1978 replies to this topic

[marbleworks]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 February 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

kinda weird because the franchise was dead, i didn't see you coming along and reviving it. Why should anybody else get the license, nobody gave a rats ass about MWO except for the fans. We are lucky some of the people who work on PGI are also long time fans; However, if another company wants to come and help then that would be cool, they could make it a joint project

Gaming wise it was, and where does the expectation that he has to revive it come from? The company who offers the best product for the consumers should get the license because ultimately that is where it will go. Needless to say what was offered hasn't been realized and changed since inception of closed beta. Which leads me to my second point; fanship does not determine success or qualifications so equating developers as liking the franchise does not mean they understand the appeal of the game.

Another company isn't going to help this mess.

I fell sad because so much of the game still isn't in and we have clans now that mean nothing. whats the point if they are just called clans if they are going to be weaker if not equal to inner sphere crap. Except for the basic designs the allure of the clans are gone.

[wanderer]

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kinda weird because the franchise was dead, i didn't see you coming along and reviving it. Why should anybody else get the license, nobody gave a rats ass about MWO execpt for the fans. We are lucky some of the people who work on PGI are also long time fans; However, if another company wants to come and help then that would be cool, they could make it a joint project

And if the franchise "lives" via another dead game, was it really revived in the first place, or did a bad company come along, make promises they couldn't keep, and then fails, keeping that money/licensing away from someone who'd have done things better?

I mean, c'mon. We're talking a company that's hidden it's history of pumping out shovelware behind a series of new names.

[El Space Doctor]

^^ I know. I remember when the MW5 reveal trailer first came out. Only time in my life when I honestly got really excited about a game reveal, thinking, yes, finally. Then at the end of the trailer it says .. Piranha. Huh? What now? Quick googling.. So, they've made a fishing game that wouldn't pass for a facebook game these days and.. pretty much nothing else. That ended up with one of those zooming out photos of earth with an enormous NOOOOOOOOOOO soundtrack...

Now they did better than I first thought, I mean, atleast the art team is pretty damn good. But just imagine if the the living legends crew had PGI's resources and founders money?They delivered much more of a game with zero budget and with those millions we'd probably have pilotable dropships..

[Yokomohoyo]

Sorry for arriving late at this very important discussion. I will share my point of view to try to save this game that I like. The suggestions for balancing the clans are intended to create an equality of outcome, or in other words it is the equivalent of socialism which is a complete and utter failure. All games that have tried this have failed because no one wants to play a game with identical factions, races, classes, etc. Socialism doesn’t make everyone rich it makes everyone poor, which in game terms translate that you end up with mediocre factions, races, classes, etc. You need to create a game with equality of opportunity for all factions, races, classes, etc. but not equality of outcome. Battletech is a game with equality of opportunity which means that Mechwarrior Online can also have equality of opportunity. In Battletech the clans have XL engines, endo steel, ferrous fiber, etc. that are less bulky plus weapons that have longer range, more damage, less weight and are less bulky while inner sphere has the better equipment especially for close combat with Hatchet, Stealth Armor, Bloodhound Active Probe, Angel ECM Suite, Triple Strength Myomer, etc. Please don’t destroy this great game by trying to create equality of outcome!

[Karl Streiger]

While discussing ClanTech - I recognized the following:
Heatsinks or Structural equipment that is allready build in to the Mech could not be removed or replaced right?
A XL engine stays a XL engine - but its possible to modify the rating? I didn't found anything about the rating change.

So lets think about it: I run a Kitfox - it has 16ton of modul capacity; endosteel and ferro fibrous.... with the possible increase of armor distribution i have 14.5t remaining..... because 100kph on a light mech is a death sentence i start to increase the rating... up to 250 -> 136 kph -> and the remaining module capacity is 11 tons.
But what happened to my heatsinks?
I have 3 of the free 10 heat sinks allready placed in my structure - and I should not be able to remove them - but a 250 engine can take all of those 10 free heat sinks -

• so option 1 - the rule 1 is changed - heatsinks could be removed or the location could be changed (say hello to the Quad AC 20 Dire Wolf)
  
• option 2 - bigger engine ratings - didn't place heatsinks from the structure into the engines...in the example - the reactor can take 3 additional heatsinks, but only the 11th,12th and 13th heatsink (so you have a reduced heat capacity and heat dissipation of 1.8 in comparision with other Mechs with a 250
  
• option 3 - engine rating could not be changed - > congratulation to all that have bought the Kitfox - my Dragon is faster, better armored and equally armed

Edited by Karl Streiger, 23 February 2014 - 11:55 PM.

[Yokomohoyo]

What they intend to do is to have clan mechs that are basically uncustomizable because you can’t change what is in the core mech which includes engine type and rating, number and placement of a minimum number of heatsinks, amount and distribution of armor, armor type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Ferro-Fibrous, internal structure type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Endo Steel, enhancements such as MASC, occasional weapon or other piece of equipment (e.g. jump jets) that is included as part of the base configuration. In other words it is option 3 - engine rating could not be changed. Your Dragon is faster, better armored and equally armed than a Kit Fox (Uller) but it also weight twice as much which should make a big difference in competitive play (tournaments, ladders, rankings, etc.) by taking inner sphere out of the competition. Sadly, I do not foresee any type of competitive play with this game.

The basic problem that Mechwarrior Online has when converting the tabletop game Battletech to a computer game is that Battletech was meant to be a fast game between two players controlling several mechs so one mistake that killed one mech with a single shot wasn’t as devastating because you had other mechs. The weapons in Battletech were meant to kill most mechs in a round which translates to a second in Mechwarrior Online and that kills the fun out of most games because any moron can put 2 AC/20 in a mech and take out most mechs with a single hit. The simplest way to balance the computer game while still using most of the rules of the tabletop game is to get rid of ghost heat and all the rules that are not in the tabletop game but quintuple the armor and ammo per ton. This simple change would allow option 1 but no self-respecting clan warrior would mount quad AC/20 he would mount quad Ultra AC/20 which would kill most light and medium mechs in one second even with quintuple armor, not to mention that the clans have targeting computer to target the head for an easy kill. It might even be necessary to have ten times the armor and ammo per ton to eliminate the easy head kills with targeting computer but keep all the other rules intact.

With the balance to the clans that Mechwarrior Online intends to implement everyone will end up using the same clan mech in other words the Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) and the inner sphere mechs would become obsolete. Mechwarrior Online could be one of the greatest games if inner sphere light, medium and heavy mechs had Hatchet, Stealth Armor, Bloodhound Active Probe, Angel ECM Suite, Triple Strength Myomer to get pass the clan’s superior fire power at medium to long range while relaying the targeting information to the heavy and assault mechs on their base with ELRM. One of the most important reasons why I am House Liao is because of the stealth armor of their Death Commandos.

[wanderer]

As a fellow (and by far older) Capellan player, I've got to comment on and correct a few things here.

Quote

The basic problem that Mechwarrior Online has when converting the tabletop game Battletech to a computer game is that Battletech was meant to be a fast game between two players controlling several mechs so one mistake that killed one mech with a single shot wasn’t as devastating because you had other mechs. The weapons in Battletech were meant to kill most mechs in a round which translates to a second in Mechwarrior Online and that kills the fun out of most games because any moron can put 2 AC/20 in a mech and take out most mechs with a single hit.

Actually, twin 20's won't core anything heavier than a light 'Mech in MWO, thanks to doubled armor. Anything 30 tons or heavier can sustain a 40 point frontal CT hit, though a backshot will gut plenty up into the medium and lower heavy range. Of course, if you let a slow, lightly armored gun platform somehow punch two of the biggest guns in the game up your pucker-hole, you truly got played. Amusingly, most twin-20's can't take what they dish out or move faster than a crawl- or are tremendously fragile otherwise.

That's why we don't all run around in Jagermechs. They take firepower to 11 but pay for it in needing someone to cover their approach, or their sniper Gauss versions suffer from similar issues but worse infighting power.

Quote

The simplest way to balance the computer game while still using most of the rules of the tabletop game is to get rid of ghost heat and all the rules that are not in the tabletop game but quintuple the armor and ammo per ton. This simple change would allow option 1 but no self-respecting clan warrior would mount quad AC/20 he would mount quad Ultra AC/20 which would kill most light and medium mechs in one second even with quintuple armor, not to mention that the clans have targeting computer to target the head for an easy kill. It might even be necessary to have ten times the armor and ammo per ton to eliminate the easy head kills with targeting computer but keep all the other rules intact.

If you knew TT, you'd also know you can't target the head with a targeting computer. Now, I'll agree that the single-shot AC model is not only broken in terms of MWO, but canonically as well- AC's should have been burst-fire for the same reasons lasers were made "burn" DoT. Aimed, accurate damage breaks Battletech's damage modeling, which is why the meta worships the AC and PPC. They're the most reliable weapons that deliver that focused damage, something that never should have happened in the first place. Adding further armor would merely make those weapons MORE attractive, simply because they'd cut through the increased armor best, and scatter would be even more of a detriment for any weapon that does have it.

Quote

With the balance to the clans that Mechwarrior Online intends to implement everyone will end up using the same clan mech in other words the Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) and the inner sphere mechs would become obsolete. Mechwarrior Online could be one of the greatest games if inner sphere light, medium and heavy mechs had Hatchet, Stealth Armor, Bloodhound Active Probe, Angel ECM Suite, Triple Strength Myomer to get pass the clan’s superior fire power at medium to long range while relaying the targeting information to the heavy and assault mechs on their base with ELRM. One of the most important reasons why I am House Liao is because of the stealth armor of their Death Commandos.

Most of what you're describing doesn't show up for another decade or more- most notably, stealth armor debuts in 3063. The problem is that MWO is attempting to "unify" two things that really, REALLY don't belong together. Clan tech, and IS tech. Further, Clan weaponry is just going to magnify the basic flaws in weapon design for MWO- again, AC's and PPC's are the big ones here. The only way to "intergrate" Clantech into IS forces is to nerf it into the ground, while keeping it separated to Clan forces allow for numerical and tonnage disparity as balancing measures.

The era of "shadow" Capellan forces is a bit down the line, though there's plenty of tools now that would deepen the game, like 'Mech-portable artillery (Arrow IV)- which happens to be a very Capellan tool! We're the first "modern" force to intergrate them, after all. Hatchets would be a fun melee weapon, though more a Davion/Steiner weapon at this point- the Vindi-6L with it's TSM-powered sword is a Jihad-era design. TSM of course comes to Liao in 3050 as well, but without melee combat, it's heat-activated boosts only provide limited benefits such as increased ground speed. In the hot-running MWO universe, this is still a handy benefit, though!

But I digress. This is supposed to be about Clan technology.

MWO's initial angle for it is ripe for one thing. Failure- it will not add to the game so much as it will reduce the actual flavor of the system, and that is a damn shame. I expected to fight Clan forces with Clan 'Mechs, not Timber Wolves painted in Davion colors.

[Yokomohoyo]

wanderer, on 25 February 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

If you knew TT, you'd also know you can't target the head with a targeting computer. Now, I'll agree that the single-shot AC model is not only broken in terms of MWO, but canonically as well- AC's should have been burst-fire for the same reasons lasers were made "burn" DoT. Aimed, accurate damage breaks Battletech's damage modeling, which is why the meta worships the AC and PPC. They're the most reliable weapons that deliver that focused damage, something that never should have happened in the first place. Adding further armor would merely make those weapons MORE attractive, simply because they'd cut through the increased armor best, and scatter would be even more of a detriment for any weapon that does have it.

You are right about the targeting computer I had forgotten about it not being able to target the head since I haven’t played Battletech in more than 10 years and a long time ago when I played the Mechwarrior computer game I think that the way they dealt with targeting computer was to have an incredible amount of zoom making it easier to target the head. The perfect way to deal with targeting computer would be to have a lock on screen similar to a missile lock but a different color like green.

Again you are right that adding further armor would make weapons that deliver that focused damage more attractive, and scatter would be even more of a detriment for any weapon that does have it. You can eliminate the focused damage problem by having all weapons deliver focused damage because I don’t see the possibility of having a DOT AC/20 without having ammo problems. You can eliminate the scatter problem for all weapons except missile weapons with targeting computers which are available to both clan and inner sphere (3062). Scatter problem with missile weapons could be a problem but maybe it could be eliminated by letting Streak, Artemis IV, TAG and NARC reduce or eliminate scatter. Personally I never used missile weapons in Battletech because I found them useless due to the scatter problems, anti-missile weapons and that on a bad roll only 6 out of the 20 missiles hit their target. In Battletech I did use Arrow IV Artillery which didn’t have any of the problems of missile weapons and had an extremely long range.

wanderer, on 25 February 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

The only way to "intergrate" Clantech into IS forces is to nerf it into the ground, while keeping it separated to Clan forces allow for numerical and tonnage disparity as balancing measures.

Nerfing the successful to buff the failures is the basis of socialism and it is the recipe for a fiasco. Instead of nerfing the successful like the clans just remove the nerfs like DOT, ghost heat, double heatsinks, missile evasion, inability to target lock with Guardian ECM, etc. but give inner sphere the tools they need to succeed plus a buff of armor and ammo to everyone to give an equal opportunity to succeed. The biggest mistake made to the Battletech world was made with the introduction of the highly successful clans without giving an equal opportunity to succeed to inner sphere but in time they learned from this mistake and rectified it. Mechwarrior Online intends to repeat this mistake because those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

[wanderer]

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You can eliminate the focused damage problem by having all weapons deliver focused damage because I don’t see the possibility of having a DOT AC/20 without having ammo problems. You can eliminate the scatter problem for all weapons except missile weapons with targeting computers which are available to both clan and inner sphere (3062). Scatter problem with missile weapons could be a problem but maybe it could be eliminated by letting Streak, Artemis IV, TAG and NARC reduce or eliminate scatter. Personally I never used missile weapons in Battletech because I found them useless due to the scatter problems, anti-missile weapons and that on a bad roll only 6 out of the 20 missiles hit their target. In Battletech I did use Arrow IV Artillery which didn’t have any of the problems of missile weapons and had an extremely long range.

You realize that focused damage is the problem, and want to "eliminate" it by REDUCING scatter?
I guess you weren't around for the joys of Streaks being CT-seeking death launchers, or PGI accidentaly making missles cluster so well they cored 'Mechs without trying. Or the reasons they adopted the burn mechanic from MWLL for lasers- because focused damage turns the damage location system meaningless. Burst-fire AC's will hardly render them useless- you just won't be able to massively reduce your TTK vs. other weapon types because the AC lacks the spread mechanics (along with the PPC) every single other weapon has in the game. (Gauss are simply much harder to precision aim and recharge slowly to boot.)

Quote

Nerfing the successful to buff the failures is the basis of socialism and it is the recipe for a fiasco. Instead of nerfing the successful like the clans just remove the nerfs like DOT, ghost heat, double heatsinks, missile evasion, inability to target lock with Guardian ECM, etc. but give inner sphere the tools they need to succeed plus a buff of armor and ammo to everyone to give an equal opportunity to succeed.

I think you missed my point. I don't want Clantech nerfed into the ground. I want Clanners to have better tech but smaller forces compared to an IS opponent to make up for it.

Remove damage spread and we're not playing anything except Core-The-Warrior Online. Lack of spread is what has turned multiple weapons into broken ones until fixed- making all weapons equally broken is not the solution. Not for the Clans, the IS, or anyone.

[Kyrie]

I was always concerned with the timeline for this game, given the proximity to Clan Tech. Clan Tech barely makes any sense in the TT, and certainly does not make sense in an online shooter type game when its Clan Tech vs I.S. and you can actually aim at stuff.

The idea behind several often repeated posts to balance authentic Clan Tech vs. I.S. through number of mechs makes no sense to me on several levels. The first problem is that actual membership in the Clans is not required to own a Clan Mech, players in Houses will be driving these mechs. Consequently we will have Davions, Kuritans, Steiners, FRR'ers, Liaotians, Mariks... all potentially driving their shiny Clan mechs. Mind you this makes no sense in and of itself, but that is the reality that PGI has committed us all to by selling Clan mechs to everyone. This is a rather annoying problem in my mind as it destroys quite a bit of suspension-of-disbelief, immersion into the roleplaying behind CW and the BT lore.

The second problem is implied by the previous: there will be no meaningful "Clan invasion" in the sense of the BT lore, since both IS players and Clan players will have access to exactly the same tech.

The third and most compelling problem in the suggested approach of balance of "real" Clan Tech via numbers should be relatively clear from a simple play-ability perspective: no one wants to rush in charging a guy with a rifle when you are armed with a spear. Somewhat like the Zulu warriors armed with spears charging the British soldiers armed with rifles in that movie from the 60s ¹... It isn't fun game play except on the Clan side.

PGI's idea to try and balance I.S. vs Clans might or might not work, but it is an unfortunate necessity. Clan Tech vs. I.S. barely made any sense at all in the TT, attempting to implement it in an online shooter where you aim weapons without much if any random elements is really kind of absurd.

___________
¹ Thanks to the miraculous powers of Google: http://en.wikipedia....ulu_(1964_film)

Edited by Kyrie, 27 February 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Kyrie, on 27 February 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

I was always concerned with the timeline for this game, given the proximity to Clan Tech. Clan Tech barely makes any sense in the TT, and certainly does not make sense in an online shooter type game when its Clan Tech vs I.S. and you can actually aim at stuff.

The idea behind several often repeated posts to balance authentic Clan Tech vs. I.S. through number of mechs makes no sense to me on several levels. The first problem is that actual membership in the Clans is not required to own a Clan Mech, players in Houses will be driving these mechs. Consequently we will have Davions, Kuritans, Steiners, FRR'ers, Liaotians, Mariks... all potentially driving their shiny Clan mechs. Mind you this makes no sense in and of itself, but that is the reality that PGI has committed us all to by selling Clan mechs to everyone. This is a rather annoying problem in my mind as it destroys quite a bit of suspension-of-disbelief, immersion into the roleplaying behind CW and the BT lore.

MM can fix this ie;

12 mechs vs 10 how it's done

the MM is goverend by {via todays announcment}

ELO
CLASS
Tonnage

modify

ELO
Class
tech
tonnage

so

A clan team ie; ghostbears, wolf, jade falcons, smoke jaguar, nova cats, diamond and bloodspirit etc etc

Those teams would be able to field;



615 tons

Pure clan tech only


IS teams ie; kurita, stiener davion etc would be able to field both types of tech if someone wants to play with their friends with a clan mech on an IS team via salvage

700 tons IS material
150 tons clan material

Both tech

now lets match up.

2x4x2x2 IS
1 heavy or assault clan
1 light or medium clan
for the IS team

2x4x2x2 for the clan team

2 higlander, 2 cataphract, 4 shadow hawk, 2 firestarter, 1 direwolf, 1 nova.
620 IS tons + 150 clan tons

vs

1 dire wolf, 1 warhawk, 1 summoner, 1 timberwolf, 2 stormcrow, 2 nova, 2 kitfox
600tons

Note: MM for clans will be easier with more mech tonnages available. {Especially 60-65t maddog and hellbringer}

With this style of system the clanners are happy cause they’d need some TT weapon values to compete and it would obey lore values and stars instead of lances. The IS are happy cause they won’t feel underpowered, they can field what they want and don’t face an OP team with the helpers on their side. feel free to play around with these parameters and try finding an IS team that is grossly out gunned and armoured if something similar to the TT equipment/weapons standard remains. most of the time the IS can field 100+tons against the clans as well as 2 extra players another 2 that have the "OP" tech as well, clans won't get extra armour so they'd need their xl's and a little weapon love. pgi won't have to break everything to get it all into line, nerfing clans won't need to be so much and it now looks like an achievable task.

in other match ups a different limiter would be used for 10vs10 pure clans and 12vs12 pure IS. pilots and thier mechs grouped or lone wolfing which fit the IS vs Clan profile system best will be matched up. it would be the rarest matchup scenario but it aloows all players to be happy on all occasions.

it's possible. just need the devs to test it!
It’s the best compromise to appease everyone.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 27 February 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[Yokomohoyo]

wanderer, on 27 February 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

You realize that focused damage is the problem, and want to "eliminate" it by REDUCING scatter?
I guess you weren't around for the joys of Streaks being CT-seeking death launchers, or PGI accidentaly making missles cluster so well they cored 'Mechs without trying. Or the reasons they adopted the burn mechanic from MWLL for lasers- because focused damage turns the damage location system meaningless. Burst-fire AC's will hardly render them useless- you just won't be able to massively reduce your TTK vs. other weapon types because the AC lacks the spread mechanics (along with the PPC) every single other weapon has in the game. (Gauss are simply much harder to precision aim and recharge slowly to boot.)

Sorry for taking so long to reply but English is not my first language and I think we have a communications problem so I had to find my old Battletech rulebook before replying. When I am referring to scatter I am referring to the only two types of weapons that I know that are capable to damage more than a single location or in other words lbx autocannons and missile launchers. I think the scatter you are referring to is the random hit location table which doesn’t make sense in a computer game where you are clearly aiming at the head to hit the leg. I just want to keep things as simple as possible by having weapons to deal the same type of damage like the Battletech rules where all weapon damage is instantaneous. Remove all the weapon nerfs and let them be as powerful as in the Battletech rules but give extra armor and ammo to compensate. Eliminating the nerfs out of the equation makes it a simple mathematical equation of deciding if you like direct or indirect fire, ammo limitations or no ammo problems, short range or long range, etc.

wanderer, on 27 February 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

I think you missed my point. I don't want Clantech nerfed into the ground. I want Clanners to have better tech but smaller forces compared to an IS opponent to make up for it.

You don’t want Clantech nerfed into the ground but you want the Clanners nerf by handicapping them to take piety on the Inner Sphere because you have no faith on the Inner Sphere’s power to succeed. I on the other hand want the Inner Sphere to have access to their best unique technologies so they can compete head to head with the Clans without any nerfing necessary. Kyrie & GalaxyBluestar share your point of view which is the popular point of view because people find it necessary to have compassion for the less fortunate. I on the other hand have no compassion for the less fortunate I just want them to have the tools they need to be successful on their own. Unfortunately for me in the world we live in my point of view is considered evil.

wanderer, on 27 February 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

Remove damage spread and we're not playing anything except Core-The-Warrior Online. Lack of spread is what has turned multiple weapons into broken ones until fixed- making all weapons equally broken is not the solution. Not for the Clans, the IS, or anyone.

I don’t know what game of Battletech you played when Technical Readout 3050 came around, but my game was called Core-The-Mech 3050. With the introduction of targeting computers coring a mech was as easy as pie. When 3050 came out all my friends believed the 75 ton Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) was ton for ton most powerful mech ever invented but I showed them the light and ended the debate of which mech the was the most powerful mech ever by Coring a Timber Wolf in three turns or less for three straight games with one or two 20 ton Fire Moths (Dasher) D. The Timber Wolf has 9 rear center torso armor plus 23 internal structure for a grand total of 32. The Fire Moth D has five ER Medium Lasers, a Flamer and a Targeting Computer which makes it capable of delivering up to 7*5+2=37 damage to the center torso rear without any problems which is enough to destroy a Timber Wolf in one turn.

[wanderer]

And apparently, none of your friends figured out that firing aimed shots with a targeting computer is at +3 to hit.

That means, BTW that given an average (Gunnery 3) Clan pilot and short range, you have a base 6 on 2d6 to hit your target.

Assuming nobody moved. And you had a short range shot. And you moved last (that is, you won init) so you had a back shot. And your opponent didn't know what cover meant or have the brains to use it, or cover each other with overlapping fields of fire. Odds are, you ran and if they had half a brain, they ran too and at least torso twisted to bring their own arm mounts to bear. You DID include that +3 for aimed shots and realized you also don't get the -1 for a targeting comp using aimed fire, right?

Fire Moths can't even take an MPL hit (6 points) without going internal and an LPL (10 points) will destroy any section save the CT from the front in a single shot- including the head. The CT gets away with 1 point of internal structure. They're outarmored by a stock Locust, FFS.

Even in the wide open, if he's smart he runs in a straight line (+3 to hit him and you'll have to move to keep up, so at least +1 more)- base 10's on 2d6 to hit with an aimed shot. He twists and fires at you with the arm-mounted LPL + SPL. +3 for you at MOST, +2 for his run, -2 for pulses = base 6 to hit or better. The SPL will take two hits to breach any location, but hey- if it hits anywhere twice...and he only has to hit you once with the LPL to either mobility kill you (leg), burn off at least two lasers (and if he hits RT, the tarcomp is automatically scrap to boot and you have 1 ER ML left to your name), headcap you, or leave you with 1 point of internals in your CT and a distinct possibility of engine damage, gyro damage, or both (or destruction of either).

So, assuming your opponent had two brain cells, how were you easily one-shotting Timber Wolves?

[Yokomohoyo]

wanderer, on 28 February 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

So, assuming your opponent had two brain cells, how were you easily one-shotting Timber Wolves?

Sorry for creating all the confusion with the Fire Moths (Dasher) D vs Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) but I will try to explained it as detailed as possible to clarify any doubts. In my previous post I wrote

Yokomohoyo, on 28 February 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

Coring a Timber Wolf in three turns or less for three straight games with one or two 20 ton Fire Moths (Dasher) D.

What I failed to explain was that the three games of the Fire Moths D vs Timber Wolf were not a one on one game they were star (2 Fire Moth D, 2 Stormcrow B, 1 Timber Wolf C) vs star (2 Adder A, 2 Viper B, 1 Timber Wolf C) games that came about because one of the players in our Mechwarrior RPG campaign was complaining that giving him a Fire Moth D was an unfair punishment. For this battle we used the standard primary clan mechwarrior archetype from the Mechwarrior RPG 2nd Ed with a Gunnery/Mech 4(2+) and Edge 2 which means he/she hits on 2+ with 2 rerolls. I did not send 1 lone Fire Moth to deal with the Timber Wolf I always sent 2 and on the three games only once did a single Fire Moth manage to kill the Timber Wolf. His star was full of long range weapons so he put his mechs on the highest mountains he could find in the first turn and did not move them afterwards. My star was full of short range weapons including 2 Ultra AC/20s so I ran full speed ahead with everything except my Timber Wolf. It takes 2 to 3 turns for a Fire Moth to cross the entire map with the final move as a walk but it all depends if MASC fails or succeeds. The difficulty for a primary clan mechwarrior to target the exposed rear center torso of a mech that did not move with a mech that walked is 2+3+1=6 plus 2 rerolls. To be fair he was more afraid of the 2 Ultra AC/20s and twice he managed to kill a Stormcrow before I killed his Timber Wolf. After those three games our Mechwarrior RPG games turned into Core-The-Mech 3050 when we achieved a Gunnery/Mech of 6(0+) we stayed back with our Warhawks (Masakari) C and targeted the center torso front of all mechs which we managed to hit on 0+3+enemy movement+enemy cover-2(large pulse lasers). Those were sad days for Inner Sphere.

P.S.: I am going to buy obsidian black color which is up for sale on March 2 for my Death Commandos. Too bad they don’t sell the Death Commandos insignia.

Edited by Yokomohoyo, 01 March 2014 - 07:38 PM.

[Nemesis Wolf]

Honestly if you truly want the "Clan" experience to be more Clan like, Instead of Messing with the heat, damage, weight and ranges, adhere to the true "Clan" concept. During a match Limit the #of Omni-Mechs (Clan Mechs) to 10 Mechs for their team (A Binary) and Allow the IS Team the Usual 12. Right now by tinkering with the Weights, Damage, Range and Heat, you completely defeat the point of the Clans in the first place. Its their Battle style and advanced tech that truly makes them different. The fact that they would engage IS Mechs with a Smaller # is due to their techological superiority.

Their 10 Mechs Are a match for 12, Keep these mechanics in place, that said, Clan Mechs should NEVER be paired with IS mechs during a match, If you pilot a clan mech you should expect to be paired with 9 other clanners NOT 11 other pilots from the IS (This restriction could be lifted during a private match). Yes, you may think that forcing people to fight using the Clans battle conventions would be limiting and thus less fun, but you'd be wrong. Most of us are familiar with the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe and choose to play the game for that reason, don't destroy that experience by making the Clans an IS variant of the game because no mater what you do 12 IS Mech vs 12 Clan mechs will never be fair, so 10 Clan vs 12 IS is more than fair. Nor should an IS Team ever have clan mechs on it.

You chose to make a Battletech/Mechwarrior game, if you're going to change it that much then please, rename the game to Not-Mechwarrior Online or something completely unrelated and redesign and name the mechs as it simply wouldn't be Mechwarrior with all those changes.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

FEEDBACK: Your new blue on blue for admin post is not easy on the eyes. Change the text to gold or something.

[Silverlance]

So much talk about nerfing, tactics and blah blah blah.
After reading the guidelines post by the admins and what they're planning for clans. It makes me sick. Face facts: Clans were superior in every. Single. Way. Weight, damage, etc. Why should I have to run a nerfed Storm Crow or Timberwolf that has the same damage as an IS mech, with MORE heat btw, when I can save money, not buy the clan mechs, and still run an IS mech with less heat and no changes? Does that make any sense at all? You're not adding anything new, other than shiny new mech models to run around in.
I agree whole heartedly to leave clan mechs and their technology alone as they were intended to be, and reduce the number of clan mechs dropping against an entire IS group. 10 Clan Mechs vs 12 IS Mechs? Don't make me laugh, my Timber Wolf Prime would easily chew through a lance by itself anyway. 8 Clan Mechs vs 12 IS Mechs sounds a whole lot better to me. That way, us glorious clanners get all our honor. You IS get to field your five Atlas groups with the current meta. And both sides will have to change tactics to play and survive. No nerfing needed. So instead of going through all that useless programming on so many different clan mechs and their tech, you can just tweak the matchmaker like a previous post stated and implement some refined criteria for it and everyone gets what they want with half the work and less complaints from people like me who are already displeased with this bullshit you call Mechwarrior. The only reason I keep playing is because it's the only mech game that even remotely resembles mechwarrior available today. Silence the masses of displeased people all at once by not working more, but working smarter and using your brains. But like another post stated, for a company that went from making a fishing game that couldn't even cut it for Facebook to making a game like Mechwarrior, you sure did give it a hell of a try and you've done a decent amount of good. But a whooole lot of bad that you try to spoon feed us while taking our money and expecting us to be happy and follow your rules and guidelines about courtesy. Yah, like that'll ever happen in any online game ever.
Anyway. In short. I'm tired. I'm going to go and meta my butt off because that's the only way to play this game. I'm going to troll people with my 733c and hope that in the end, you'll see the light of truth and leave clan tech alone and the way it should be and instead utilize the matchmaker to do the "nerfing" for you.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

probably why they do not have a whole lot of sales yet. They said they will be no better. Nerfed until there is no difference. But turn around and charge a price for way better. I mean, other than some of them look cool. Why pay more for less?

[Karl Streiger]

I won't call a 12ton GaussRifle a nerf...
or a 10t UAC10 or a 8crit 12t UAC 20
or a 1crit 4t ER-Large Laser
to nerf them means simple to make them equal in stats to the IS-weapons.... the reduced weight and size is buff enough.

And please stop complaining about how Clans are nerfed (we don't know anything about clan tech but a rough sketch - the rest is TT knowlege - and that PGI won't mess with criticals and weapon weights)

I'm pretty sure there will be enough river of tears and hate at June 17th - crying P2W - broken promises

OH BTW:
I didn't have bought me a clan package either - a question of pride

Edited by Karl Streiger, 14 April 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[wanderer]

Karl Streiger, on 14 April 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

I won't call a 12ton GaussRifle a nerf...
or a 10t UAC10 or a 8crit 12t UAC 20
or a 1crit 4t ER-Large Laser
to nerf them means simple to make them equal in stats to the IS-weapons.... the reduced weight and size is buff enough.

balance
I don't think you get it. They're making the entire 'Mech equivalent to an IS one, within 5 tons, in terms of balance and performance.

To do that, given what they cannot nerf, you're looking at a Clan rifle that performs at roughly 80% of an IS one, likewise with that ER LL. That "within 5 tons" is stated from PGI. Exactly how? We don't know. But to get their desired results, given that tonnage and crits cannot be altered, performance is the only available option.