292 replies to this topic

[AdamBaines]

Marack Drock, on 17 December 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

There is no story to this game! This game will be community warfare which will violate Lore with every planet conquered. There can't be true lore in this game. That's the point.

Look, if after the last phase of CW comes out and we still have a game similar to this one, then Ill be on board with you. Buy the intent of CW is impress upon us the Battltech/Mechwarrior story and lore that makes sense, and then let the MWO Game shape ITS lore. Some mechanics that come from lore just wont work. It will break the game and no one will have fun, not even you. Im not going to say your opinion is wrong because its your opinion. I get frustrated as well with some decisions PGI makes but Im still here because it Battletech and believe, even if its slowly, PGI will get us a product similar to GEnie MPBT I used to play back in the day where Im a faction and fighting over planets, talking smack and RPing while doing it. Will it be different? Yes. Will it be Battletech? Yes.

Realize, this game is not just about you and what YOU want, or even your group you play with want no matter how large. The game must be viable to live and if modifying some of the lore comes with that price tag, so be it.

Its a similar but different animal. Deal with it or go.

Personally I hope you stay, at least until CW is complete and given a fair shake and the quirks worked out.

[ReuSeven]

Guys tell me one thing... did the can invasion destroy all the Houses?

I played MW2 but skipped MW3 and moved on to MW4 and mercs, the clans did not rule over all, so how did the IS Houses survive past 3050?

and no I don't own any Battle tech books but would like to get it.

[pbiggz]

ReuSeven, on 10 January 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Guys tell me one thing... did the can invasion destroy all the Houses?

I played MW2 but skipped MW3 and moved on to MW4 and mercs, the clans did not rule over all, so how did the IS Houses survive past 3050?

and no I don't own any Battle tech books but would like to get it.

Does that answer your question?

[AaronWolf]

To be honest, I love the lore of the Clans. And their flavor was being a superior force over the IS of the Invasions period.

But I see the point also of nerfing the weapons just slightly. Their still wayyyyyyy better then IS in my opinion still, and in the hands of skilled pilots-they will be far more then effective in combat.

So where is the problem, really?

Both sides will have their own flavor.

And good on all the Clanners who understand this. Looking forward to meeting you on the battlefield one day.

[Kael Posavatz]

PGI nerfing the Clans?

People need to consult their sourcebooks again. As it is the IS mechs are OP for every military in the IS with the exception of the Wolf Dragoons.

With the ready access to XL engines, Endo-Steel, Ferro-Fibrous armor, and all the rest we are currently playing with Star League-vintage equipment. This is, effectively, the same stuff ComStar had at Tukayyid and that NOBODY else had. And it goes a step beyond what ComStar ha because we can easily swap out weapons, engines, structures, and all the rest. No IS military in lore was able to provide a fully customized 'mech for each of its warriors.

In Lore OmniMechs were not able to swap around fixed equipment. Such equipment necessarily included the engine, structure, and armor, but also, depending upon the mech, included things like heat sinks, jump jets, and even light weapons. Clan lasers had increased damage and range, and...all the rest.

PGI? Says Omnis will have unmodifiable engines, structure and armor and lasers will have increased beam durations. So, not only will lasers have higher potential damage (As they should) they will also require increased skill to take full advantage of. Since Clan Warriors are (supposed to be) better than IS warriors, this too functions as it should.

Changes to range, possible heat penalties, and the like will serve to cool down the arms race. Personally I think this a fine idea because I would like to see IS forces fielding IS equipment, and Clan forces fielding Clan equipment. That would be far more "lore-based" even if the weapons are not so great as they are in TT, than for the DCMS to be issuing challenges from the cockpits of their Stormcrows, and the Lyran-half of the AFFC stomping around the battlefield in Dire Wolves.

Salvo-fire streak missiles? Need some skill to keep them locked on and manage heat--oh, and to pick targets or AMS will smack tem down. Scaled damage increment for LRMs? Actually, I am kind of meh about this one, but again, some increase in skill needed to keep your enemies outside the null-damage zone. (And really, is that so big a difference from what we currently have that Clan Warriors will be unable to compensate? Get real).

Since no actual final numbers have been posted, and those we have seen regarding weapons are 'for example only', I am going to sit back and reserve judgment for when we get some actual FACTS for a change. Personal Observation: PGI has done better with that of late so I am cautiously optimistic.

And speaking of Lore... No player with Kurita tags has ever accepted a duel-challenge when I have thrown one out. In fact, for some reason they seem to jump at the chance to disrupt a duel. Not sure why that is, but it's something I wanted to point out.

Oh, and while I am on the subject of Lore, the original post. In regards to the Battlemaster, yes, production had ceased. HOWEVER, ComStar maintained a great quantity of these machines and they were among the BattleMechs ComStar provided to House Kurita prior to the War of 3039. In fact, Theodore Kurita used a BLR-1C, a model used by the SLDF as a command unit, that had not been downgraded in the slightest.

[Tesunie]

Marack Drock, on 16 December 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Battlemaster was added and by Lore it was out of production by the 29th century.

One forgets that, even by lore, a mech that is out of production can still be used, sold and bought. If this was the case in real life, then my Metro has been out of production for years, so I should not have it, right?

Other mechs that weren't being produced anymore:
Cyclops (at least the command version)
Mongoose (as far as I can recall)
Stinger (They are still in the books and in lore, but stopped being produced)
Any LAM (the tech vanished when Novacat took the last factory that created the parts for them. They are still around though in lure)
Crab (Was able to be reproduced)
Mackie (first mech every to be produced)
(I don't guarantee any of this data, as I can't confirm with my normal sites, new computer and I don't have the links anymore.)

The point is, even if some of this might be wrong, that even if they stopped being produced, being able to own one wouldn't be impossible. Mechs lasted for a long time, and they got repaired and refitted a lot in their lives. Battlemasters, still being produced or not, is considered a well sought after mech.

[Soule]

I remember playing CHR and loved the fact that when you fight the clans you could have a large tonnage advantage and still get creamed, am I the only one that wanted to relive that experience? oh well.
I think the "nerfs" PGI has postulated could work, my problem that they have a history of not being able to do what they say. I come back and play every once and while but get bored of arena shooting (if you like it then I am indeed happy for you) The net code issues aren't fixed, last time I played they still hadn't fixed collisions, they promised when they took them out that it would be temporary and they would be back. (loved taking a hunchi and knocking over a jenner) That was two years ago? lets say year and a half. And now they are selling the clans without any apparent progress on CW.
I can't spend any money on this game (faith meter at zero) but if you like the game as is then keep spending the money, or if you believe that what they said they will do, they will implement the please keep spending money.
I think the problem that the OP and many others have is they are unsatisfied but love MW, so they gripe about things such as lore not being followed because they want CW or something else that was promised but hasn't been implemented.
To those I say don't spend anymore money and wait. griping won't solve anything, just make sure to not spend anymore money.
If the lions have taught us anything its that if you keep spending money they will keep giving us scrap.

[smurph1983]

not sure if its been said/, as im too lazy to read 6 pages of other resposnes. (woudl have done if i caught thread earlier)

assuming lore means keeping it to the original story lines etc, i dont really think its a problem straying from timelines and even factual parts like certain variants not being released or go out of commission.
at the end of the day this isnt a fantasy world where you can re enact your take on the mechwarrior series its thier adaptation and were along for the ride. so long as they take cue's and the ending material delivered looks enough like mechwarrior im onboard.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Marack Drock, on 16 December 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Well we are already destroying the Lore as it is by nerfing Clans and PGI won't be implementing Zellbrigen for sure. So while we are at it lets just take out Lore. Battlemaster was added and by Lore it was out of production by the 29th century. We are destroying Lore with every year. Since Lore is disappearing anyways lets just take it out. Especially since community warfare is coming out that means we can conquer any planet even if it contradicts lore. So how about we just take it out and be done with it.

P.S. We also got rid of it when Clans didn't come last year meaning the invasion is a year off already.

if your going to quote lore, you should do your research first. i will do it for you using sarna.

-Sometime in 3081, Hollis Incorporated reintroduced the Battlemaster to their Corey production line
-Blankenburg took back control of the facility on soul in 3064 and put the BattleMaster into production since 90% of the parts used in the Katana were actually interchangeable with those of the BattleMaster.
-J.B. BattleMechs Incorporated was created in 3053 by Jilliane Suliben. the primary site on storfors produces the BLR-4s and the BLR-10s.
-red devil produces battlemasters on pandora, BLR-1g and blr-3s, even after being taken over by the jade falcons, the second line mech production increased and it maintains 85% output even thru the jihad.
-trellshire produces battlemasters on twycross until 3080 when the diamond sharks get nuked there. the plant is considered heavily damaged after that.
-battlemasters were produced on and off by tao mechworks on styke until the jihad, the plant was then moved/rebuilt on sarmaxa. however battlemasters werent built at the new plant.

as you can see there are plenty of battlemasters before the game timeline, and plenty of parts and new mechs afterwords to allow them into the game.

Edited by Geist Null, 10 January 2014 - 10:23 AM.

[J0anna]

Actually as stated so far many clan mechs will be significantly inferior to their IS counterparts. The Kit Fox and the Adder are restricted to a top speed of 106.9 (with speed tweak), the Kit Fox has about the same armor as a Locust (despite being 10 tons heavier) - it will not be competitive in this game as stated.

The Adder Has a built in flamer that you can't remove, is restricted to 106.9 Kph, and about the same armor as a typical jenner. It does have 16 tons of pod space to the jenner's 9.5 (typical assuming 2jj) however losing 50 kph in a light isn't that useful in MWO (I don't see any jenner's dropping engines to pack many more weapons), besides if we lower the Jenner to 106.9 kph (and keep the 2xjj) it winds up with 14.5 tons of weapon space (since you need 2 heat sinks). Thus not very useful.

Oh, yes that's ALL the clan lights there are...

Now lets look at the Summoner - 70 tons, 350 XL, 5xJJ, ferro, 20.5 tons of pod space and 364 armor (about the same as a Shadow Hawk), If we compare it to a Cataphract 3d (300xl, 2jj, endo, and 432 armor). We see the phract has 35.5 tons of weapon space. Here's a point of comparison, the Shadow Hawk with a 300XL, Endo and 2xJJ can carry 24 tons of weapons - so you're using 70 tons of drop weight, where a 55 ton mech can arguably do better.....In current MWO, it's again not very useful.

Oh, but the difference is the weapons you say (that are getting nerfed too), the Summoner carries an LB 10-X (don't see the clan version being any better - what's it going to do, shoot further?), an LRM 15 (great it now does some damage at short range) and A Clan ERPPC - which if they leave alone WILL be a good weapon and might ALMOST make it worth it. Oh and 3 tons of ammo total (1 ton LB 10-X, 2 tons LRM) - so some weapons need to be dropped to carry enough ammo for a typical fight since we can't customize the mech.

I could go on, but to me the bottom line is: PGI if you're going to restrict the mechs as discussed, you need to leave the weapons alone. If you're going to nerf the weapons, the mechs need to be as customizable as IS mechs or they will wind up being inferior. Balance in this game is different than TT.

The other problem I have with nerfing the weapons, is what happens to weapons down the line? Will you nerf heavy lasers? X-Pulse lasers? Rotary AC's? MRM's? Because by 3060 the IS had developed weapons that equaled the clan weapons, so if you nerf the weapons, you'll have NO CHOICE but to forever balance ALL weapons against 3050 standards - which is wrong. For those that cry that 3060 is 9 years away - PGI has started they may advance the timeline whenever they want. Being that we probably won't be fighting Tukkayid (which would have been A LOT of fun, i.e. everyone signs up for IS or Clan) - 3053 through 3056+ will be pretty boring.

[Kenyon Burguess]

I highly disagree about the effectiveness of the kitfox and adder. you don't need to go faster than 106.9 to wreck other light mechs when you have that much firepower at hand. the problem with most light pilots is that they cut their teeth on the broken hitbox meta, and are stopping to fire at their opponents thinking they are protected long enough to get the kill. we call them baby seals and just simply turn and club them to death. a good light pilot never stops, never over heats, and never gets closer than 200 meters from his target to avoid ecm warning. kitfox and adder will be an excellent choice for those pilots, as well as those who enjoy long range sniping.

[Tesunie]

Moenrg, on 10 January 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Actually as stated so far many clan mechs will be significantly inferior to their IS counterparts. The Kit Fox and the Adder are restricted to a top speed of 106.9 (with speed tweak), the Kit Fox has about the same armor as a Locust (despite being 10 tons heavier) - it will not be competitive in this game as stated.

The Adder Has a built in flamer that you can't remove, is restricted to 106.9 Kph, and about the same armor as a typical jenner. It does have 16 tons of pod space to the jenner's 9.5 (typical assuming 2jj) however losing 50 kph in a light isn't that useful in MWO (I don't see any jenner's dropping engines to pack many more weapons), besides if we lower the Jenner to 106.9 kph (and keep the 2xjj) it winds up with 14.5 tons of weapon space (since you need 2 heat sinks). Thus not very useful.

Oh, yes that's ALL the clan lights there are...

Now lets look at the Summoner - 70 tons, 350 XL, 5xJJ, ferro, 20.5 tons of pod space and 364 armor (about the same as a Shadow Hawk), If we compare it to a Cataphract 3d (300xl, 2jj, endo, and 432 armor). We see the phract has 35.5 tons of weapon space. Here's a point of comparison, the Shadow Hawk with a 300XL, Endo and 2xJJ can carry 24 tons of weapons - so you're using 70 tons of drop weight, where a 55 ton mech can arguably do better.....In current MWO, it's again not very useful.

Oh, but the difference is the weapons you say (that are getting nerfed too), the Summoner carries an LB 10-X (don't see the clan version being any better - what's it going to do, shoot further?), an LRM 15 (great it now does some damage at short range) and A Clan ERPPC - which if they leave alone WILL be a good weapon and might ALMOST make it worth it. Oh and 3 tons of ammo total (1 ton LB 10-X, 2 tons LRM) - so some weapons need to be dropped to carry enough ammo for a typical fight since we can't customize the mech.

I could go on, but to me the bottom line is: PGI if you're going to restrict the mechs as discussed, you need to leave the weapons alone. If you're going to nerf the weapons, the mechs need to be as customizable as IS mechs or they will wind up being inferior. Balance in this game is different than TT.

The other problem I have with nerfing the weapons, is what happens to weapons down the line? Will you nerf heavy lasers? X-Pulse lasers? Rotary AC's? MRM's? Because by 3060 the IS had developed weapons that equaled the clan weapons, so if you nerf the weapons, you'll have NO CHOICE but to forever balance ALL weapons against 3050 standards - which is wrong. For those that cry that 3060 is 9 years away - PGI has started they may advance the timeline whenever they want. Being that we probably won't be fighting Tukkayid (which would have been A LOT of fun, i.e. everyone signs up for IS or Clan) - 3053 through 3056+ will be pretty boring.

You forget about the advantages of their weapons. If they keep clan weapons to clan mechs, then clan mechs should have enough of an advantage still in firepower and weapon configurations to more than make up for any lose of armor or speed.

However, they haven't released all information on the clans yet, so I shall be reserving judgement till later.

AKA: They might be less armored, but they should have massively more weapons to bare, making the armor concepts about equal to potential damage concepts.

[Valencewolf]

I fully support ignoring lore. I don't necessarily have anything against Battletech lore, but I suspect that the reason anyone got interested in Battletech was the big stompy robots. If we pull off the shackles of lore (barring those lore elements that help maintain a particular flavor), PGI can concentrate on making a game about big stompy robots that is fun.

[CoffiNail]

Valencewolf, on 10 January 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

I fully support ignoring lore. I don't necessarily have anything against Battletech lore, but I suspect that the reason anyone got interested in Battletech was the big stompy robots. If we pull off the shackles of lore (barring those lore elements that help maintain a particular flavor), PGI can concentrate on making a game about big stompy robots that is fun.

I think for a lot of fans of past MechWarrior games and Battletech in general. The big stompy (not robots)bi-pedal tanks were a nice draw. I for one love to dive head first in to BattleTech Lore. Battletech is amazingly rich in content, and to ignore such a large universe is like ignoring the Star Wars universe in a Star Wars game.

[Valencewolf]

And I'm sure the history and characters, events, battles, etc. in the Battletech fluff have been well written and, as stories, are probably individually engrossing. But military sci-fi is a rather generic field, and Battletech is nothing if not military sci-fi. Their unique (at least at the time) claim to fame was the big stompy robots (they look like robots, they're robots, ask any 3 year old).

I strongly suspect that the mechs came first, the IS, Clans, etc. afterwards. The lore merely provided the barest explanation for why the mechs on team A were fighting the mechs on team B. I guess I can't speak for anyone else, but ask yourself: would you give two (beeps) about the interaction between the IS and the Clans if this were a rather generic FPS? No mechs, no gigantic cannons, no missile batteries; just you, a space rifle, and 11 buddies running around a moon city? No, you care about the IS/Clan because of the mechs.

Nerf those Clans, PGI! I say make Clan mechs the sort that provide a really good return for actual skill. Make them tricky for your run-of-the-mill pugger (such as the longer laser duration), but have better overall results from the skill needed to make that work right. When (if) I see a Clan mech on the battlefield, I should think one of two things: 1) mommy just bought Jimmy a new Clan mech that he doesn't know how to use and I'm going to stomp him; or 2) oh (beep), this guy was already better than me, and now he's got a Timber Wolf.

Ultimately, in the struggle between lore and game balance, lore is going to get the boot. I'd rather have a game that remains fun to play (make any argument you want, MWO is still fun) but deviates from fluff, than one that stays loyal to the fluff and peters out because the majority of non-fluff gamers don't want to play it (or, by extension, pay for it) at all.

[Yalan]

CoffiNail, on 10 January 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

I think for a lot of fans of past MechWarrior games and Battletech in general. The big stompy (not robots)bi-pedal tanks were a nice draw. I for one love to dive head first in to BattleTech Lore. Battletech is amazingly rich in content, and to ignore such a large universe is like ignoring the Star Wars universe in a Star Wars game.

Except that star wars doesn't have official lore that includes game play mechanics. It is only setting/plot. Also, many times Star Wars games set the empire and rebels as being equal when the empire clearly has the number advantage to the rebels based on lore. It's just easier for them to get away with it.

As far as MWO goes though, PGI has already stated their reasoning for the nerf. Just like D&D, MTG, and many other TT games are adjusted to work for PC games, Battletech needs to be. Does this mean they should disregard all lore? No. Things should always follow lore when they have an option. But good luck finding a 100% perfect adaption from a dice-rolling turb-based game where you can change the rules/setting each game you play with your buddies. PGI can always do better but in this case the demands for lore to be 'accurate' just seem ridiculous.

[J0anna]

Tesunie, on 10 January 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

You forget about the advantages of their weapons. If they keep clan weapons to clan mechs, then clan mechs should have enough of an advantage still in firepower and weapon configurations to more than make up for any lose of armor or speed.

However, they haven't released all information on the clans yet, so I shall be reserving judgement till later.

AKA: They might be less armored, but they should have massively more weapons to bare, making the armor concepts about equal to potential damage concepts.

But they are nerfing the weapons (and that worries me). Besides, you can adjust the rate of fire/range/heat all you want - an LB 10-X does 10 damage, period. An LRM 15 does 15 damage (at best), period. A UAC 20 fires 2 shots that do 20 damage each, period (and with ghost heat, double tapping a UAC 20, will be like firing 2 AC 20's (just like a boom jager atm) - so good luck cooling that. Not to mention they have hinted at increasing the heat on Clan weapons - you want an ERPPC that has 20 heat?

I agree we need far more details before we can make a final decision (including on whether we should spend real money), because as stated (and with drop limits becoming a reality) many Clan mechs might easily end up being useless in CW.

What should bother most people is that while Clan mechs were massively overpowered in TT, a huge part of that reason is that in TT, you can't customize battlemechs (that is an optional rule, and NOT one of the standard rules in TT). As soon as you allow customization, the gap between clan mechs and IS mechs begins to narrow. Allowing customization of IS mechs is a HUGE buff, denying that to clan mechs and their 'overpowered' weapons are all they have to compensate, take that away and they quickly fall into the inferior range (with a few exceptions, that are pretty close to optimized with MWO's meta).

Geist Null, on 10 January 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

I highly disagree about the effectiveness of the kitfox and adder. you don't need to go faster than 106.9 to wreck other light mechs when you have that much firepower at hand. the problem with most light pilots is that they cut their teeth on the broken hitbox meta, and are stopping to fire at their opponents thinking they are protected long enough to get the kill. we call them baby seals and just simply turn and club them to death. a good light pilot never stops, never over heats, and never gets closer than 200 meters from his target to avoid ecm warning. kitfox and adder will be an excellent choice for those pilots, as well as those who enjoy long range sniping.

Then why don't we see Jenner's and Spiders doing this? They could certainly drop engine sizes and greatly increase their firepower, but they don't. And not just 'bad' pilots, but the best ones - I'll tell you why - because slower mechs can't disengage, once you are caught, you're forced into a fight - and with your longer ranged weapons, you'll be chewed up and spit out in very short order. What you are missing is they in addition to nerfing the mechs, they are nerfing the weapons, so your 106.9 kph Kit Fox isn't going to have a weapon advantage over a 106.9 kph spider. Don't believe me - put an XL180 in your spider and do a few drops - oh and limit your armor to 144 (so take off about 5 to 10 armor points in ALL areas) - you can easily carry 15 tons of weapons with that setup - I'm surprised that the 'best' light pilots haven't thought of that.....

Edited by Moenrg, 10 January 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[Tesunie]

Moenrg, on 10 January 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

But they are nerfing the weapons (and that worries me). Besides, you can adjust the rate of fire/range/heat all you want - an LB 10-X does 10 damage, period. An LRM 15 does 15 damage (at best), period. A UAC 20 fires 2 shots that do 20 damage each, period (and with ghost heat, double tapping a UAC 20, will be like firing 2 AC 20's (just like a boom jager atm) - so good luck cooling that. Not to mention they have hinted at increasing the heat on Clan weapons - you want an ERPPC that has 20 heat?

I agree we need far more details before we can make a final decision (including on whether we should spend real money), because as stated (and with drop limits becoming a reality) many Clan mechs might easily end up being useless in CW.

What should bother most people is that while Clan mechs were massively overpowered in TT, a huge part of that reason is that in TT, you can't customize battlemechs (that is an optional rule, and NOT one of the standard rules in TT). As soon as you allow customization, the gap between clan mechs and IS mechs begins to narrow. Allowing customization of IS mechs is a HUGE buff, denying that to clan mechs and their 'overpowered' weapons are all they have to compensate, take that away and they quickly fall into the inferior range (with a few exceptions, that are pretty close to optimized with MWO's meta).

They are discussing possible changed to how they work. Like the lasers (which do more damage) taking less than a second longer to finish dealing that extra damage (while still at longer range and less weight). As far as LRMs, do you really want CLRMs being used as SSRMs that will do much more damage? Instead of a damage drop off, I'd be more tempted to have the missiles spread out a lot at the start of their launch, but close in tighter after 180-200m range. This would make them still arm up close, but splash their damage literally everywhere.

As I said before, I shall withhold any judgements on anything clan till it is actually implemented into the game or PGI gives a "This is exactly how we are doing this" thread being posted. Till then, we have concepts on how they intend to approach the clans, but nothing solid.

Moenrg, on 10 January 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Then why don't we see Jenner's and Spiders doing this? They could certainly drop engine sizes and greatly increase their firepower, but they don't. And not just 'bad' pilots, but the best ones - I'll tell you why - because slower mechs can't disengage, once you are caught, you're forced into a fight - and with your longer ranged weapons, you'll be chewed up and spit out in very short order. What you are missing is they in addition to nerfing the mechs, they are nerfing the weapons, so your 106.9 kph Kit Fox isn't going to have a weapon advantage over a 106.9 kph spider. Don't believe me - put an XL180 in your spider and do a few drops - oh and limit your armor to 144 (so take off about 5 to 10 armor points in ALL areas) - you can easily carry 15 tons of weapons with that setup - I'm surprised that the 'best' light pilots haven't thought of that.....

Clan XL engines (as far as we know) will still only have 2 crits on the sides, meaning they can lose a side and keep going, with the weight savings of the XL.

Weapons are still going to be lighter, as far as my understanding, besides maybe the CLRMs. Most clan weapons are about half as much weight as IS, or they do more damage at the same weight, with extra range on most all of it. This means they can put or deal almost twice as much damage per ton of "pod" space compared to IS mechs, as well as out range many of their IS counterparts. This means they can get a salvo or two extra off before the IS mechs might even be able to deal damage back.

Not all of us light pilots run super fast. I have a few slower designs myself, like a Cicada (most people consider it a light) that only moves 90kph. Or my 90kph Locust 3s (which does well). A slower light can work well, depending upon how it is played.

Basically, once again, I'm going to withhold judgement till they are here. There is currently not enough information on the subject to provide any kind of accurate opinions as of yet. We have the "concepts" post, which isn't anything solid and all "placeholder" for the moment. Not to mention, just like with the LRM changes after LRM Apocalypse, I'll see how it feels on the battlefield too, as numbers and "spreadsheetwarrior" don't always do a good enough job of seeing if it feels right.

[jebushunter]

is this mech assault online or mechwarrior online? get it because mech assault sucked and they f**ked up the clans too, and broke cannon


gg kinda

[Gaan Cathal]

Geist Null, on 10 January 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

I highly disagree about the effectiveness of the kitfox and adder. you don't need to go faster than 106.9 to wreck other light mechs when you have that much firepower at hand. the problem with most light pilots is that they cut their teeth on the broken hitbox meta, and are stopping to fire at their opponents thinking they are protected long enough to get the kill. we call them baby seals and just simply turn and club them to death. a good light pilot never stops, never over heats, and never gets closer than 200 meters from his target to avoid ecm warning. kitfox and adder will be an excellent choice for those pilots, as well as those who enjoy long range sniping.

Yeah. Because a light travelling at ~100kph only has to worry about other lights. Definitely not a sitting target for any mech on the battlefield to take out with an alpha or two. Nosir.

And no light pilot worth considering stops to take a shot, firstly that more or less nullified the borked hit detection when it was around, and secondly you need to be a drooling imbecile to need to stop to hit your target in this game.