1978 replies to this topic

[K Storm]

I appreciate the information on Clan tech and how you are working to balance them. I think it makes sense to somehow prevent the tech from being OP. Otherwise, we'll all eventually end up having clan tech... then what's the point? Only the sad newbs or infrequent players will be left with {Scrap} equipment... not very fun. So good job on trying to prevent such an outcome.

Regarding the sale of Clan Mechs soooo far in advance?!?! Especially while also admitting their balance has not been finalized?? There is more going on here. I say you're scrambling for money you either need or want... there's really no other explanation... it's 6 months out. wtf? And where's the story or suspense regarding the Clan invasion? In one day Clan mechs will be all over every battlefield (assuming enough people buy into it). It just feels wrong.

[Clockwork Ninja]

I kind of always thought the balance point would be that clan teams attack with 10 people (2 stars) to the IS's 12 (3 lances).
People would keep separate clan and IS profiles, using different currency (honor points?).

[Clementine]

K Storm, on 17 December 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

I appreciate the information on Clan tech and how you are working to balance them. I think it makes sense to somehow prevent the tech from being OP. Otherwise, we'll all eventually end up having clan tech... then what's the point? Only the sad newbs or infrequent players will be left with {Scrap} equipment... not very fun. So good job on trying to prevent such an outcome.

Regarding the sale of Clan Mechs soooo far in advance?!?! Especially while also admitting their balance has not been finalized?? There is more going on here. I say you're scrambling for money you either need or want... there's really no other explanation... it's 6 months out. wtf? And where's the story or suspense regarding the Clan invasion? In one day Clan mechs will be all over every battlefield (assuming enough people buy into it). It just feels wrong.

1. Mech and Tech do not determine outcome in a fight, only the pilot.

2. It cost's money to keep servers running and development going. There exists a lot of competition out there already and bear in mind it is 3 years old now. Players with no loyalty to the series will simply get the next fad. I am buying the entire clan package, soon.

~Clan Wolf.

[Duke Blaine]

First off, good luck sifting through the negative Nancy's.

The Decreasing or increasing the weight on anything is going to play havoc on both the players and design team I feel. Good luck but I do have a possible solution. Since you are planning on switching out A for B arms or shoulders etc... maybe you can make those A and B parts have set weapons... LRM 20 for example. If mounted permanent in an omni slot make it 5 tons... however if you add an LRM 20 to this A or B part make it weigh more. Can stand to reason that if you add it to something it weighs more but if you SET it in a slot or A/B part of a omni mech it remains 5 tons.

Just a possibility. And again, good luck.

[darkchylde]

Ghost Heads Needs to Go or we are going to have even more dead mechs on arrival.

This game has to stop deviating from Battletech and start delivering on all the so called promised features we are all still waiting for.

Stop trying to balance Clan vs Inner Sphere - introduce Battle Values.

Until some major changes are done to this game - I don't see myself returning anytime soon nor would I spend anymore cash on what has clearly become a money grab.

Edited by darkchylde, 17 December 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[ravenkk]

Greeting to Paul ,marketing and management department of PGI

By now you all probably have already got the respond from the community about what they think of the Clan Bundle Pack so i

would not tire you with more on what went wrong.

i don't believe the balancing you were talking about would be working for many reason ( lore, player playing style, and IF and

why they brought the Clan Pack for the prices.... if they only getting IS 1.5. Ect...)

I do believe there is a simple fix to this through that is to give a tonnage and number % so that more Clan tech and mech on

one team the less mech they have. ( i assume PGI will redo the match system, which should be easily than balance all the

mech and weapon)

all other thing you need to do is the change back the IS PPC minimal range back to 0 and Lower ERPPC Ghost heat as the

Clan is the Balance for the IS PPC AND ERPPC no need to change the IS AC type as well, that way every one would be

mostly happy. which should be Pretty GOOD.

Less anger and more happense for all. IS have the numbers and Clan Mech have the SKILLS (i think they would, after all is

lot C-bill and They would Play a lot more than Other IS mech)

this should be the most customer friendly Solution for PGI .

[ImperialKnight]

I love how some people are cherry picking points to support their argument. Clanners complaining about nerfs while IS complain about OP weapons.

I have no problems with the methods of balancing. Yes, give the Clan mechs better weapons but take away their ability to customise engines/armor/equipment. I assume this means NO IS mechs can equip clan weapons, because that would make IS mechs OP as hell.

I like the idea about longer burn times for Clan lasers and curved damage scaling for LRMs. In fact, a lot of other weapons can be balanced using a curved graph. I never understood why the damage scaling has to be linear.

[Cujo4x]

Ok, I'm not as up on the whole lore thing as some here, but what I do know from playing MechWarrior 1 through MechWarrior 4 is that the clan mechs are supposed to be way overpowered compared to the inner sphere. The inner sphere was only able to compete by overwhelming numbers and sneaky tactics.
So instead of nerfing the clan mechs (and I don't care how you juggle numbers, that is what you're doing) How about limiting the number of clan mechs that can que at a time. Like 6 vs 12 or 4 vs 12. When it comes to community warfare, the same thing would go. Only so many clan mechs per planet/mission. Slower progression tree for clan mechs would be a good idea as well.
Just a thought from regular everyday gamer.

[ravenkk]

knightsljx, on 17 December 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

I love how some people are cherry picking points to support their argument. Clanners complaining about nerfs while IS complain about OP weapons.

I have no problems with the methods of balancing. Yes, give the Clan mechs better weapons but take away their ability to customise engines/armor/equipment. I assume this means NO IS mechs can equip clan weapons, because that would make IS mechs OP as hell.

I like the idea about longer burn times for Clan lasers and curved damage scaling for LRMs. In fact, a lot of other weapons can be balanced using a curved graph. I never understood why the damage scaling has to be linear.

i still think the making the the Clan out number base on the side with number of tech and tonnage woulld be the best soultion

knightslijx. what you suggest make sense, but would bring same problem as all of other nef and OP patch, IS would cry OP

and Clan would cry nef too much.

i like you idea cujo4x by the way

good day to you two.

[Nephero]

Responding to the missile subject: Perhaps if Missile weapons simply had firing modes that you could choose before a match that changed their performance, it would help for example: Before you complete your mech with say 3 SRM 6's, allow this: Let there be a setting before completion that is to set a firing mode for that specific weapons group. All SRMS would be under the same setting to choose as all LRM would be under their own seperate setting. The setting would be rhythem of fire for the weapons. 2 at a time simultaniously or staggered one after the other. For LRMs (say an LRM 20 and an LRM 10) All LRMs equiped on that mech would set a prompt to set a firing rhythem: Staggered for 1 at a time, 5 at a time, or 10 at a time, but not all 30 at one time. You would then be able to save your settings then proceed to the battlefield. AMS would play a more critical role being able to shoot down missiles more effectively and the shooter would have to remain stationary for longer, limiting boating. And logically I don't know of a real world weapon system that fires a missile projectile all at once in a large group. Missiles would knock into each other and cause all kinds of problems so its only logical to do away with the large volley system all together and have a setting for longer, smaller volleys. The backspace key could even serve as the button to set said function.

-Just a suggestion

[cSand]

Me likey. I think the ideas sound and the general direction. Testing and refinement will show how they truly work but to me it seems good on paper.

IMO, to hell with canon and TT rules. Some people will **** bricks for just hearing that, but there's a game for them. It's called Battletech and you play it on a table . A lot of people seem to forget that not all of us give even a hint of a damn about canon, adn have never played TT. I have, however, played tons of MW2 and read 1 novel Personally I just want to see all these mechs fighting each other in a variety of lovely flavours. Obviously CW and all that stuff too, but I am patient and this thread isn't about that.

Can I stomp around and blow up mechs? Yes? Consider me pleased

Edited by cSand, 17 December 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[Ronin Cahill]

it is kind of weird that the Devs would not allow engine or armor changes on a clan mech......that would make me NOT use it at all. how many of us tweek 2 points off the legs to average out tonnage for that extra DHS. or slap that nifty engine in our catapult to make it hum at 97kph.. taking away our fun to customize our mechs is plain stupid and only hurts our view of the game. I am trying to be gentle with my language but I really do want to use foul language when referring to the Devs. and on my TS crew all I hear is negative feedback towards their decisions. the only good thing is..at least its a mech game...and since many of us have been waiting for 10 years for a good one we are stuck...so DEVS why not make it a game to remember...not dread.
Ronin

[GalaxyBluestar]

Alaric Hasek, on 17 December 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

The Clan 'mechs not being able to customize engines, etc. is a good idea, but with most of the Clan equipment being better (most importantly - less heavy) there really is no reason to play an IS 'mech. People play them because they have to. Once the Clan 'mechs are in the wild noone will play anything else.

The only way to encourage people to play IS 'mechs is to allow IS 'mechs to buy certain types of Clan equipment or to make Clan 'mechs horribly crippled in some way, but that seems unlikely to please people who paid $250 or more.
Actually, there might be another - Clan 'mech armor values being very light compared to an IS 'mech of the same weight. That may well turn the tide as well.

I don't know. The cynic in me thinks this a play for a bunch of funds before the project wraps up.

this right here is THE most common fallacy in gaming. ask WHY clans are so favoured, it's not even opness. it's WINNING!
OPness doesn't get you anywhere if you're losing 50% of the time, that can be done easily via being outnumbered.

seriously do you want balancing to be done with examples like this;

Balancing – Raw Numbers
The key elements that make Clan Tech overpowered include size reductions, tonnage reductions, range increases and damage increases over similar Inner Sphere weapons. The best way to discuss this is to look at some examples.

e.g. 1 – ER Large Laser
Inner Sphere Tech:
Heat: 12
Damage: 8
Range: 570m
Tons: 5
Crit(Slots): 2

Clan Tech:
Heat: 12
Damage: 10
Range: 750m
Tons: 4
Crit(Slots): 1

It is very easy to see how the Clan version of the ER Large Laser is significantly more advantageous than the Inner Sphere equivalent. The Clan ER Large Laser does 2 more damage, has 180m more range, weighs 1 ton less and takes up half the amount of space while maintaining the same amount of heat generation.

when we all know the MWO stats are like THIS;

Balancing – Raw Numbers
The key elements that make Clan Tech overpowered include size reductions, tonnage reductions, range increases and damage increases over similar Inner Sphere weapons. The best way to discuss this is to look at some examples.

e.g. 1 – ER Large Laser
Inner Sphere Tech:
Heat: 12
Damage: 8
Range: 570m
Tons: 5
Crit(Slots): 2

Clan Tech:
Heat: 12
Damage: 10
Range: 750m
Tons: 4
Crit(Slots): 1

e.g. 1 – ER Large Laser USED IN MWO
Inner Sphere Tech:
Heat: 8.5
Damage: 9
Range: 675-1350m
Tons: 5
Crit(Slots): 2

paul: yes i know about my game and how to bring clan equipment down to... oh wait if i brought it down a fraction it might already be like our own weapon system..... er.....

[Knightcrawler]

I think you guys missed a big opportunity here. Why nerf Clan weapons to balance things, when you can make asymmetrical multiplayer games? Clans can have their better weapons, but they'll be at a numerical disadvantage. Instead of 12 on 12, it could end up as 14 on 10. Of course, that kinda breaks down with people able to deploy whatever mech they want, and the ability to put Clan weapons on IS mechs without any special adaptors or anything. When I first imagined Clan tech in this game, it was back when community warfare was going to be central to the experience.

[Wasudan]

Njal, on 14 December 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

One of the things that helped the IS againt the clans was double tonnage and physical attacks which the clanners refused to use. So make a MadCat worth 150tons in matchmaking and allow us to kick it to pieces. In that case i would not care for weapons balancing.

This one is with good idea for me.

[Smart Bomb]

Knightcrawler, on 17 December 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

I think you guys missed a big opportunity here. Why nerf Clan weapons to balance things, when you can make asymmetrical multiplayer games? Clans can have their better weapons, but they'll be at a numerical disadvantage. Instead of 12 on 12, it could end up as 14 on 10. Of course, that kinda breaks down with people able to deploy whatever mech they want, and the ability to put Clan weapons on IS mechs without any special adaptors or anything. When I first imagined Clan tech in this game, it was back when community warfare was going to be central to the experience.

Why not? Matchmaker already does this so everyone should have plenty of experience on both sides of the coin.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Smart Bomb, on 17 December 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Why not? Matchmaker already does this so everyone should have plenty of experience on both sides of the coin.

i'm thinking 8clanvs16 IS would be perfect and dropship mode 24-48vs 12 clans would be such a fun game! do we do fun games around here?

[Smart Bomb]

GalaxyBluestar, on 17 December 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

i'm thinking 8clanvs16 IS would be perfect and dropship mode 24-48vs 12 clans would be such a fun game! do we do fun games around here?

More fun than rolling a dice to decide whether or not matchmaker gives you 12v12, 11v12, or 10v12 with current IS mechs.

[Stonefalcon]

Community Warfare = My money.

PGI, you release CW, you get my money and that is a fact.

[30ft SMURF]

would it be all that difficult to make 2 different games. Have one game where every piece of technology in game is based on the table top version. No double armor. No extra ghost heat. None of the extra ******** fixes to balance things... Return all the cost of reloading lrms and ammo and repair to your mech and let the diehard mechwarrior fans choose to play that style. Then use the current version where you overtweak every aspect of the game as the second game for everyone else who constantly ******* about this that or the other op weapon/build of the day and you might find you have a happy customer base... As is all that ever gets acomplished is this that or the other promise to all the bitching folk that you'll fix what they think is broken and everyone is still pissed off because every fix breaks something else. Unfortunately any of the ideas tossed about in the origional post seem meaningless as they will likely be something copletely different come a year from now... It couldn't be all that difficult to follow the tabletop information that has been set in stone long before your company came around and if people realy don't like it you already have this backup pos version ready to go that we've all been helping you beta test for **** ever. For **** sake, if you ever do anything in your life thats halfway decent... consider this...

Edited by 30ft SMURF, 17 December 2013 - 11:55 PM.