17 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

The CC post shows the "plans" (tentative) for LRM20.

For a cost of +1 heat (nothing), you get 5 less tons! That is HUGE.

But wait, there is more. You lose the 180=100 / 179=0 threshold so you can fire below the 180. They don't want a SSRM20 but at 150m that's basically what you get.

I am sure there will be lots more. I am sure they will put Ghost heat like crazy on energy weapons. But just this LRM example tells me it is clan LRM or nothing.

Now the question is can I put a clan LRM on an IS mech. If not, then it is pay-2-win until the CB variants are released.

I predict you will mostly see clan weapons in the game based on the CC post on how they will approach this. Or as a minimum there will be several families which become clan-only - like LRMs.

[Hans Von Lohman]

I bet you that Clan LRM missiles will have a minimum range. In fact it is sort of an unspoken thing for us Table Top players that the lack of a minimum range for Clan LRM missiles was a typo in the first rulebook, and they've just ran with that ever since.

The real question or not is if a Clan XL engine will kill you when you lose a side torso. In the Table Top you survive, but I am betting again that a side torso lost will net you a death.

It really boils down to how much they're going to play balance. I am assuming the fights will be a lore-friendly Binary of Clans (10 mechs) vs a company of Inner Sphere mechs (12 mechs), and no cross team technology. The advantages of being a Clan in that situation needs to be a lot less, so don't expect to be uber special with your Timber Wolf vs an Orion.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Turns out the plan is for Clan LRM's to less and less damage on a direct scale, down to 0 damage at point blank shots, but 1/2 damage at 90 meters, ect.

I wouldn't do that myself. I think LRM's need to be a fixed minimum range just like IS missiles.

[Bhael Fire]

IS will always lose in a popularity contest because Clans are cooler.

They have the fun and weird toys. Hopefully "Paul & the Gang" realize this and make accomodations for that fact.

[Ghogiel]

most of the clan mechs are going to be kinda meh or even bad due to very low stock armor.

HOWEVER the ones that are going to be good are straight up NASTY.

[Hans Von Lohman]

I would give the Clans a bit of a break and have them use a 150 meter minimum range.

There, now the Clan LRM is better, on top of the lighter launchers that take up less space as well. But, they're not super weapons either.

I am also OK with PGI making Clan LRM launchers heavier. Just down-check each launcher on Clan mechs to the next size down, so you get a stock Timber Wolf with CLRM-15's instead of 20's. I might point out the art usually displays them with CLRM-15's anyway.

[Bhael Fire]

Ghogiel, on 15 December 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

most of the clan mechs are going to be kinda meh or even bad due to very low stock armor.

HOWEVER the ones that are going to be good are straight up NASTY.

I don't envy the designers at all. They have a difficult road ahead of them.

In fact, Paul is a lot like little Frodo from the Shire.

[Axeman1]

Bhael Fire, on 15 December 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

I don't envy the designers at all. They have a difficult road ahead of them.

In fact, Paul is a lot like little Frodo from the Shire.

Yeah except Frodo didn't have a near perfect map in addition to pocket change to just hail a cab and get there with money.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Axeman1, on 15 December 2013 - 12:43 AM, said:

Yeah except Frodo didn't have a near perfect map in addition to pocket change to just hail a cab and get there with money.

I'm not following your analogy.

Are you saying you think PGI should just make the stats of the Clan weapons per the table top and call it a day?

[Axeman1]

Hans Von Lohman, on 15 December 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

I'm not following your analogy.

Are you saying you think PGI should just make the stats of the Clan weapons per the table top and call it a day?

Paul's got years worth of source material and fanbase , frodo had a walking stick, a backpack, his behind the scenes lover, and a magic ring he wasn't allowed to use.

[Kanatta Jing]

The path that PGI is taking isn't one I would take, but it is one that gets them to where we want to go.

[AlexEss]

Otoh Frodo also had a very good set of maps, a wise uncle and... oh a nigh immortal Wizard that just so happen to be from a race of close to omnipotent beings.

Adding to the complexity is the fact that the designers of the TT said that they would never ever do the clan rules the way they did if they had a second go.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Axeman1, on 15 December 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

Paul's got years worth of source material and fanbase , frodo had a walking stick, a backpack, his behind the scenes lover, and a magic ring he wasn't allowed to use.

To be fair, Frodo did have a taxi that could have flown him to Mount Doom in an afternoon. He got back home that way at any rate.

As for how to balance the Clan Weapons, that is a far more difficult thing to judge right now as we don't really have a sense on how much better a clan mech is compared to a IS one.

Saying that PGI has an over abundance of source material is true, but all of those source materials are for a turn based strategy game. Getting that stuff to work in a real time first person shooter is the trick.

We'll see how it gets balanced (and I am sure unbalanced as well), but for now I think the balance to gameplay will be having fewer clan mechs fight a full team of 12 IS mechs. Hopefully that will be a lore friendly binary, so 12 IS vs 10 Clanners.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 15 December 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[dragnier1]

I prefer clan lrms to not have the 0m bonus, even scaling makes it op. The above-mentioned restrictions of 150 seems like a good compromise, at least it doesn't make clan streak srms pointless

[NextGame]

solution to clan lrms is to give them really bad flight paths and spread, longer lock on time, and make them far more easily targetable by ams. Behold: no other stats would need adjusted.

Edited by NextGame, 15 December 2013 - 02:02 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

NextGame, on 15 December 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

solution to clan lrms is to give them really bad flight paths and spread, longer lock on time, and make them far more easily targetable by ams. Behold: no other stats would need adjusted.

This would make sense from a lore standpoint as well, because IIRC the Clans frowned upon indirect fire weapons (I.E. - LRM's, Arty). As such, these weapons would get much less attention, and the individual munitions could even realistically see a degradation in performance despite a more advanced launcher.

Not a half bad idea.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 15 December 2013 - 02:11 AM.

[Kanatta Jing]

But their already going the trapped in stock chassis in exchange for excessive freedom with the weapons payload. I'm not even sure how terrible Clan mechs are going to be even with OP weaponry.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Kanatta Jing, on 15 December 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

But their already going the trapped in stock chassis in exchange for excessive freedom with the weapons payload. I'm not even sure how terrible Clan mechs are going to be even with OP weaponry.

It would be more likely that they're trapped in stock chassis....for now.

I expect that will be one of the rules that gets relaxed as they test the Clans out between now and summer.

At least let them fuss with their armor values.