79 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

A few points to consider:

( A ) All Clan mechs come standard with XL Engines

( B ) All Clan mechs come standard with Endo Steel structure

( C ) All Clan mechs come standard with FerroFibrous Armor

( D ) All Clan mechs come standard with Clan double heat sinks

( E ) All Clan mechs come standard as Omnimechs (changeable hardpoints)

( F ) A Timber Wolf Prime costs ~25,000,000 cbills, while the Atlas D-DC costs ~10,000,000 cbills (2.5x more expensive)

( G ) Boars Head Atlas Hero mech with fewer standard features sells for 7500 MC at normal price, This leads me to believe that a Timber Wolf Prime might cost something like 15,000 MC at normal rates.

Does it look like such a terrible deal now? Considering you'll have to pay to upgrade nothing after you get them...I think not.

Edited by Gyrok, 19 December 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Sephlock]

I don't know about everyone else, but as nice as all that other stuff would be, I would be satisfied for quite some time if I had three things:

1: Knockdown back in the game, and not in a hideously gimped form. Nerfed is fine, gimped is not. Some sort of collision system (beyond just knockdown/no knockdown) would be a nice bonus but is not a requirement

2: Exact details on what a war horn is.

3: Exact details on what the unique module for the gold mechs is (or what they are, if there are multiple different ones).

Edited by Sephlock, 19 December 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Gyrok, on 19 December 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Does it look like such a terrible deal now? Considering you'll have to pay to upgrade nothing after you get them...I think not.

Your facts aren't quite right for all Clan 'Mechs, but they are mostly.

#1. According to current plans, Clan 'Mechs won't be able to change engines, armor points, internal structure, or the critical slot arrangement of any of those things -- see this post.

#2. Nova is a 50-ton medium that will be stuck with standard armor, standard internal structure, and it will only go 81 kph.

#3. Dire Wolf doesn't have endo steel internal structure or ferro-fibrous armor (which it shouldn't have, as a 100-ton assault), but it is stuck with a 300 XL engine. That's 48.5 kph.

#4. Kit Fox (a 30-ton light) and Adder (a 35-ton light) only go 97.2 kph.

#5. Summoner (a 70-ton heavy) and Warhawk (an 85-ton assault) will have standard internal structure and Ferro-Fibrous armor.

You won't be able to do any upgrades or downgrades on these 'Mechs, even if you actually wanted to.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 20 December 2013 - 12:56 AM.

[Devari]

The issue here isn't the price of the packages per se. It's that they have given us next to NOTHING to show for the founder's and phoenix packages.

Now, I'm sure some ***** is going to say "well you got your mechs and premium time, what more do you want?"
I want a working game.

THAT is what I paid for when I bought the founder's pack over a year ago. And when I got the phoenix package. I was supporting a game with certain features, based on the claims of the developers. I was NOT buying a few digital robots to fight other digital robots in 10 minute, repetitive matches without any other content. I was supposed to be buying content for a complete game that would be finished in 6 months to a year.

I have not gotten that game yet. This is over 1 year later, and I am being told it will be ANOTHER year until they release the game I already paid for.

It amazes me that there are still people who do not understand that this is why people are unhappy about the clan packages. Because we are being sold something that we have ALREADY paid for, and have not yet received. It is NOT about whether you can get away with selling people a 500 dollar gold digital robot. It is whether you can do this after taking several hundred dollars from someone for a GAME that you have not yet delivered, and THEN ask them for more money.

[NextGame]

I love the OP's assertion that clan pack purchasers will get listened to, considering that founders and phoenix did not.

[Devari]

It's not an issue of being "listened to". It's an issue of being sold something that we have ALREADY paid for and have not received yet. If my investment as a founder and phoenix package purchaser is now "obsolete" then what would I expect to get from purchasing the clan pack? Most likely nothing. I have not yet gotten a working game, and my investment in the first two packages in now obsolete because of upcoming clan tech?

They sold us the game with founder's packs, and did not deliver. Then they sold it to us again with phoenix packages, and did not deliver. I'm supposed to believe that I'm actually buying something with a third expensive package?

As I mentioned in another thread, at $230 I have ALREADY paid FOUR TIMES what a retail game like Battlefield 4 costs. And do not yet have a working game to enjoy.

Sorry, but we are being scammed here. The game will most likely fold before CW is even released. You will NOT get your money back because the company will have folded and the money will be gone. You will have purchased a failed game that effectively will not have made it out of beta (which is what this still is).

[Grimwit]

Daggett, on 16 December 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

I don't get it why so many guys have a problem with those gold mechs.
It is not targeted at you or me who have a limited budget for games.
It's targeted at whales who want that little extra bling-bling and are willing to pay for it.

Personally i would not want to drive a golden mech and show my wealth, but if those guys are pumping in money to keep that game going then i'm the last one to blame them for that.

So really where is the problem? No one forces us to have a golden mech. And i also don't get why people are whining about unknown special modules. Who says that they must have a gameplay-effect? Maybe it's a normal airstrike module which plays wagner's "ride of the walkyries" when activated?

You can be pretty sure that PGI is not that dumb to give the whales an actually powerful unique module.
That's why the pre-order phoenix mechs have no special configuration and the clan prime mechs will also not have anything which makes them better than their free counterparts.

So i ask again: Who really cares about expensive golden mechs? They are meant to be a unique and rare sight on the battlefield and if one's ego needs one of these badly then he will pay the price.
None of us is blaming Rolex for selling status symbol watches which are not better than non-golden ones. We simply don't buy 'em. So why starting to whine about golden mechs no one really needs? ;-)

And regarding the preorder packages: It sure is a steep price, but don't forget you are essentially paying for the right to play them first. Nothing else. All those bonuses are secondary. Beside being one of the first guys to play the mechs the packages have no advantage compared to the free variants. So if the price is too high then you just need to be patient and you have no problems.

Actually there are guys here in germany who pay a whopping 900+ dollars to get a PS4 which they can have for less than 700 bucks in a few months.
Or if you want to play a brand new game like GTA5 right on release day then you pay much more than a few month later.
The same rules apply here: If you want to be the first, you pay lots of extra money.

So why whining? Just wait to get everything much cheaper (in our case: for free) if you don't like the price.
Only the impatient are getting 'milked' ;-)

+1
This says it all, well said. Props.

[Daggett]

Devari, on 21 December 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

It's not an issue of being "listened to". It's an issue of being sold something that we have ALREADY paid for and have not received yet.
.
.
.
They sold us the game with founder's packs, and did not deliver. Then they sold it to us again with phoenix packages, and did not deliver. I'm supposed to believe that I'm actually buying something with a third expensive package?

It seems that you have misunderstood the packages. Those are preorder packs which grants you the right to be the first one to try out the new mechs while supporting the game. And so far they delivered exactly this.

Devari, on 21 December 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

If my investment as a founder and phoenix package purchaser is now "obsolete" then what would I expect to get from purchasing the clan pack? Most likely nothing. I have not yet gotten a working game, and my investment in the first two packages in now obsolete because of upcoming clan tech?

Strange... My game works perfectly fine. Even the crashes and HUD-problems are gone. I can remember quite well that last year large parts of the community cried "Screw new features, fix the game!" And they did exactly this, they fixed lots of technical issues. Now some of the same guys are whining about delayed features.

And can you enlighten us why Clan-Tech should make IS-Tech obsolete?
It is totally obvious that PGI's current course is to nerf them so hard that they fit IS-power level. So you can be totally sure that IS-tech will not get obsolete. The thing which should rather be discussed is if nerfing is the most elegant route to solve the clan power issues.

Devari, on 21 December 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

As I mentioned in another thread, at $230 I have ALREADY paid FOUR TIMES what a retail game like Battlefield 4 costs.

Seriously no one forced you to spend so much money. You could have had almost equal fun by spending only 50$ like i did.
You wanted to try out the new mechs first (and to get some unique stuff) and were willing to pay for that. It's totally unfair to attach your feature wishes to those purchases and demand things which never have been the content of those packs.

If you really want to compare your MWO spendings to retail PC games than at least do it with the special collector's editions, because basically you spend $230 for the MWO equivalent of a collectors edition. The standard Edition of MWO is the FREE one which is unbeatable in terms of 'bang-for-the-buck' compared to retail games like Battlefield 4.

And in this comparison retail collector's editions are often equally or more expensive.

Examples? Here:
- Fallout3 Exclusive Survival Edition: 200$
- Dead Space Ultra Limited Edition: 1000$ new, 350$ used
- The Last of us Post-Pandemic Edition: 475$
- Assassins Creed Master Assassin Edition: 400$
- Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 Prestige Edition: 180-220$

and the list goes on and on.

And like the examples above no one forces you to spend hundreds of dollars for early access and collector's stuff.

Edited by Daggett, 24 December 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[Kaldar Tatrient]

Daggett, on 16 December 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

I don't get it why so many guys have a problem with those gold mechs.
It is not targeted at you or me who have a limited budget for games.
It's targeted at whales who want that little extra bling-bling and are willing to pay for it.

Personally i would not want to drive a golden mech and show my wealth, but if those guys are pumping in money to keep that game going then i'm the last one to blame them for that.

So really where is the problem? No one forces us to have a golden mech. And i also don't get why people are whining about unknown special modules. Who says that they must have a gameplay-effect? Maybe it's a normal airstrike module which plays wagner's "ride of the walkyries" when activated?

You can be pretty sure that PGI is not that dumb to give the whales an actually powerful unique module.
That's why the pre-order phoenix mechs have no special configuration and the clan prime mechs will also not have anything which makes them better than their free counterparts.

So i ask again: Who really cares about expensive golden mechs? They are meant to be a unique and rare sight on the battlefield and if one's ego needs one of these badly then he will pay the price.
None of us is blaming Rolex for selling status symbol watches which are not better than non-golden ones. We simply don't buy 'em. So why starting to whine about golden mechs no one really needs? ;-)

And regarding the preorder packages: It sure is a steep price, but don't forget you are essentially paying for the right to play them first. Nothing else. All those bonuses are secondary. Beside being one of the first guys to play the mechs the packages have no advantage compared to the free variants. So if the price is too high then you just need to be patient and you have no problems.

Actually there are guys here in germany who pay a whopping 900+ dollars to get a PS4 which they can have for less than 700 bucks in a few months.
Or if you want to play a brand new game like GTA5 right on release day then you pay much more than a few month later.
The same rules apply here: If you want to be the first, you pay lots of extra money.

So why whining? Just wait to get everything much cheaper (in our case: for free) if you don't like the price.
Only the impatient are getting 'milked' ;-)

Thank you! Finally someone who gets it and isn't just complaining.

[Odins Fist]

Gyrok, on 19 December 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

A few points to consider:

( A ) All Clan mechs come standard with XL Engines

( B ) All Clan mechs come standard with Endo Steel structure

( C ) All Clan mechs come standard with FerroFibrous Armor

( D ) All Clan mechs come standard with Clan double heat sinks

( E ) All Clan mechs come standard as Omnimechs (changeable hardpoints)

( F ) A Timber Wolf Prime costs ~25,000,000 cbills, while the Atlas D-DC costs ~10,000,000 cbills (2.5x more expensive)

( G ) Boars Head Atlas Hero mech with fewer standard features sells for 7500 MC at normal price, This leads me to believe that a Timber Wolf Prime might cost something like 15,000 MC at normal rates.

Does it look like such a terrible deal now? Considering you'll have to pay to upgrade nothing after you get them...I think not.

Something else to consider... Even though they (Clan mechs) COME with all of that XLs this and ENDO that, I have enough C-Bills to customize everything I want, any way I want..

I do not care that you cannot change engines and things of Clan mechs, that is more of a detriment then it is a plus any way you look at it.. Not being able to change certain things the way you can with the current IS mechs is not what I call a bonus in terms of value added, not by a long shot.. Try again

It was all about the money, and you cannot sit there and defend against that fact. MWO is all about the money, so don't be surprised when they get as much as they can as fast as they can, also don't be surprised when the player base calls them out for it, especially when it is quite obvious they were going for the gouge on the Timberwolf package.

Here's what would fix all of it.. All mechs $10.00 to $12.00 a piece, with a Mech bay included, and no premiun time.
I cannot tell you how many people would spend $10.00 here, and $10.00 there, and NOT realize they have spent over $100.00 in a couple months, as opposed to spending NOTHING, and complaining about MWO and it's pricing policy.

Edited by Odins Fist, 24 December 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[Devari]

Daggett, I have not "misunderstood" the packages. They were supposed to be a way of supporting a game with features that were clearly advertised two years ago. Using those mechs in a 12 v 12 sandbox for a year is NOT what they were advertising. I do NOT get to use them "early" in CW, which is the entire point of the game.

If you can't understand that simple concept that a sandbox fps is NOT the same as an MMO, and that they have NOT been making any progress on producing a MMO, then you are clearly not capable of understanding why founders and phoenix purchasers are angry right now.

[Daggett]

Devari, on 24 December 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Daggett, I have not "misunderstood" the packages. They were supposed to be a way of supporting a game with features that were clearly advertised two years ago. Using those mechs in a 12 v 12 sandbox for a year is NOT what they were advertising. I do NOT get to use them "early" in CW, which is the entire point of the game.

If you can't understand that simple concept that a sandbox fps is NOT the same as an MMO, and that they have NOT been making any progress on producing a MMO, then you are clearly not capable of understanding why founders and phoenix purchasers are angry right now.

I see this a bit differently.
Of cause you are also supporting the game by buying those packs. But the speed of development never was a promise and it is contra-productive to demand fast development on the back of the argument that you support the game regularly.

There is a cause why they are postponing the features over and over, but pressuring them is very unlikely to remove that cause. The worst that can happen is that they resign and throw something half-baked together. Personally i don't want that. I want them to be able to take their time and deliver something good even if it takes several months more.

You guys are also angry because you don't SEE the progress and PGI is unable to communicate this in a transparent way. But i'm pretty sure that they worked a lot on stuff to enable those features. CW for example is a quite complex thing and i would not be surprised if at least 50% of the work is invisible to players, like refactoring code, create the backend and establishing all other needed structures which CW needs.

With this background it is also totally believable that they need to get UI 2.0 out first. It would not make any sense to incorporate CW in the current UI and then do the same work again for UI 2.0. So there can't be CW without a revamped UI.

What i blame PGi for is their bad information policy, sales timing and community management. But for me this is currently more a sign of an inexperienced team rather than a fraud. There are way easier ways to milk players than creating a complex niche game with only a limited target audience.

I don't know exactly why they have so big problems getting their stuff done, but telling everyone to not spend any more money which some guys here do is VERY contra-productive. It's okay if i decide for myself to not spend any more money unless i see something. But if no one would spend any more from now on, the haters have succeeded in creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So why it is so hard for many guys here to simply stay constructive and not accusing PGI of being all sort of things when there are so many possibilities why they are slow? With being inexperienced in creating and managing an MMO the most likely one (at least for me). Its totally okay to say what's wrong and i do it myself too. But there is a difference in constructive criticism and hateful ranting because one does not get his toys. And it is sad to see so many posts on the latter side...

[RG Notch]

Niko Snow, on 16 December 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Though keep in mind that, just like with our previous PreOrders, these Mechs are still offered at a significantly reduced price compared to normal MC unlock prices and come with a number of other value-added bonuses.

Sales and Pre-orders should not be regarded as the normative price and the value on such offers may vary with each different iteration.

Yes they will tend to go up until people stop buying, or freak out on the forum and make PGI change their packaging. The goal of PGI is to push prices up each package and hope the fungible billing units, I mean customers keep paying. Also each package will contain a promise of CW coming SOON!

[Ahja]

Frankly I was in that 20% and now one of the scrubs in the lower 80%. The price is an issue for me however it is only one of many since start. I suppose they can be all lumped into one overall problem and that is the mismanagement and reinterpretation of a very beloved franchise. The announcement to bring in the Clan at this point in development is ridiculous. I have no hope that these reinvented Clan Mechs will be anything but shinny. What they had better be doing is making up a great excuse to make to all of the Clan fans that are on board with this idea. Because once they find out they just paid more for the best and got hosed they will not be happy.

[Dracol]

Ahja, on 25 December 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

.... Because once they find out they just paid more for the best and got hosed they will not be happy.

I hope all clan fans read the info about the packages before they drop any money. In my experience in BT back in the 90's and the mechwarrior games over the years, the main reason people liked playing as clanners was the advantage they had over IS tech. Now that Clan is being balanced with IS (instead of IS being made obsolete in order to sell more books), that instant draw to play as clanners is removed.

Which brings me to my second point..... If PGI really wanted to do a cash grab, they could have easily made clan tech superior, there by forcing anyone interested in having a chance to pay. OR they could have left out how they are bringing Clan tech in line with IS tech.....

But, they didn't. Instead, they're attempting to make Clan mechs even with IS and being upfront with the player base how they are going to do this.

Oh, and to those who are yelling "They're only doing it for the money!".... I ask of you, do you work for free?

Running a business is all about the money... ALWAYS. No matter the industry, if the leaders of a company don't work at increasing revenue and expanding income sources, they won't be a leader for long.

[RG Notch]

Dracol, on 09 January 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

I hope all clan fans read the info about the packages before they drop any money. In my experience in BT back in the 90's and the mechwarrior games over the years, the main reason people liked playing as clanners was the advantage they had over IS tech. Now that Clan is being balanced with IS (instead of IS being made obsolete in order to sell more books), that instant draw to play as clanners is removed.

Which brings me to my second point..... If PGI really wanted to do a cash grab, they could have easily made clan tech superior, there by forcing anyone interested in having a chance to pay. OR they could have left out how they are bringing Clan tech in line with IS tech.....

But, they didn't. Instead, they're attempting to make Clan mechs even with IS and being upfront with the player base how they are going to do this.

Oh, and to those who are yelling "They're only doing it for the money!".... I ask of you, do you work for free?

Running a business is all about the money... ALWAYS. No matter the industry, if the leaders of a company don't work at increasing revenue and expanding income sources, they won't be a leader for long.

You do realize that it is possible to earn money over the long term if you make a game with engaging content that keeps players coming back and spending or you can try to cash in quick by selling things. PGI has clearly put the priority on getting short term cash by prioritizing their resources on the part that makes short term cash.
No one should complain about them trying to make a buck. The issue is that they seem to be concentrating their resources on short term gain. They have hired more people to work on the short term sale part than to work on maintaining, updating and developing the long term part of the game combined. That's what a lot of people are complaining about. 20 people working on mechs for selling, 18 people working on all the other aspects of the game. That's a recipe for short term cash grabbing and long term burn out. People can only play a limited game with limited modes and no end game for so long. If they get bored and move on, you won't have anyone around to utilize the other aspects. Maybe that's their goal. Cash in quick, string people along with the carrot of CW always just 6 months away. I guess that's one way to run a business.

[WM Jeri]

Dracol, on 16 December 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

The 80/20 ratio is found throughout business theory.

80% of a business's revenue comes from 20% of their clientel.
80% of retail sales happen the 20% of the year right before Xmas.

So, when it comes to the Clan pre-sale....

The majority of the money gained in presales will only be from 1/5th of the player base
The majority of discretionary spending happens before Christmas, and there would be no other time for PGI to sell the clan pre-package except now.

Those of you waiting for features, protesting balance, or just playing the game for free are not the targets of the clan prepackage sale.

No, the Clan pre-package was released for those who are patient, enjoy playing the game, and have a desire to spend money on it. These people, the 20%, will receive the majority (80%) of PGI's attention.... since they will be providing 80% of the sales.

Edited: Corrected a misspelling

Really...I have spent several hundred dollars on this game...but not a penny more until I see progress and even then my attention may have moved on to other things. Our sales group has sales in the hundreds of millions of dollars where I work and I do quarterly analysis on complaint trending and analysis as the Director of Operations for our firm and I will simply tell you the easiest business to get with the greatest rate of return is that which is from our existing customer base on repeat business, which is why I do the complaint trending so I know where to focus my corrective actions and what to prioritize on addressing.

I will also tell you the easiest business to lose is from our existing customer base...it is also most of the time the most costly to lose.

Your 80/20 rule does not take into account how many of those whales are holding back, as second in command of a Clan that had over 150 founders and many Phoenix and Sabre buyers who were also purchasers of multiple Hero's and MC buys I can tell you none of our Clan has purchased any of the Clan mechs nor do they intend to do so until and if we see substantial developments released on the 4th.

For many of us thats a date that determines if we even stay with the game despite for many of us our several hundred dollar investments.

So if your speaking for PGI since we don't matter they should not really worry about us buying anything...and I will say if they miss the milestone of the 4th a good many of our 100 + members who have been in a holding pattern since their Sabre purchases will move on. If they are even ok losing 1 customer then they have the wrong customer service mindset and I don't think they want you being their sales rep since you seem to think its ok.

Edited by WM Jeri, 09 January 2014 - 03:52 PM.

[Ransack]

Daggett, on 24 December 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

It seems that you have misunderstood the packages. Those are preorder packs which grants you the right to be the first one to try out the new mechs while supporting the game. And so far they delivered exactly this.


Strange... My game works perfectly fine. Even the crashes and HUD-problems are gone. I can remember quite well that last year large parts of the community cried "Screw new features, fix the game!" And they did exactly this, they fixed lots of technical issues. Now some of the same guys are whining about delayed features.

And can you enlighten us why Clan-Tech should make IS-Tech obsolete?
It is totally obvious that PGI's current course is to nerf them so hard that they fit IS-power level. So you can be totally sure that IS-tech will not get obsolete. The thing which should rather be discussed is if nerfing is the most elegant route to solve the clan power issues.


Seriously no one forced you to spend so much money. You could have had almost equal fun by spending only 50$ like i did.
You wanted to try out the new mechs first (and to get some unique stuff) and were willing to pay for that. It's totally unfair to attach your feature wishes to those purchases and demand things which never have been the content of those packs.

If you really want to compare your MWO spendings to retail PC games than at least do it with the special collector's editions, because basically you spend $230 for the MWO equivalent of a collectors edition. The standard Edition of MWO is the FREE one which is unbeatable in terms of 'bang-for-the-buck' compared to retail games like Battlefield 4.

And in this comparison retail collector's editions are often equally or more expensive.

Examples? Here:
- Fallout3 Exclusive Survival Edition: 200$
- Dead Space Ultra Limited Edition: 1000$ new, 350$ used
- The Last of us Post-Pandemic Edition: 475$
- Assassins Creed Master Assassin Edition: 400$
- Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 Prestige Edition: 180-220$

and the list goes on and on.

And like the examples above no one forces you to spend hundreds of dollars for early access and collector's stuff.

Late to this party, but since it jumped to the first page, I've got to ask how it is that you can honestly compare full games a lot with DLC added in to the price of a piece of digital addon in an incomplete game?

[Rebas Kradd]

Time to side with the haters.

PGI is unpopular. That's why these prices are excessive in my eyes. They've fallen a year behind and it's casting a shadow on everything they do. If they'd had a more successful 2013 and a few more met deadlines, they'd have ground to stand on with these prices, but as it is, they don't. Unfair? Maybe, but that's the ****** of reputation. It affects perception.

Working joes don't have time for Economic Theory 101 and 80/20 and why these prices are actually better than esoteric yadda yadda. Someone in PGI's marketing department needs to realize that they are financially beholden to 100-IQ people who, unjust as it is, are still going to inevitably judge PGI by one number alone: the price of the Madcat. Compare that to Hawken's 20% off sales and you've got a recipe for skepticism, regardless of what the numbers really say. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

PGI needs to engage in some good old-fashioned high-visibility man-of-the-people populist thinking right now. It's the sort of thing you do when your game's content is lacking. Don't throw all financial wisdom out the window, but give us a mom-and-pop break, one connected to our wallets rather than our cockpit bauble collection, and preferably a break that doesn't sound like it was already planned at the moment the first bad deal was proposed (ahem a la carte cough). The free premium time was a good idea; it's too bad it didn't get more publicity. Positive word of mouth is badly needed for this game.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 09 January 2014 - 04:19 PM.

[Dracol]

WM Jeri, on 09 January 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Really...I have spent several hundred dollars on this game...but not a penny more until I see progress and even then my attention may have moved on to other things. Our sales group has sales in the hundreds of millions of dollars where I work and I do quarterly analysis on complaint trending and analysis as the Director of Operations for our firm and I will simply tell you the easiest business to get with the greatest rate of return is that which is from our existing customer base on repeat business, which is why I do the complaint trending so I know where to focus my corrective actions and what to prioritize on addressing.

I will also tell you the easiest business to lose is from our existing customer base...it is also most of the time the most costly to lose.

I appreciate the thought out response. One question, what is the average yearly spending of a client? $100 to $200 or a couple thousand?

The reason I ask is because it seems to me, when it comes to video games, there is a limit to the amount of money an average gamer will spend. I totally agree with you that if a customer leaves and the company loses a couple thousand dollar then retaining that customer should be a top priority.

But, if PGI generates more income per new player verses retaining an existing player, it would make logical sense for PGI/IGP to continue to develop their game in a way to generate new players, verses retaining players who would spend less from this point forward.

The negative aspect of this approach would be existing players feeling slighted, which turns into bad PR, which negatively affects new player signups and retention.