1978 replies to this topic

[Hexenhammer]

Soooo Clans will just get IS Tech v1.5

[Alpha Wulf]

This is ********. Quit deleting people's posts PGI.

You can't silence people just because they don't agree with you.

I thought this was 3050, not 1984.

[Thorqemada]

Thx for the info - now lets wait and see how it works out in the ingame reality when its time has come.

Obviously Clan vs IS is 10vs12 matches, thus the poweradvantage of a Clanmech is 1,2 times an IS-Mech (if you only had to balance pure numbers).

Edited by Thorqemada, 14 December 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Jack Gallows, on 14 December 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

I was going to post feedback but...[ReDACTED] for [ReDACTED] censorship [ReDACTED]

Man, I love wasting my breath when they ask for feedback. Clan tech from this design doc is horrible especially with how bad the current implemented systems are. This will just fail as well.

At least the censorship function is working. Can't be having that negative feedback, might actually show people's REAL opinions...ohnoes!

Says more about the type of feedback you were providing.
Petulant nerdrage is not feedback, it's just a tantrum.

I see a lot of negative feedback, but it's done well.

In short, L2Post

[A Man In A Can]

Interesting. You actually thought of a swappable appendages option. That was an idea I had for the Clans a long time ago before I knew about this game. My version had it swap between appendages with similar locked amounts of FF/ES, but the suggested idea is good enough. So it becomes swappable appendages amongst variants of the same mech. I can live with that.

I also like the direction you seem to be going with the weapon adjustments. Streak direction looks good. ERLL direction looks good but I think it could keep the TT range (it's not that much of a difference 675-1350 vs 750-1500) but leave the duration and certainly the heat increase. LRM direction is okay. I think having a loose minimum range for those missiles is a can of worms that is not necessary, even if it is the midway point. I think such missiles should keep their 180m 0 damage, and have a drawback in heat and a return to TT ammo values for their generous cut in tonnage and space. I am glad you are hesitant in adjusting tonnage values for it. You never broke that design credo for weapons, and I suggest you continue to not break it for your sake.

It would be nice to see a follow-up post about how clan ballistics would be handled (especially Ultras), and whether the IS would be getting any of their like-tech weapons as well when the mechs hit so IS players don't feel left out. I mean no IS weapon updates for 7-8 years while Clan players enjoy streak4s 6s Ultra 10s 20s etc.? I don't care if it breaks lore at that point, that's no fun.

But otherwise, looking forward to playing them and playing against them!

[MonkeyCheese]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:
Due to spam abuse. This image has been removed. Please provide feedback in written form.

You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

This, I see good and bad things (the ssrm one I kinda have to agree with) in your list of how to balance clantech so not to break the current game and that is fine.

But seriously PGI we are SCREAMING for content, stop leaving us in the dark, the community needs updates and serious deadlines that are kept for things like community warfare stages, private lobbies and everything else that is being held back and bottlenecked by the mythical UI2.0.

Give us DETAILED posts for these things and the community might calm down, also split up your clan packs if I wish to buy the 2 lights dont force me to buy a medium/heavy/assault as well.

[Volkodav]

Let's move on to a later date timeline - where all the technology available to everyone. And then there will be no problems with balance, etc. And everyone will be happy.

clan LRM - I do not understand - why reduce damage from missiles with the distance. LRM is not SRM and they do not fly in a straight line, they make them arch and in any case of very hard to get hit to enemy - make the arch at the beginning of missiles. ?

[Jack Gallows]

Alpha Wulf, on 14 December 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

This is ********. Quit deleting people's posts PGI.

You can't silence people just because they don't agree with you.

I thought this was 3050, not 1984.

Just take before and after screenshots, then make huge posts on other gaming forums where they can't edit anything.

Can't stop the signal.

Roadbeer, on 14 December 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

Says more about the type of feedback you were providing.
Petulant nerdrage is not feedback, it's just a tantrum.

I see a lot of negative feedback, but it's done well.

In short, L2Post

Except it was well thought out and constructive and the entire post got blasted to eternity.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 14 December 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Thoummim]

Instead of increasing the lrm20 tonnage, why not remove the option of indirect fire for clan lrm, let them fire in straight line ? So they would not be able to fire that guy that hide behind a building even with a scout.

Also there is the possibility of messing with the missile speed.

Clan lrm would hit harder but slower to get to the guy. I don't know I'm just trying to give idea .

Edited by Thoummim, 14 December 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[Pezzer]

Overall, the most broken things in their Clan post are the missiles and the hardpoint-changing.

Why would anyone buy Streak-6s if they were slowly spit out, 2 at a time, just to hit random mech parts? The tonnage cost is going to be insane for these things and noone is going to buy them with the current system. Not to mention the fact that SRMs are STILL broken! Why add another type of Streak when normal SRMs and missile as a whole are broken? Please fix hit detection and explosive radius.
Clan LRMs need to fire straight forward or maybe at a 5-degree angle and with a minimum range of 90 meters. That way we have more weapons variety AKA a long-range LRM that does less damage but has range and junk, but can still be used to brawl if you have the extra heat lying around. By making the min range 90m, you can't use it to take out scouts AKA the role of Streaks.

As for the hardpoint-moving system where you just cut a mech section off and replace it with another one...this seriously sounds just plain stupid. It sounds like an engineer at the Mech-producing plant with na IQ of less than 90 was trying to figure out how to move weapons in a mech around. "Well, ummm, maybe if we just cut the part of that mech off and take this part of a mech and bolt it on, that Mech can now shoot LAZARS!"
That being said, minus the ridiculousness of this system, it will work well. As long as armor stats can be changed. We all know that PGI can't balance this out correctly, so how about this balance mechanic gets the axe? Make it so each arm or torso has a limit of customization based off of the type. Daishi Arm Type A can have between 30 and 50 armor, while Daishi type B can have between 15 and 35 armor. Just let us change this stuff around! Later on down the line, it may be a good idea to lift limits of FF vs normal armor as well.

So these are my thoughts on the new post, thought I'd post on here about my opinions regarding these new ideas. They will need a lot of tuning, but the fact that they posted about their thoughts on these mechanics 6 months before release is awesome in itself. Allows us to help tune the game with them...if they accept our help.

Cya guys in another month or two I guess.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Joker Two, on 14 December 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

I really appreciate your attempt to balance Clantech. I urge you to avoid modifying the weight or crit slots of any items, even (ESPECIALLY) Clan missile systems, as those changes would likely invalidate many stock configurations. I realize this will prove a challenge, but would otherwise nullify many iconic Clan 'Mechs.

I would still prefer asymmetric matchmaking (i.e. 10 v. 12, or even 10 v. 16), but it's nice to see you're thinking about this ahead of time.

I think I can see irony in there, but am not sure. ^^

They're thinking about this 6 months prior to releasing these mechs into the game. Not if you take a look at PGI development times, 6 months are normally barely enough for them to integrate a new menu into the game.

Plus they AGAIN deviate from a path that has been set over 30 years ago. It worked for these 30 years. But yes, yes of course, they will probably revolutionize the whole thing in 6 months time, just like they did with everything else...

Sorry, but right now simply very, very disappointed. Their changes kill MechWarrior, yet they want to sell MechWarrior. This is just not right.

[Starwulfe]

One thing that could be done for balance, instead of all the weapon hocus pocus, comes right from the lore in the way clans operate in stars instead of lances and usually bring fewer mechs to the field than the opposition.
Have the groups set up around those lines. When you create a group, choose whether to operate as a lance or a star.
In drops, you'd have three lances or two stars for a total of twelve or ten mechs.
If anyone in your group is using a clan mech, you have to form up as a star. (Mix and match if desired, Clan mechs not required to operate in a star)
If dropping solo, you will be grouped up with others using clan tech in a star.
If your dropping as a star, you will drop with two fewer mechs on your side.

[Roadbeer]

Jack Gallows, on 14 December 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Except it was well thought out and constructive and the entire post got blasted to eternity.

Obviously not. There are 160+ Pages of nerdrage in another thread and a lot of denting opinions in this one.
But obviously when it happens to you, it's censorship and heavy-handed moderating.

Forumites are so damn predictable.

[RapidFire7]

I'm an avid player, I've invested a fair amount of money into this game and understand that PGI needs to make money to continue paying their employees and keep the game running.

Obviously, Clan mechs are going to be a bit more expensive than Inner Sphere mechs

HOWEVER

Hardly anyone is going to want to pay anything with the current pricing as it is. If I want a Warhawk, and only a Warhawk, why do I have to pay $240?

For the amount of Clan mechs available, I suggest that comsumers should be able to either:

- Pick and choose which chassis packs they want for $30 each

- Pick separate weight packs (for example, a Clan Light pack for $55-$60)

- Keep the extras for people that want to buy the whole 8-tier list but remove it for those people who just want to pick a few mechs from the bunch

- I also suggest that if you wanted to give players a better deal for the 8-tier and if you want to ENCOURAGE spending, put a little discount among the top-tier packages. eg. From the Uller Collection up, $30, $60, $90, $115, $140, $165, $185, $200. That way, when you get to the bigger packages, you get more mechs and stuff per $$$ that someone spends. It's smart marketing and it encourages spending, especially since you are selling digital content.

Please take these onboard... I'm thinking that I can get a moderator to see this if I put a cuss word in it?

[keith]

i wonder how long it takes to come up wit these half baked balance ideas. one of few rules in balancing a mechwarrior title is never touch tonnage of a wep. lasers are already a fail wep that need help and this idea will make the clan version pure shelf wep. gg pgi

[Jack Gallows]

Roadbeer, on 14 December 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Obviously not. There are 160+ Pages of nerdrage in another thread and a lot of denting opinions in this one.
But obviously when it happens to you, it's censorship and heavy-handed moderating.

Forumites are so damn predictable.

Because, you know, it can't possibly anything else then what you suggest. Apparently I'm a horrible 'forumite' who only spew vitriol and spam when my post history says otherwise.

But yeah, just throw out your blanket statement about the quality of content of another poster if it makes you feel better.

On topic...

Omni-hardpoint idea isn't bad and could actually work well depending on any changes from now and release. Since my original post got censored and deleted I won't be reposting my take on Clan Weaponry (as it was rather lengthy and time consuming to try to reconstruct and post again) and I'll just say that I find it prone to a lot of balance issues and hope you take a much longer look at how you're approaching it.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 14 December 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[Nuclear Weapon]

Do you want my input here?

I want a skill based game using the full power of clan tech "as is" im tired of your "NERF EVERYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOOD FOR NOTHING PILOTS THAT PAY FOR GOLD MECHS"

yes... you (the design team) suck as much as any other team inside PGI / IGP.

[MCXL]

TOGSolid, on 14 December 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

So lemme get this straight, for a couple years it was a hard rule that tonnage would never be tampered with since it would break stock mechs and your brilliant idea is to up the LRM20's tonnage.Just exactly how much Mercury is in Canada's water?

Just don't **** with the tonnages.

[Jidar Garak]

This sounds surprisingly well planned!

[Crimson Fenris]

I've no clue about why PGI makes things more complicated, except to justify the humongous amount of time wasted into useless changes...

How to balance your game, quick and easy mode :

1. visit sarna.net
2. retrieve battle values of all things in the game
3. apply them to the matchmaker
4. enjoy people being satisfied by the natural balance between Clan and IS


ALL things had already been done by generations of gamers of the BT universe. Why in the world wouldn't you simply put some confidence in it and try it ?
Its the simplier way, especially considering such a small team as yours...


Two words : Battle Value


If you dont use it, the only thing you'll see will be everyone in Clan mech, nobody in IS ones...
I wouldn't presume that's another plan to sell more things with the "Planned obsolescence" program, but I still hope it's not the case (is it ??).

Edited by Crimson Fenris, 14 December 2013 - 03:32 PM.