6 replies to this topic

[Kanajashi]

After reading the command chair post on Clan balance (http://mwomercs.com/...gn-perspective/) I feel compelled to warn you that the current design direction will result in multiple Clan mechs becoming unplayable in the current game systems.

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This is the core of the Mech, with all the modular bits stripped out, and what remains cannot be customized at all. These include:

• The engine type and rating
  
• The number and placement of a minimum number of heatsinks
  
• The amount and distribution of armor
  
• The armor type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Ferro-Fibrous
  
• The internal structure type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Endo Steel
  
• Enhancements such as MASC
  
• The occasional weapon or other piece of equipment (e.g. jump jets) that is included as part of the base configuration

Without the ability to modify engine size, armor values or types of upgrades (such as wanting to remove Endo/FF for more slots) many mechs will not be playable based on their TT values.

Take for example the Kit Fox (Uller), For its stock loadout it has a XL180 engine which brings it to 97.2 kph (106.92 after tweak) and 4 tons of FF armor (4 tons * 36 points/ton for ferro = 144 points). Now compare that to the current IS mechs, a Spider has a max armor of 175 and typically runs 150+ kph. There are mediums and even heavies that exist now that will be able to out run the Kit Fox. If it does not have the ability to upgrade its engine or max out its armor, it will simply be left behind as everyone continues to use their Spiders/Jenners/Ravens. I know my RVN-3L will be gobbling up Clan lights come June 17th.

I actually dare you to look into the game and try to find a Jagermech that still runs stock armor values on an account that has a halfway decent Elo.

There will be a good chassis within this system, they have enough armor stock to be survivable and have large enough engines. Prime example is the Timber Wolf (Mad Cat), It has a XL375 for 86.4 kph (95 after tweak) and 12 tons of FF armor (432 points). This will be a great 75 tonner with amazing speed and only 30 points of armor off the max that a 75 tonner can have. However the in ability to remove or change around chassis upgrades will hamper their ability to modify their loadout. Maybe I want to remove FF and downgrade the engine so I can fill up the space with DHS so I can run more/larger lasers? IS mechs will actually be more customizable in that sense when compared to Clans.

Unless there is something done to change how the Omni Mech system works there will be mechs taht are simply not played because of these restrictions. This will be even more prevalent if there is mixed tech. If I can run clan weapons on my IS mechs that don't have to deal with Omni restrictions, that will be the strongest combination.

As it stands I wont be purchasing any package, I have determined which Omni mechs will be worth my time when they actually release and I will be saving c-bills to purchase them over the next 7 months. If it changes to where you can modify your engine/armor/upgrades on Clan mechs I will run to the nearest computer and buy a Masakari pack without a second thought.

[Hans Von Lohman]

You just completely ignored this part of their post.

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Disclaimer:
While the descriptions below are the most up to date plans for Clan Tech, please be advised that ALL numbers and examples are for demonstration purposes only. Any number or description can be changed in the future, but these are the most current plans for Clan Tech and we wanted to show you the plans for clarity and transparency.

And this bit here....

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First, let’s get the obligatory disclaimer out of the way. As with all works in progress, our OmniMech design is subject to change

Or this....

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We aim to follow these as closely as possible, but the restrictions may be eased if gameplay and balance require it.

And Finnally...

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Summary:
We are being very careful when implementing Clan Tech and we hope this "Design Approach" post helps you understand the issues and how we will be dealing with them as we move ahead.

Do you perhaps see the same pattern I see here?

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 14 December 2013 - 10:58 PM.

[Kanajashi]

Hans Von Lohman, on 14 December 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

You just completely ignored this part of their post.

You seem to have missed that this is simply a warning that what they have put out currently has problems and I am pointing them out. I am showing examples of how that system breaks down so they can improve upon it. so your post has no real purpose.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Kanajashi, on 14 December 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

You seem to have missed that this is simply a warning that what they have put out currently has problems and I am pointing them out. I am showing examples of how that system breaks down so they can improve upon it. so your post has no real purpose.

You are warning them to change a design they already said they're probably going to change.

Are you really sure it was my post that was redundant here? Just saying.

No, I think the better plan is to wait and see. Come June we'll probably actually get something a bit different that isn't as restrictive.

[Kanajashi]

Hans Von Lohman, on 14 December 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

You are warning them to change a design they already said they're probably going to change.

Are you really sure it was my post that was redundant here? Just saying.

No, I think the better plan is to wait and see. Come June we'll probably actually get something a bit different that isn't as restrictive.

I agree the best thing to do is wait for more info and for the plans to change, however the plans wont change if the flaws are not pointed out. Also didn't mean any hostilities, all this clan info is messing with my head

[Hans Von Lohman]

Well, to be fair their plan sounds hugely restrictive, but it is easy to figure out why.

They're going to start with the worst case scenario first, and then start loosening the restrictions to get to that sweet spot where it is working well enough.

The litmus test for that is when the number of complaints that it is too good are about the same as the complaints that it is too bad. No joke, that is one of the metrics you see when designing games behind the scenes. An even balance of complaints for and against are equal = it is good to go and move onto the next problem area.

On a side note this is sort of sad to think that is how it works, but this is a business and pleasing everyone is actually impossible. It bears repeating out loud once in a while, though.

It is far better of a plan than the other way around where everything is available to be modified, I.E. just like and IS mech, but without any hardpoints. Then the hate and vitriol go into effect as you start adding restrictions that were not there before. That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I can see the nerd rage go full bore if they did that!

That is how I think they're planning on doing this. Start deliberately bad, then open it up until it feels about right, then stop.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 14 December 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[Alexandrix]

I would say allowing a threshold of customization would be fair enough.for example,if the twolf prime comes with a 375xl then allow it to move 25 pts in either direction.up to a 400xl,or down to a 350 xl.same with armor points,allow a small increase or decrease.just not the full out customization is mechs have for armor/engines/etc.
Leave the upgrades if you want.whatever.
This whole situation is already so hosed its not even funny as far as the lore or whatever goes.IS mechs should have never been this customizable.