1978 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

HSR is bad and Hitboxes may be bad - but that doesn't have anything to do with Clan Weapon and balancing.
-> coding weapons stats may the work of a day for a 13year old student that sits for the first time ins his life in front of a PC
(only have to tell him where he should insert which numbers)

The only thing that needs coding - is switchable ammunition, and burst fire Auto Cannons, but when it was made right in first step its again only the work of typing numbers

[wanderer]

So, in the face of the coding oops that let us experience Clan missile launchers early- what did you think of the experience?

[FupDup]

wanderer, on 21 May 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

So, in the face of the coding oops that let us experience Clan missile launchers early- what did you think of the experience?

I've seen this rumor around the forums when I logged in today. Is there an official source for it?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. However, I'm pretty sure the damage falloff is supposed to be for when the target is less than 180m away, with damage being full once you get out of 180m. Right now they're doing less damage pretty much EVERYWHERE.

Edited by FupDup, 21 May 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[Name140704]

Mystere, on 15 December 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

I am sorry to say this but, this is the second most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard of.

Why not just have Thor's magical hammer fall down from the sky and strike the mechwarrior dead by flattening his omnimech like a pancake?

And I am saying "second" only because something actually beats yours.

I thought for sure #1 would have been one of BLOOD WOLF's golden nuggets

[The Wakelord]

Would it be an option to help balance the OP of the Clan Mechs that each clan mech be worth 1.5 IS mechs?

eg: 12 IS vs 8 clans

[Karl Streiger]

The Wakelord, on 21 May 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

Would it be an option to help balance the OP of the Clan Mechs that each clan mech be worth 1.5 IS mechs?

eg: 12 IS vs 8 clans

This was ask many times - but it wont work -> look the Clan Mechs are not better armored...so what will happen when you shoot with 12 IS Mechs on 8 IS Mechs? They are toast.
Even when those ClanMechs deal more damage at more range you still have the problem that they can't take what they give.

[Sergeant Random]

What if Clan mechs were released with incredible agility?

[Karl Streiger]

Sergeant Random, on 27 May 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

What if Clan mechs were released with incredible agility?

I expect the Thor and TImberwolf to me more agile as all current available heavy mechs - but the Dire Wolf have to be a brick on legs - if it will become to mobile it will hardly have any weakspot

[KuroNyra]

Karl Streiger, on 27 May 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

I expect the Thor and TImberwolf to me more agile as all current available heavy mechs - but the Dire Wolf have to be a brick on legs - if it will become to mobile it will hardly have any weakspot

the Dire Wolf wouldn't have speed problem with the police on the highway that's for sur!

[SirLANsalot]

KuroNyra, on 27 May 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

the Dire Wolf wouldn't have speed problem with the police on the highway that's for sur!

Most re-tarded Atlas pilots do tho, because its got a 300XL and thats "too slow" for a 100 ton WALKING DEATH.

Let me emphasize that more. 100 TON WALKING DEATH

Atlas's and Dire Wolve's are 100 ton mechs packing a lot of firepower, speed is not what they were built for, and trying to make and atlas (at least) go over 65kph is just a waste of a mech (anything over 350STD).

[zenstrata]

Being able to customize engine size is incredibly important. I think removing this is a very bad move.

[Yokomohoyo]

zenstrata, on 04 June 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

Being able to customize engine size is incredibly important. I think removing this is a very bad move.

You are completely right but the designers don’t seem to understand what this does or how it will affect the game. I will point out the problems that MechWarrior Online’s nerfs will create but no one has been able to notice them.

1) Since the Clans can’t change their engines; and speed is what you want in a light mech, no one will use any light mechs with speeds less than 97.2 km/h which is the speed of the Stormcrow (Ryoken). This means that the Kit Fox (Uller) & Adder (Puma) are useless. The Nova (Black Hawk) has jump jets so it will be useful as a poptarter until a better mech comes along. The inability to customize mechs has made the poorly designed Clan mechs useless without even a single shot fired while the poorly designed Inner Sphere can remain useful with customization. The lack of customization will make only 4 mechs useful: the fastest mech (Stormcrow), the poptarter (Nova), the LRM support (Timber Wolf) & the all-around or optimal mech (Timber Wolf). Clan mechs with Ferro-Fibrous only, will become obsolete instantly since decreases the mechs critical slots by 7 for a minimal tonnage gain.

2) Clan XL engines don’t explode when you destroy the left or right torso it requires the destruction of both the left and right or the center torso but in MechWarrior Online they will probably explode when you destroy the left or right torso to nerf Clan mechs so they resemble Inner Sphere mechs. There is no information published on the Clan XL engines in MechWarrior Online but I always assume the worst.

3) Clan LRMs will get nerfed so they will be almost useless compared with SSRMs because Clan SSRMs have a decent range, weight less, are less bulky, aren’t affected by AMS & you don’t need to keep the target locked till missiles hit plus they have more ammo per ton. The designers don’t understand the difference between LRMs & SSRMs so they want to nerf Clan LRMs. To start SSRMs should not get a target lock beyond their range much less fire at a target beyond their range nor should they fire if there is something blocking access to the target like a friendly mech. Unfortunately in MechWarrior Online SSRMs don’t work like they are supposed to, but their weight, size, the ability to bypass AMS plus more ammo per ton makes them a lot more useful than LRMs which usually run out of ammo in 5 minutes or less and require the mech to be built completely around them since they are very heavy and take up a lot of space.

4) The effects of a Null Signature System in the world of MechWarrior Online plus an ECM that makes targets invisible to targeting systems beyond 200m will make Clans that don’t like stealth unstoppable with their superior weapons. In Battletech everyone has decent sensors so they know where every mech is and what weapons they have, making mechs with AC/20s & UAC/20s priority targets for first kill. This absurd Null Signature System allows an AC/20 to be the best weapon in the game because it can hide till you are on top of the enemy and there is nothing they can do about it. To make matters worse mechs with AC/20 can play peekaboo to bypass their cooldown and there is nothing you can do about it because if you rush the AC/20 mech there could be 11 mechs besides him hidden from the useless MechWarrior Online sensors by the Null Signature System and possibly ECM invisibility. They had to nerf the AC/20 so you won’t be able to use 2 of them. Take away the Null Signature System and ECM invisibility from Clans and Inner Sphere can compete head to head with the Clans without all the absurd nerfs that have made the AC/2, Ghost Rifle and others useless. Use math, statistics & common sense as the guideline for the game, instead of using feedback from crybabies. Battletech used math, statistics & common sense for their weapons and created a simple equation with ACs that at more range less damage plus at less damage less heat. Due to the feedback from crybabies someone decided in patch 1.3.283 to make Mechwarrior Online AC/2 do less damage, generate a lot more heat and have less range than the AC/5, but it doesn’t take a math genius to figure out that the AC/2 is now useless. The AC/2 was the ultimate weapon for medium mechs to harass other mechs since they have the superior speed to keep out of the range of heavier mechs. Now medium mechs have to use the ER PPC to harass other mechs which is more effective in the hands of the faster light mechs. Ghost Rifle which is Inner Sphere’s best range weapon was made even more powerful by MechWarrior Online’s heat, double heatsink, ghost heat and other nerfs but they nerfed the Ghost Rifle with a 0.75 firing delay making it useless because no target is going to wait 0.75 for you to fire at him unless it is a rock. The Ghost Rifle firing delay is so bad that I will not use it even with the current Patch 1.3.358 nerf to ACs & UACs making the Ghost Rifle the longest range weapon but still useless. The Clans have more powerful ranged weapons like ER PPC (which they can actually use even with the absurd ER PPC heat nerf), UAC/10, ER LL, etc. so the nerf to the Ghost Rifle is meaningless to them but it leaves Inner Sphere without any viable long range treat. On the current Patch 1.3.358 they nerfed the more expensive, bulkier, heavier and jam prone UAC/5 so it has less range than the cheaper, lighter and smaller AC/5 so basically Clan UACs are going to be inferior to Inner Sphere ACs. Please stop with the nerfs! Use math, statistics & common sense for game balance not feedback from crybabies.

5) The nerfs are never going to end because once you start nerfing you can never stop. The recent tonnage nerf with the Matchmaker has made what was once a fast game that you could play even in your lunch hour, an ordeal that ends up with a game that has a few mechs AFK or disconnected because of rage quit while waiting. This game requires a lot of grinding for XPs and C-Bills but with the Matchmaker that grinding has come to screeching halt making Premium Time less valuable. I would love to see competitive gamming in MechWarrior Online but not at the loss XPs and C-Bills grinding. If Inner Sphere had the tools they need to compete with the Clans head to head there wouldn’t be a need for a Matchmaker nerf. I am against nerfs but if there must be a Matchmaker nerf make it for competitive play only and have an option for to opt out for XPs and C-Bills grinding or make it Matchmaker only but double the XPs and C-Bills.

6) With the nerfing obsession in MechWarrior Online we are going to end with a game that has 2 almost identical factions that are mediocre in everything. The Dire Wolf Prime with a cost of 29,350,000 C-bills is going to be nerfed to assimilate an Atlas AS7-K with a cost of 13,691,066 C-bills. This is the basis for socialism and it is the recipe for a fiasco. Why would anyone spend 30K C-bills in a mech if you can get the same result at less than half the cost, this is why there are no billionaires in socialist countries because who wants to work hard to achieve the same results as those that don’t work. Trying to create equality of outcome is a fiasco, instead provide equality of opportunity and let them compete head to head. I want MechWarrior Online to provide equality of opportunity to Inner Sphere by giving them access to their unique technologies like Hatchet, Stealth Armor, Bloodhound Active Probe, Angel ECM Suite, Triple Strength Myomer, ELRM, etc. plus get rid of the Null Signature System and ECM invisibility at least for Clan mechs but to be fair it should be gone for both factions because of what use is Stealth Armor if you can get the exact same results with ECM and practically the same results for free with the Null Signature System effect in the world of MechWarrior Online. Everyone should be able to target and get complete information of all mechs that don’t have Stealth Armor and aren’t shutdown but to get a missile lock, someone must have line of sight to the target or be within sensor range of target but not necessarily the one that is doing the missile lock.

7) In conclusion it appears that Clan mechs will be slower than Inner Sphere mechs, have XL engines that explode from the destruction of a side torso like Inner Sphere mechs, UACs with less range than Inner Sphere ACs, cost a lot more than Inner Sphere mechs and on top of it all have a tonnage nerf with the Matchmaker. The notable exception to the slower Clan mechs is the Timber Wolf.

Edited by Yokomohoyo, 06 June 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[Phlinger]

I know that in 100 pages of mostly negative feedback this has to have been mentioned more than a few times. But in their nerfing the weapons via heatscale, they are effectively removing some of the stock builds that the clans mechs come with. The Clan ER Medium laser, they used the large laser in the example, but I'm pretty sure this applies to the medium, and most likely more. They reduced the range of the ER Large and made the heatscale impact it more so to avoid high damage Alpha's.

Why even release the Nova prime? It fires 12 ER Medium lasers, the mech was designed around this.

With the changes a Hunchback can field a better loadout than a Summoner AND weigh 20 tons less. A Shadowhawk, one of the first heavily used mechs in the lore, is more customizable than a mech that was designed for customization over 500 years later.

I realize that the Meta-Game will suffer some changes and many will cry over how their Victors are less effective in competitions, but seriously, wake up.

My biggest disappointment is them changing the heat Scale of the Clan weapons AFTER they made the Clan mechs less customizable. So not only will you able to do less with these new mechs, they will generate more heat.

[Reno Blade]

Ronyn, on 06 June 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

I know that in 100 pages of mostly negative feedback this has to have been mentioned more than a few times. But in their nerfing the weapons via heatscale, they are effectively removing some of the stock builds that the clans mechs come with. The Clan ER Medium laser, they used the large laser in the example, but I'm pretty sure this applies to the medium, and most likely more. They reduced the range of the ER Large and made the heatscale impact it more so to avoid high damage Alpha's.

Why even release the Nova prime? It fires 12 ER Medium lasers, the mech was designed around this.

With the changes a Hunchback can field a better loadout than a Summoner AND weigh 20 tons less. A Shadowhawk, one of the first heavily used mechs in the lore, is more customizable than a mech that was designed for customization over 500 years later.

I realize that the Meta-Game will suffer some changes and many will cry over how their Victors are less effective in competitions, but seriously, wake up.

My biggest disappointment is them changing the heat Scale of the Clan weapons AFTER they made the Clan mechs less customizable. So not only will you able to do less with these new mechs, they will generate more heat.

Not really.

Nobody said that you should be able to shoot 12 ERML in one volley with a Nova.
You can barely shoot 12 lasers anyway. (TT heat is 5 = 60 heat for one full volley).
If you are shooting one arm with 6 lasers and then 0.5+ seconds later the other 6 you will have NO extra heat from heatscale.

If the 0.5sec makes the Nova impossible to play, or useless, you are doing it wrong.

Edited by Reno Blade, 06 June 2014 - 09:37 AM.

[Phlinger]

Reno Blade, on 06 June 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Not really.

Nobody said that you should be able to shoot 12 ERML in one volley with a Nova.
You can barely shoot 12 lasers anyway. (TT heat is 5 = 60 heat for one full volley).
If you are shooting one arm with 6 lasers and then 0.5+ seconds later the other 6 you will have NO extra heat from heatscale.

If the 0.5sec makes the Nova impossible to play, or useless, you are doing it wrong.

Nah, I'm being very realistic. How many times can a Nova shoot one arm in the prime build?

They stated in the original post that ERLarge lasers were getting effected even more by heatscale. I'd assume that means that Clan weapons are going to get hit HARD with ghost heat, even more so than Inner Sphere lasers currently are.

[SofaSurfer]

Balancing is simple.

The only right thing to do would be to start of with 2 stars (5 omnimechs/star) having it's go at the 3 lances of IS mechs we have today. Though I belive the omnis would still prevail.
Then you can start implement the things you have come up with, like the lasers having longer firing time, ssrm's only leaving rack in pairs etc, as further balancing. All which sounds good to me. But DO NOT touch tonage or crit slots!

With this said, I take for granted that I dont have to fight alongside any IS scum in my 30$ mech. That would be the ultimate lore breaker! Similar thing in a similar game set in the WWII era have made me trash bin it. Nothing worst than ending up on the same side as what should be your enemy, and then if you do the right thing which is to pop him, you get banned for an hour. WTF is that!?

Keep up the good work.
Regards from the sofa.

[wanderer]

Quote

With this said, I take for granted that I dont have to fight alongside any IS scum in my 30$ mech. That would be the ultimate lore breaker! Similar thing in a similar game set in the WWII era have made me trash bin it. Nothing worst than ending up on the same side as what should be your enemy, and then if you do the right thing which is to pop him, you get banned for an hour. WTF is that!?

What will happen to you here when you start TK'ing, of course.

Clan and IS will be mixed without regard in the PUG queue until and if community warfare starts. And no, you won't get your Clan stars either until Soon™, because Clantech is balanced for 12v12 pubbies going at it.