79 replies to this topic

[RexMaximus]

I had to log in just to say this. I have spent 300 dollars too much on this game. I still love playing it but holy ****. Its like an act of God to get a new map, and new game modes? forget it. Yet every week they have something new for sale. All this stuff that was planned is still not here, but they keep wanting more money. I really feel for them as they must be in a tight spot to be doing this. But they are losing more players at least financially then gaining them. The game playes much better then it was a few months ago, but nothing else has changed in 6 month's other then a few mechs, and maby one map. I really want this game to succeed, but I cannot in good faith buy anything else for it, and I know quite a few other players feel this way. That is a bad place to be for a game based on micro transactions. I am one of those lucky people that has money to throw at games we love. Games like MechWarrior, and Wing Commander were fond memories as a kid, and people like me will toss a ******** amount to try to get that back. I have thrown almost 2k at SC because of the way they are doing business. I just wish they would learn something from CIG other then people may spend lots of money for fake things in a video game.

Edited by RexMaximus, 17 December 2013 - 02:52 AM.

[Axeman1]

Stopped reading after "biusiness's"

Edited by Axeman1, 17 December 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Zerberoff]

Enzane, on 16 December 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

I'm pissed by this:

A) Phoenix was 4 mechs (+8 Variants) for $80. - $6.66 per mech.
Saber Package was 2 mechs (+4 Variants) for $30 - $5.00 Per mech
Founders was 4 mechs for $120 - $30 per mech
Clan is now 8 Mechs (+16 Variants) for $240 - $10.00 per mech.
This is an insult at how much this costs.

Founders = 4 Mechs + 20.000 MC

you also missed to count in the extra Mechbays and 90 Days Premiumtime you got with all expect the Saberpack.

oh and one last thing...

Phoenix was 4 mechs (+8 Variants) for $80. - $6.66 per mech. for free
Saber Package was 2 mechs (+4 Variants) for $30 - $5.00 Per mech soon all of them for free
Founders was 4 mechs for $120 - $30 per mech for free
Clan is now 8 Mechs (+16 Variants) for $240 - $10.00 per mech. will be for free

This is an insult at how much this costs.

Edited by Zerberoff, 17 December 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[Belorion]

Idzy, on 16 December 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Holy WTF!!! $500 mechs am I ever glad I never dropped a dime on this game after getting my founders refund. Maybe in 20 years someone will make a decent mechwarrior game.

Your statement doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What difference would your founders package of had in regards to the 500 dollar mechs?

I have a founders package, and the 500 dollar mechs don't effect me at all.

[Trauglodyte]

Dracol, on 16 December 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

The 80/20 ratio is found throughout business theory.

80% of a biusiness's revenue comes from 20% of their clientel.
80% of retail sales happen the 20% of the year right before Xmas.

So, when it comes to the Clan pre-sale....

The majority of the money gained in presales will only be from 1/5th of the player base
The majority of discretionary spending happens before Christmas, and there would be no other time for PGI to sell the clan pre-package except now.

Those of you waiting for features, protesting balance, or just playing the game for free are not the targets of the clan prepackage sale.

No, the Clan pre-package was released for those who are patient, enjoy playing the game, and have a desire to spend money on it. These people, the 20%, will receive the majority (80%) of PGI's attention.... since they will be providing 80% of the sales.

Business logic falls on deaf mega-nerd ears. Not that it is a bad thing. Its just that these people want what they want, feel entitled to what they want, and don't have the patience or understanding for what isn't what they want. And that is completely ok because its all based on personal wants and those wants don't necessarily match that of the collective.

[AC]

Zerberoff, on 17 December 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Founders = 4 Mechs + 20.000 MC

you also missed to count in the extra Mechbays and 90 Days Premiumtime you got with all expect the Saberpack.

oh and one last thing...

Phoenix was 4 mechs (+8 Variants) for $80. - $6.66 per mech. for free
Saber Package was 2 mechs (+4 Variants) for $30 - $5.00 Per mech soon all of them for free
Founders was 4 mechs for $120 - $30 per mech for free
Clan is now 8 Mechs (+16 Variants) for $240 - $10.00 per mech. will be for free

This is an insult at how much this costs.

Stop the stupidity.... You can't buy a single founders mech. You can buy the generic version with in game currency after grinding for a week. That is not the same thing.

[Dracol]

Axeman1, on 17 December 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

Stopped reading after "biusiness's"

Thank you for catching my misspelling. Dang tablet doesn't do well spell checking and I missed it on my read through before posting. Now that I have that mistake corrected, please feel free to continue reading to my next inevitable spelling error. When we've repeated this process until the whole post is spelled correctly, I would be really interested to learn your thoughts on the subject matter.

[Zygwen]

Hmm, guess I'm in somewhere in that top 20%. I'll probably get a Masakari package too. Probably won't go for a Gold mech though.

[Dracol]

FergieJ, on 16 December 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

.... and on top of that. if I was to see a gold plated mech on my team, im going to quit the match, and so with the rest of our lance

and he can play in his $500 mech in an 9 v 12 or 8 v 12, and I urge anyone else to do the same that feels wronged by this gold plated clan mech "sale"

An interesting reaction. So, let me make sure I have this clear....

The game you play, one which you obviously have enjoyed, enough even to have spent $100 on... which is $80 more then what you usually spend on a F2P game...You feel insulted that the company dare's release the option for people to pre-purchase new content (which will be free at one point)...

Now, the content the Dev's have been working on has not been released... but, they don't sell UI 2.0 or CW, they sell mechs. The mechs are used within the context of UI and CW, but like dropping in assault matches, we don't pay to use those aspects of the game. So, all the content we actually pay for we have received...

The company has dared to pre-sell content. Considering the fact clan mechs are to be more powerful then an Inner Sphere mech of equal tonnage, they have priced have accordingly. They have also gone beyond just 4 chassis in terms of packages offered.

So, you feel insulted they have provided an option for people to pre-purchase mechs that cost more per mech at a price that reflects this? And the fact they are offering mechs with purely cosmetic differences to those who want to purchase an unique (that is unique solely by its price) mech fills you with such bile you would rather disconnect from the game you enjoy instead of share the battlefield?

......You've made me realize something. It sucks that Corvettes are sold at the price they are. They really should be sold at the same price as my wife's Camery. It sucks so much, I'll turn off my car and step away from my vehicle if a Corvette pulls next to me at a stop light. That'll show Chevy!

[Raxxis Jyn]

Here's what kills me on this sale and what I do not understand about their marketing structure here:

The sale is not supportive of their fan base. I certainly do understand that many people will just cough of up the money and get the whole package. Some individuals such as myself are somewhat lucky in this circumstance because the only two mechs I've been wanting from clan tech are both Summoner and the Daishi. A bonus is that both the Kit Fox as well as the Nova are both superb mechs as well. But, I know plenty of individuals that really just want the Timber Wolf and most will not pay the $210.00 for just that on that one mech. Or one who only wants the Masakari can spend a ridiculous $240.00 now get 21 other mechs they may or may not appreciate and barely use, get some extra perks and wait six months for it. But sure they can wait, what? Another year almost for that one mech, but then they do not get the package with the 30% c-bill bonus or any of the perks. Something is very wrong here.

Now I don't necessarily believe that huge perks should be granted for one mech package but why not treat it like buying a hero mech that gets the c-bill bonus?

Another aspect of future sales would be to offer custom packages.

The Clan Package has 2 assaults, 2 heavies, 2 mediums and 2 lights. Why not offer the ability to buy just the assaults and heavies? Or maybe just be able to buy the lights or mediums?

Why not allow us to choose a one or two or three mech purchase and exponentially increase or decrease the cost of the package depending on our choices?

Perhaps they could implement this approach with an incremental increase in cost as the sale matures!

I'm not a sales expert but, I know very well that this structure would win over the respect and loyalty of their fan base several times over. This current sales structure feels "smarmy" and a little rotten. There is no choice for one or two mechs. Except at the bottom tier. We have to go all in to the nearest pick or wait several months and then only to not get the prime variant with the 30% c-bill bonus, as previously stated...

PGI/IGP, I love this game and I'm willing to put in more for it but I want more options in how I allocate my money along with far more transparency in where it will be going. I understand that some of your direction in the development was mentioned in a recent letter, and that helps to smooth over some pf the current angst. I for one appreciated at least some explanation. I for one also appreciate the good times this game has brought me but, I may not be long for this game as there are other companies with more flexible buy-in options that don't make me feel like I've been taken advantage of. You would do well to follow suit.

And that's my $0.10

Cheers!

[Maple Nachiman]

Why is it that in WoW, $50 + $10 per month and the occasional $50 expansion got you a million times more content than we have here? Hell WoW in beta had a million times more content.

wtf.

[anonymous161]

Those of you who have spent hundreds of dollars on this...**** already you are dumb enough to blindly throw money at them I have no sympathy for you. /you enable them to farther run this series too the ground.

Tell you what pgi loan me 500 bucks to buy the clans, and I will pay 10% of that back when cw is actually playable...

DEAL? Does that sound like a fair deal or what!?

If they hire me I will require everyone to pay one dollar a match to play. I will be rich? Perhaps a good idea if enough fools played.

Edited by Darth Bane001, 18 December 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Zerberoff]

AC, on 17 December 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

You can't buy a single founders mech. You can buy the generic version...
That is not the same thing.

Ok, where is the difference beside the Camo and the 25% C-Bill boost?

[Lyoto Machida]

Darth Bane001, on 18 December 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Those of you who have spent hundreds of dollars on this...**** already you are dumb enough to blindly throw money at them I have no sympathy for you. /you enable them to farther run this series too the ground.

Tell you what pgi loan me 500 bucks to buy the clans, and I will pay 10% of that back when cw is actually playable...

DEAL? Does that sound like a fair deal or what!?

If they hire me I will require everyone to pay one dollar a match to play. I will be rich? Perhaps a good idea if enough fools played.

[Diego Angelus]

Dracol, on 17 December 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

An interesting reaction. So, let me make sure I have this clear....

The game you play, one which you obviously have enjoyed, enough even to have spent $100 on... which is $80 more then what you usually spend on a F2P game...You feel insulted that the company dare's release the option for people to pre-purchase new content (which will be free at one point)...

Now, the content the Dev's have been working on has not been released... but, they don't sell UI 2.0 or CW, they sell mechs. The mechs are used within the context of UI and CW, but like dropping in assault matches, we don't pay to use those aspects of the game. So, all the content we actually pay for we have received...

The company has dared to pre-sell content. Considering the fact clan mechs are to be more powerful then an Inner Sphere mech of equal tonnage, they have priced have accordingly. They have also gone beyond just 4 chassis in terms of packages offered.

So, you feel insulted they have provided an option for people to pre-purchase mechs that cost more per mech at a price that reflects this? And the fact they are offering mechs with purely cosmetic differences to those who want to purchase an unique (that is unique solely by its price) mech fills you with such bile you would rather disconnect from the game you enjoy instead of share the battlefield?

......You've made me realize something. It sucks that Corvettes are sold at the price they are. They really should be sold at the same price as my wife's Camery. It sucks so much, I'll turn off my car and step away from my vehicle if a Corvette pulls next to me at a stop light. That'll show Chevy!

You compare cars to a virtual mechs facepalm. He was saying about gold mechs well I would do same expect I would core it first then leave. they took bad experience from last sale and buffed it 10 times...

[Quaamik]

I don’t see a problem with them rolling out the Clan pre-order now, before Christmas. It makes sense from a marketing standpoint.

I don’t have a big problem with the pricing structure for the Clan pr-order. I don’t “like” it from a personal level, but a thing is worth what someone is willing to pay.

I don’t see a problem with them having some delay on when you can buy the mechs from the Phoenix / Saber package for MC, or for C-bills, to allow those who pre-ordered the chance to enjoy exclusive content.

I don’t see a problem with them offering custom skins, of whatever color, for whatever price as a “loyalty” package (much like the various titles are).

I don’t see a problem offering a gold colored mech (seems dumb to run around in it, but hey).

I don’t see a problem with offering an exclusive module as a “loyalty” bonus for someone who pays a high dollar for support (assuming it doesn’t unbalance the game).

I don’t see a huge issue with them waiting on launching community warfare until they can figure out a way to make money off of it, at least enough to break even for managing it.

I don’t see a big issue with them offering a pre-order of vaporware that will be delivered in 6 months, the details of which aren’t publicly rolled out.

I don’t have a big problem with them concentrating on things they can easily sell, rather than UI2.0, or VOIP, or Maps, or Game Play Modes, or Turrets.


I think is it a very bad business decision when all of these happen at once.

[LastPaladin]

Daggett, on 16 December 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

I don't get it why so many guys have a problem with those gold mechs.
It is not targeted at you or me who have a limited budget for games.
It's targeted at whales who want that little extra bling-bling and are willing to pay for it.

Well, a couple reason. First, there is the issue of the unknown "special modules" they are selling with the mechs, and we have no idea how they will impact gameplay for everyone on the field who doesn't pay the $500. Second, charging that amount is just unseemly and really looks like the kind of final, desperate cash grab that happens when a company knows they'll have to fold up shop shortly. I'm not going to buy a $500 mech myself, but I can certainly be disgusted that PGI seems to be trying to fleece unsuspecting customers like that, if the situation is really what it appears to be.

[Daggett]

LastPaladin, on 19 December 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Well, a couple reason. First, there is the issue of the unknown "special modules" they are selling with the mechs, and we have no idea how they will impact gameplay for everyone on the field who doesn't pay the $500. Second, charging that amount is just unseemly and really looks like the kind of final, desperate cash grab that happens when a company knows they'll have to fold up shop shortly. I'm not going to buy a $500 mech myself, but I can certainly be disgusted that PGI seems to be trying to fleece unsuspecting customers like that, if the situation is really what it appears to be.

As i already stated it is highly unlikely that any sane developer will design those modules in a way that they would give a significant in-game advantage. PGI has already proven that they try to keep P2W out of the game. And that they react on community feedback when an initial design contained those elements like the first consumables-iteration.
Their fault was to not state that those modules won't be P2W and instead leave it totally open for speculation.

Regarding your second argument:
When the price tag defines if a game is dying or not then i assume that Star Citizen is already dead because they sell packs for 10.000$? Golden Mechs look like a bargain compared to this...
And any kickstarter project with pledges above 100$ is dead right from the start?

I don't think so. There are many guys out there who have the funds and the will to invest in and support a game by even the highest amounts. And if i would develop a game by myself i would try to encourage those guys too.
Okay i probably would not do so by offering golden thingies, but when my data tells me that there are people that buy virtual stuff for 500$ or more then i would give 'em something for sure to get as much resources for my game as possible..

So personally i don't feel offended by expensive bling-bling. My concerns rather go into the direction if the content is enough to justify 500 bucks. For that amount of money i would like an additional MWO t-shirt or a physical mech miniature much more than just some golden paint...

To make it short: Charging a high price for exclusive whale-content is becoming a common practice and says nothing about the project's success. And no one whines about 500$ kickstarter pledges. So why do we about golden mechs which are basically the same concept?

[LastPaladin]

Daggett, on 19 December 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

As i already stated it is highly unlikely that any sane developer will design those modules in a way that they would give a significant in-game advantage. PGI has already proven that they try to keep P2W out of the game. And that they react on community feedback when an initial design contained those elements like the first consumables-iteration.
Their fault was to not state that those modules won't be P2W and instead leave it totally open for speculation.

Yes, hopefully they won't be p2w modules, but unless PGI, you know, actually communicates what is so special about them, people are going to naturally make their own conclusions.

Daggett, on 19 December 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Regarding your second argument:
When the price tag defines if a game is dying or not then i assume that Star Citizen is already dead because they sell packs for 10.000$? Golden Mechs look like a bargain compared to this...
And any kickstarter project with pledges above 100$ is dead right from the start?

No, you are missing the point. It is not only the pricetag that makes people see this as a sign of a possible last chance cash grab. It's the pricetag AND all the other signs and omens that seem to point that way, taken together. If the game was doing well, with a thriving player base, good industry buzz, keeping its production schedule, etc, then nobody would blink at high priced optional content. That's not the case with this game at the moment.

[Daggett]

Maple Nachiman, on 18 December 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Why is it that in WoW, $50 + $10 per month and the occasional $50 expansion got you a million times more content than we have here? Hell WoW in beta had a million times more content.

wtf.

Just two words: Manpower and Budget.

MWO had only a few millions budget where you can pay a 40-head team for only a few years if you don't want to exploit them.
And the additional staff like HR, QA, Marketing, (Community) Management, Technicians and the like is not even counted in. This can easily mean another 30+ people to feed.

WOW had 40+ millions initial budget (approx. 10 times as much than PGI) and Blizzard was able to increase it without problems when they've seen that the game is a success.

And Star Wars: The old Republic had an initial Budget of more than 100(!) Millions.

That is a whole different dimension and of cause WOW had much more content than MWO.
They had 37 Game Designers alone! That's an entire MWO devteam just in the GD-Department.

And with this manpower it's natural that you can produce way more content for each of the 8 million subscribers so they get more for their bucks than we do.

So i think it's unfair to judge a much smaller title with the biggest fishes in the industry.