor Morson

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:49 PM

View PostMaster Exploder 2k, on 14 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

It starts to look like a pyramid scheme, they ask you for money and promise that you'll get some content in a few months, in the meantime they party hard and after a few moths you end up with f**k all and pgi disapears.


With PGI I always have a hard time deciding between "Evil" and "Stupid" with any decision.

A lot of what they do can go either way.

#3153 Victor Morson

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:49 PM

View PostolpOmatEOOO, on 14 December 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:


Just making fun - I don't know if I can take the devs serious anymore now.......


Well to be honest in the above example, I think you'd get a lot more out of the $740.... elsewhere. lol

#3154 MoonUnitBeta

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

View PostAim64C, on 14 December 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:


You inadvertently pointed out what people are so upset about.

Why would you be playing this game when those 'mechs become available?

I still drop, occasionally, but it's just... boring. Drop into the same map, with everyone running one or two optimized builds for each chassis (some of those chassis being tantamount to a handicap) - all for the sake of grinding up for C-bills to make 'mechs I've already bought and paid for competitive - on top of having to grind xp for them.

Sure - I can throw money at the inconveniences ... but even if I were to convert xp into gxp to level up a few mechs I see as being particularly interesting out of my Phoenix package.... what's that actually for?

Is the game really all that fun?

True - it's a game I -want- to be fun. It's a game I -want- to want to tell my friends about so that we can all drop in and play as a team... but the experience of the game has hardly changed in the past year - with most of the changes being tolerable at best and bad/destructive on the whole.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad to see new maps coming, I'm glad to see new mechs coming.

But.... I can't help but feel as if all of those resources are a waste within the current game - and could be handled much better than they currently are.



No, no... you're horribly, horribly confused.

GDC Vault - F2P the Wrong Way: Age of Empires Online

It's a somewhat long presentation - but there are some key highlights in there:

Business models do NOT equal Production Models. New player bases require an expansion of deeper features rather than a release of additional content that does little to enrich the gaming experience.

Established Titles CAN NOT HAVE A SOFT LAUNCH - a 'soft' launch is where a minimal game is 'launched' and expansions are added on little-by-little as interest grows. People come to established titles with expectations built based upon previous games in the series. Launching a minimal shell of a game and hoping to 'build it as you go' does not work. This is exactly what many of us were trying to tell PGI with regards to their launch date in October.

I am sure, if PGI even built themselves the capacity to see how many daily users are online (it wouldn't surprise me, at this point, if they do not have that capability), that PGI will notice an almost identical trend to that which is noted in the presentation. Releasing the Phoenix package did see a rallying of the community - I am sure. More players came back to see what the hubub was about, and revenues spiked (it did out-sell their expectations - and the Founders Package brought in 5 million dollars : http://www.google.co....57967247,d.aWc ) ... but that has already declined back down to more average pre-Phoenix numbers, I am sure.

The release of the Clans will reveal almost no gains in user activity.

The reason is because their production model is flawed (and I would argue, their business model is too).

They are not paying attention to the long-term success of this game. They have made probably close to $20M on a game that could have been developed with $1M. While I'm sure they've used creative accounting to over-bill for expenses and other such ways of making production look more expensive than it actually was (or needed to be) - the fact is that they are more than set to develop an impressive game.

Path of Exile was developed up to the release of its open beta with around $4M in developmental expenses - and when they launched their open beta, they launched with, easily, 50 hours of content, end-game content, complete leveling trees, complete game mechanics (that were only expanded upon through the open beta), etc.

I stopped playing that game for a while and returned to have to practically re-learn the game. Development on it was -very- fast.

And those guys built their own game engine from the ground up. They weren't building off of an established base like CryEngine.



It's a business providing a service. Because of Intellectual Property Rights, Copy Rights, Trade Marks, etc - they currently hold a monopoly on this particular service that we really would like to see done justice.

I want to give you a great big hug. Exactly what I have been trying to say.

View PostJason1138, on 14 December 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:


mechs are avatars, content is what you do with them

+1

#3155 Chronojam

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:51 PM

View PostZanathan, on 14 December 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

As I said in my other post, I never openly critised PGI but I really don't have any words for this .. so in protest, I have a new signature (thanks to Chrono).

I saw some people using it and had wondered where it came from! It looks good.

#3156 Victor Morson

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:51 PM

Also if I was an all-Clan unit that has been playing the game patiently awaiting the way way overdue Clans (I fortunately have been with an IS themed unit), holy hell would I be pissed off right now instead of just Posted Image

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 December 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#3157 Fate 6

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostGrizzlyViking, on 13 December 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Maybe the $500.00 package includes PGI stock?

Not that it would be worth much, if anything.

For some perspective on how bad this is, I spent 200+ on a Constellation in Star Citizen, one ship. But I don't really regret it even though the game won't come out for a year or more. Why? The developers prove they actually care about the players and prove they are always improving.

MWO? I already have regrets about the Phoenix purchase. Sure, it kept me playing the game (I would have quit from boredom if I hadn't purchased it), but why should I keep putting time into this game when it continues to show no progress. This game calls itself a full game! Amazing! The alpha of Minecraft was more fun, only cost me $15 one time, and improved steadily over time.

So, I wouldn't buy 24 mechs in this game but I would buy a single ship in another, purely based on the developers.

#3158 Khobai

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:52 PM

Quote

Even for the Masakari collection at $240, which includes 24 'Mechs with a MechBay for each 'Mech, excluding all of the other bonus content puts each 'Mech at $10 each. But then if you add in Premium Time and all the extras, the 'Mech costs drop even lower. It's actually pretty reasonable, if you ask me, but the overall cost is very steep. I'd much rather be able to pick with chassis I want and buy only those.


Since most of us agree Phoenix was a good deal, if you go by Phoenix pack pricing, $160 would be acceptable for 24 mechs. Not the $240 theyre asking.

#3159 Roadbeer

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:52 PM

Lulz. 1/6 of this thread is posts from the same 10 people.

#3160 Kaijin

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:53 PM

View PostVictor Morson, on 14 December 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:


I get the impression his post was laden with sarcasm.


Sarcasm, yes. But some truth in it as well. I was amazed to see all the founders with their overlord badges. How could they not know any better?

Edited by Kaijin, 14 December 2013 - 02:23 PM.






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