65 replies to this topic

[Shadey99]

FireSlade, on 16 December 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

I am assuming that the Kit Fox will be smaller than the Cicada so it may have an advantage in profile but the fact that you said it was "so so" and not a deathtrap gives me hope that it is possible to make it work.

Well do bare in mind that I was running ECM (CDA-3M base). Being invisible to sensors 'most' of the time does help, a Kit Fox pilot will have to remain more aware of their visibility. Though like any other good player I am sure some will make great use of it.

Size-wise I'd expect it to be very similar to a Jenner, though maybe a tad smaller... Though I'm not so sure it will knowing how PGI tends to oversize things (compare the Jenner and Locust for instance which are on opposite ends of the light spectrum).

Edited by Shadey99, 16 December 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[xengk]

Ghogiel, on 16 December 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

The problem is that Loki has 6.5tons of armor. Less than a jenner with max armor.

The kitfox is going at about 100kph with locust level armor.

If I remember correctly it was 8t of standard amour.
Most of the weight go toward having a big engine and fire power, makes it play like a large medium.
It is a core or bust mech, I find this to be ridiculously enjoyable to pilot from time to time.

[Shadey99]

xengk, on 16 December 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

If I remember correctly it was 8t of standard amour.
Most of the weight go toward having a big engine and fire power, makes it play like a large medium.
It is a core or bust mech, I find this to be ridiculously enjoyable to pilot from time to time.

I checked and the hellbringer/Loki does have 8 tons of armor stock... Or nearly exactly the max value of a Cicada (max standard armor on a cicada being 8.6 tons). That is pretty light for a heavy on par with a Catapult or Jager.

Edited by Shadey99, 16 December 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[FupDup]

FireSlade, on 16 December 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

The Jenners are about it. I know that the Kit Fox is at a disadvantage with speed and armor but until I see it played I am not ready to make a call about it. With proper cover and a smart pilot I can see many backsides being cored before the enemy can react. I remember similar stuff being said about the Locusts and that little mech surprised us. I do agree that it would be toast if people saw it though.

IMO, the Locust actually turned out worse than most expectations (including my own). As somebody who went through the painful process of grinding all three variants to master tier, I can say that it requires waaaaay too much work to accomplish even the most basic tasks, and even the tiniest hint of a mistake is punished with instant death.

Edited by FupDup, 16 December 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[FireSlade]

FupDup, on 16 December 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

IMO, the Locust actually turned out worse than most expectations (including my own). A somebody who went through the painful process of grinding all three variants to master tier, I can say that it requires waaaaay too much work to accomplish even the most basic tasks, and even the tiniest hint of a mistake is punished with instant death.

True I agree that it is a lot of work to pilot a Locust and it is very unforgiving of mistakes but those do not make it a bad mech. Some people love the challenge that piloting a Locust gives them. Besides we do not quite know the actual armor values that the Kit Fox will have or the speeds or anything else for that matter all we know is that it is on the way so I am disinclined to make a call yet on it.

[Karyudo ds]

Shadey99, on 16 December 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

I checked and the hellbringer/Loki does have 8 tons of armor stock... Or nearly exactly the max value of a Cicada (max standard armor on a cicada being 8.6 tons). That is pretty light for a heavy on par with a Catapult or Jager.

It might be an issue, but with slightly better weapons and little reason to not have more of them I'm thinking they would still end up with some bite. Just more offensive than defensive.

[FupDup]

FireSlade, on 16 December 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

True I agree that it is a lot of work to pilot a Locust and it is very unforgiving of mistakes but those do not make it a bad mech. Some people love the challenge that piloting a Locust gives them. Besides we do not quite know the actual armor values that the Kit Fox will have or the speeds or anything else for that matter all we know is that it is on the way so I am disinclined to make a call yet on it.

Actually, it does mean that. If item A requires 50 units of effort to accomplish task T, and item B only requires 25 units of effort to accomplish the identical task T, that does make item B better. Being difficult to use is not a tactical advantage in any battle.

Anyways, we do have a pretty close idea of what the Fox will look like in MWO because PGI seems to like stock configs. Unless they rewrite the stock variants for the Uller, it will look like this: http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/3028.pdf
Engine: 180 XL (97.2 kph stock, 106.9 kph with speed tweak)
Armor: CT 18, LT/RT 16, Arms 14, Legs 16, Rear torsos 8, Head 18 (double the values from the record sheet)
Pod space: 16 tons

Edited by FupDup, 16 December 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[Fang01]

I'd have avoided the clans entirely if not for that sexy *** Blackhawk Prime...I might consider doing the 30 a month upgrade plan to the Puma (so much joke potential) for the value factor @ $10 bucks a mech/3 months premium. Dunno. might depend on wtf a warhorn is

[FireSlade]

FupDup, on 16 December 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Actually, it does mean that. If item A requires 50 units of effort to accomplish task T, and item B only requires 25 units of effort to accomplish the identical task T, that does make item B better. Being difficult to use is not a tactical advantage in any battle.

Anyways, we do have a pretty close idea of what the Fox will look like in MWO because PGI seems to like stock configs. Unless they rewrite the stock variants for the Uller, it will look like this: http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/3028.pdf
Engine: 180 XL (97.2 kph stock, 106.9 kph with speed tweak)
Armor: CT 18, LT/RT 16, Arms 14, Legs 16, Rear torsos 8, Head 18 (double the values from the record sheet)
Pod space: 16 tons

Sometimes less effort does not equal fun. If that was the case then I would use my CTF-4X all the time because of how easy it is to kill someone with it. In truth I hate using it because all it does is follow the ballistics meta and is way too easy to use and makes me lazy. Instead I prefer my QKD-4G or my Jester because it requires that much more skill to use thus being more fun for me. I can go a step further and say my motorcycle is much more fun to drive than my truck even though it is much more dangerous and taxing to ride from point A to point B rain, shine, snow, cold, hot or night.

And we have no clue how the Kit Fox is going to be. We can speculate based on current rules that we have in which you are correct but Paul basically threw all that out the window with his post. So 1 ton of clan armor might be worth 32 points or it might be worth 40 or 24. Same goes for the engines; we know that clan engines are better than IS so they may make it go faster than 97.2 or slower. We already know that they are looking into making CLRMs heavier thus invalidating many designs so we can only speculate how the Kit Fox will perform.

[FupDup]

FireSlade, on 16 December 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Sometimes less effort does not equal fun. If that was the case then I would use my CTF-4X all the time because of how easy it is to kill someone with it. In truth I hate using it because all it does is follow the ballistics meta and is way too easy to use and makes me lazy. Instead I prefer my QKD-4G or my Jester because it requires that much more skill to use thus being more fun for me. I can go a step further and say my motorcycle is much more fun to drive than my truck even though it is much more dangerous and taxing to ride from point A to point B rain, shine, snow, cold, hot or night.

Of course you don't want something that is too easy, such as a Quad PPC Stalker back when PPCs were at only 8 heat, but at the same time having to use an excruciating levels of effort to accomplish the most menial tasks isn't usually very fun either. There is a fine line between being a mech being challenging and being an utter pain in the buttocks. If you go too far past the line, playing that mech becomes more of a chore than going on an adventure of blowing up giant stompy robots. But this is starting to get a bit off-topic here.

FireSlade, on 16 December 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

And we have no clue how the Kit Fox is going to be. We can speculate based on current rules that we have in which you are correct but Paul basically threw all that out the window with his post. So 1 ton of clan armor might be worth 32 points or it might be worth 40 or 24. Same goes for the engines; we know that clan engines are better than IS so they may make it go faster than 97.2 or slower. We already know that they are looking into making CLRMs heavier thus invalidating many designs so we can only speculate how the Kit Fox will perform.

The Command Chair said that the increase in CLRM weight is "possible" and that they are taking a longer time debating that change than other changes (in light of stock builds). Those other examples you listed seem a bit...drastic (especially the armor points, but I certainly wouldn't mind the extra armor points on certain Clan mechs...). The point is, until we're told otherwise, the record sheets are all we have to go with for now. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong and for the Kit Fox to be better than what its TT stats suggest (because it's the most beautiful looking light in MWO bar none, at least IMO)--it's just that I don't think it's very likely. Basically, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

[juxstapo]

God I'm glad to see most of you guys responding favorably to this thread. Differences of opinion, sure. But it seems like the b**ch and whine crowd were the loudest and proudest for the past few days.

PGI is fulfilling a need.. they may be doing it very very poorly on a lot of counts, but it's obvious scads of us needed a game in this franchise, and now I'm getting off topic myself, sorry.

[Dakkaface]

xengk, on 15 December 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

I have just only notice the waist on the Nova after Dualscar mention it.

vs


This design definitely make it more user friendly in MWO, but Im somewhat sadden at the lost of flavour.
Hopefully the torso twist would still be limited but allow maximum range of arm movement, this way it can be better at drive-by-shooting.
The arms looks almost as big as the center torso, so they can be flexible shield too.

Honestly, despite the fact that the Nova and the Cauldron Born are some of my all time favorite mechs, I have to agree with redesign decision. I started playing MW games with MW3 and the original design on these with the legs mounted to the torso on the same axis as the shoulder joints is practically unplayable in first person. MW3 allowed you to cheat a bit with the third person camera, unlocking the reticule from center screen and letting the arms flail about, aiming independently. MWO doesn't have that sort of option and 3P view in it is designed to be inferior to 1P.

I like the designs on all the Clan Mediums and Lights as they've been presented, even with the new hips on the Nova.

[GutterBoy5]

Am so looking forward to clan tech . PGI have really made them awesome looking , well done PGI. I wasn't upset @ pricing at all as I want me all regardless , but I can understand those who want timby only being annoyed , but hey PGI fixed it.

I hope so much that CW is pure tech IS shouldn't have clan tech avail @ some to clanners .but there lies the problem if I as IS merc buy clan package how does it fit in with CW is what I wanna know before fork out $$$.

If CW was a seperate tab/button to press & clan tech was locked to IS users , until they x amount of salvage per chassis was built up to unlock clan mechs then I'm fine gives more reason in CW to fight .

Assault/conquest/skirmish (casual) play could be another button/tab & clan tech avail to those who got.i be fine with that.
I just think this way CW is made with a real flavour & more challenging than we currently have.

But regardless of how done I love the challenge of taking down clan mechs & enjoying running them so looking forward to it.

GOLD CLANS well do you blame PGI obviously there ppl out there that will buy. & that kinda $$ helps support the game for those that play for FREE.

[NRP]

I'm pretty stoked for the Clan mechs too. I find the modular nature of an "omnimech" intriguing, since you can seemingly build your own ideal variant from components of the other variants. None of the variants will be useless (unlike IS mechs). I do have some concerns about how hot these damn things will run, given that they all seem to run multiple "ER" weapons.

Art wise, I absolutely love the "animalistic" look of the Clan mechs. I think each one looks badass.

Anyway, I went ahead and dropped $500 for a gold Dire Wolf (and Masakari pack). I'm an Assault guy at heart, and the lore description of the Dire Wolf sounds like it was the most badass mech in existence.

June can't get here soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

Edit:
I just realized today is my one year anniversary since I started playing MWO. I've had so much fun this past year learning the game and screwing around with mechs and builds. It really makes me excited for the future.

Edited by NRP, 24 December 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

You kidding? Nova was my Favorite in MW 2

[Pariah Devalis]

FireSlade, on 16 December 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Yes but few of them are packing a LBX5, ERLL, SPL, and a SSRM or a Gauss Rifle and 2ERMLs. The list goes on. Add to the fact with MWO customization you can pack one hell of a punch in a light that would rival a current medium and some of our heavies.



Well I will be damned I thought that the Hellbringer used FF and it looks to have the space for it so in lore it must have been a resource saving measure. If we cannot touch armor when they release the clan mechs then it will be a glass cannon.

It is a maddening design flaw. If the FASA people gave it FF and ES instead of standard and standard, it would still have pod space left over for, say, additional heat sinks which it sorely needs AND maxed out armor. Alternatively (or, in addition to) the A-Pods could be discarded as it already came with machine guns, making it lethal against infantry anyways. Two more tons freed from that. It is a mech design that I am fairly certain was intentionally flawed. Could you imagine a mech with twin C-ERPPC, 3xERMLas, and an SSRM6, moving 86 kph, sporting ECM and BAP AND AMS? And being near fully armored with somewhat decent heat efficiency? Forget the Timber Wolf, people would be running for the hills from the Hellbringer. D:

[Whatzituyah]

Now it looks more like a super nova

[Pariah Devalis]

I have no problem with that. Supernova is what you get when a Nova and a King Crab make sweet, sweet love.

[Whatzituyah]

Pariah Devalis, on 24 December 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

I have no problem with that. Supernova is what you get when a Nova and a King Crab make sweet, sweet love.

I am not sure if this is very PG rated...

[xengk]

GutterBoy5, on 24 December 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

I hope so much that CW is pure tech IS shouldn't have clan tech avail @ some to clanners .but there lies the problem if I as IS merc buy clan package how does it fit in with CW is what I wanna know before fork out $$$.

If CW was a seperate tab/button to press & clan tech was locked to IS users , until they x amount of salvage per chassis was built up to unlock clan mechs then I'm fine gives more reason in CW to fight .

Assault/conquest/skirmish (casual) play could be another button/tab & clan tech avail to those who got.i be fine with that.
I just think this way CW is made with a real flavour & more challenging than we currently have.

But regardless of how done I love the challenge of taking down clan mechs & enjoying running them so looking forward to it.

I was thinking, what if the reason we get Clan before CW is that Clan mech will have a separate queue for Clan(Warden) vs Clan(Crusader). Once that is sorted out, the Clan Invasion finally begins.

I hope that Clan weapon can only be installed on Clan chassis, until IS Omni comes along.