292 replies to this topic

[Drakaisyl]

ssm, on 17 December 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Yes, exacly, that's the point. It simply can't! It's FPS shooter, not some kind of online LARP, we're not reenacting Lore, just play around with stompy robots.

And that should be starting point of any discussion about things like balance or Clan implementation.

Well...if there is no lore,why do all want the Clan Weapons in their IS mechs...oh...ye...because they are superiour LOREWISE.So ye...get rid of the lore,get rid of all the ClanMechs,ClanTech,ClanWeapons as LORE doesn't matter.

[ssm]

Drakaisyl, on 17 December 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Well...if there is no lore,why do all want the Clan Weapons in their IS mechs...oh...ye...because they are superiour LOREWISE.So ye...get rid of the lore,get rid of all the ClanMechs,ClanTech,ClanWeapons as LORE doesn't matter.

Firstly - I don't, I'm personally puretech guy. Secondly - It's not that Lore doesn't matter - it's just that it has to step aside if interferes with things like gameplay balance.

That's why in games it's called fluff.

[Joseph Mallan]

Marack Drock, on 17 December 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

There is no story to this game! This game will be community warfare which will violate Lore with every planet conquered. There can't be true lore in this game. That's the point.

The Lore is that I am here to fight the invasion. If I am a member of the 10th Lyran Guards I will be fighting on the worlds they fought in the lore. That we are playing the lore if we change the outcome by some longshot then the lore changes, but We will be on to the next planet the 10th fought on, and then (maybe) Some Mercs hold the Planet in our stead. Lore Being satisfied while the history is changing. I've run a few Campaigns, that started out with the Lore, but deviated in varying degrees. This isn't my first rodeo, I've have been at this for a few decades now.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 December 2013 - 10:36 AM.

[Drakaisyl]

ssm, on 17 December 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Firstly - I don't, I'm personally puretech guy. Secondly - It's not that Lore doesn't matter - it's just that it has to step aside if interferes with things like gameplay balance.

That's why in games it's called fluff.

I didn't meant you - following your words I would put you to 1-5 % of the comunity who are puretech.Most of the community here will just go for mixed tech,as they want to be OP and the best of everything.

[ssm]

Drakaisyl, on 17 December 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I didn't meant you - following your words I would put you to 1-5 % of the comunity who are puretech.Most of the community here will just go for mixed tech,as they want to be OP and the best of everything.

And I would too - by "being puretech' I meant that I don't like and want mixtech, not that I wouldn't use it if implemented.

[Drunk Canuck]

Garamanus, on 16 December 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

If the Clan Mechs were introduced at the level of superiority lore suggests, no one would take Inner Sphere mechs, founders and phoenix packages would be a sham/waste.

In MWO the Clan Mechs have to be comparable to Inner Sphere mechs for playability, and I guess that there will not be much difference in the weapons either.

Roll on 17 June 2014...

It's not that Inner Sphere chassis are inferior, in fact the have some really good quality Mech's, it's just everything else is inferior about them. Clan Mech's advantages are in having lighter weight engines that use the same critical slot size as Inner Sphere standard engines but at less weight then an IS XL engine. Also having longer range and more heat efficient weapons along side improved heat sinks that also use less critical slots, not to mention having better Endo Steel exoskeletons and Ferro Fibrous armor makes them able to pack even more firepower per ton.

[John Norad]

pbiggz, on 16 December 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

It is not an unfounded assumption, it is a proven fact, because it has happened before. Every single past mechwarrior game has suffered from the same condition.

"It has happened before, so it will happen again" is NOT a fact. It's self-fullfilling prophecy. At best.

pbiggz, on 16 December 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

You have no idea what "right" is, you just arbitrarily hate what PGI has suggested because it nerfs your precious EZ win button. Grow up, because that EZ win button has already been taken from you, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. No amount of forum whining thinly veiled under "articulated" arguments that actually deliver no real counter to any of the points in this thread can change that.

Now that bit of utter garbage and rambling is among the most stupidest things I've read in a forum, in a long while.
Assumption, strawman, insult, it's all in there.
I am not an avid clan fanboy and pretty much prefer IS units by the way, mr. magic crystal balls. And I'm interested in balance, albeit not some lame "everything the same" type of balance, mind you. So please take your pathetic, narrow minded forum warrior ego and move out of the way. It hardly adds anything worthwhile to the discussion.

Oh and the reason I didn't explicitly explain what 'right' would be is that I no longer care about this game in a way that would justify the time it would take to do it properly.
I reckon you have never worked in the business? Well, guess what, I have.

[Pariah Devalis]

... Did you really just dredge up a thread that was dead for half a month just to angrily retort at someone? I know this reply is utterly useless to the topic of the conversation, but just wow. There are better things to do in life than revisit past arguments just for the sake of getting yourself worked up.

Quite honestly, I am not sure if I should be appalled at your desire to continue the anger here or impressed that you managed to come back here to reply to a two week old comment.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 January 2014 - 09:31 PM.

[smokefield]

you know...if wanted ...zellbringer can be implemented in the game..but hell..pgi is not able to bring cw and make tyhis game bugfree and working. I think its very doable to implement a button next to each opponent that can be pushed when both agree to bring the fight one on one, and after the push to make everyone else not involved in another fight observer, or just teleport those 2 in another smaller arena until the fight its over....or whatever other scenario. we had this observer game in starcraft..mainly used for tournaments when observers were needed to make sure everyone acted correctly. the fact that pgi said they cant implement this because its hard..well..probably its hard for them since they have enough issues with cw and the rest or promises atm....so no one from pgi wants another issue on their heads lol. but its doable if wanted...lets be clear about it.

[pbiggz]

John Norad, on 02 January 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

"It has happened before, so it will happen again" is NOT a fact. It's self-fullfilling prophecy. At best.


Now that bit of utter garbage and rambling is among the most stupidest things I've read in a forum, in a long while.
Assumption, strawman, insult, it's all in there.
I am not an avid clan fanboy and pretty much prefer IS units by the way, mr. magic crystal balls. And I'm interested in balance, albeit not some lame "everything the same" type of balance, mind you. So please take your pathetic, narrow minded forum warrior ego and move out of the way. It hardly adds anything worthwhile to the discussion.

Oh and the reason I didn't explicitly explain what 'right' would be is that I no longer care about this game in a way that would justify the time it would take to do it properly.
I reckon you have never worked in the business? Well, guess what, I have.

Aww booboo, did i hurt your feelings?



I will not be arguing against you again, because that's exactly what you want. You know my position on this argument. You're entitled to have yours, but you're wrong. You should know that.

Also bumping 2 week old threads is called thread necromancy, and it is generally frowned upon.

smokefield, on 02 January 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

things that do make some sense

I see where you're coming from, but technically possible (its actually not too hard, the servers record the relevant data already) is not the same as feasible from a design perspective. The fact is unless both sides play with zellbrigen it's no fun. If the game is not fun then as developers pgi will have utterly failed.

[Tannhauser Gate]

I wholeheartedly want to see the game support rp elements such as Zell, Trails, CoEs, duels and what not. There are a lot of players who want more than lab-drop-shoot rinse repeat. BT has rich military cultures that span over 100 novels. Yes, the game should be an action sim first but also immersive in the tech, in the planets, and in the lore for those who want it. Even if only allowing players to rp in a meta-game on their own but provide a way to duel and corresponding points for it.

This is important. No one is asking for larp or forcing some players to rp when they don't want to. But the game should not disallow players to spice up their fun with lore-based lingo, drama, faction intrigue, or just simple honor and respect. Its fun stuff.

[pbiggz]

If there was a zell mode in private matches i'd be all for it.

[smokefield]

this should be a game that should grow continously. it shouldnt have a final form already projected. they shoudl always bring more CONTENT...and by this i am not reffering to new mechs, items and maps.

it should have more immersion and give much more options to the players...then a couple of maps and one game mode to play on.

[Appogee]

Marack Drock, on 16 December 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Since Lore is disappearing anyways lets just take it out.

It's been ''out'' for some time, as you pointed out. So what exactly are you asking for?

[Degalus]

Its realy funny how many players rage about the "balanced" Clantech and the missing Lore elements and never complain about the non lore omnilike IS Mechs.
What i know, IS Mechs arnt able to change their setting in BT. (Plz correcting me if im wrong.)
So if you want BT Lore you also need to look at the IS. (Also that Engines never be changeable also not for IS)
Will someone ever play IS in MWO if you forced to use the standard setting?
I dont think so. (and if... just a hand full of players)

I think PGI have found a nice balancing between Lore and balancing because we have still some lorewise bonuses for the Clantech.
Some player realy just want their OP builds back.

For the Zellbriger ... it just wouldnt work in mwo or could be balanced with "cant aim at same target". I have suggested something that maybe could simulate a litte the Zellbriger Clan Honor C-Bill. This would change the gameplay a little more to solorunners but let you still play like you want.

For OP:
I want a balanced Lore. I dont want to take out the Lore and dont want to follow it stupid into the Death.
Sure some BT Fans cant handle it but its the best for Gameplay.

Just my opinion

[Joseph Mallan]

Degalus, on 03 January 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Its realy funny how many players rage about the "balanced" Clantech and the missing Lore elements and never complain about the non lore omnilike IS Mechs.
What i know, IS Mechs arnt able to change their setting in BT. (Plz correcting me if im wrong.)
So if you want BT Lore you also need to look at the IS. (Also that Engines never be changeable also not for IS)
Will someone ever play IS in MWO if you forced to use the standard setting?
I dont think so. (and if... just a hand full of players)

I think PGI have found a nice balancing between Lore and balancing because we have still some lorewise bonuses for the Clantech.
Some player realy just want their OP builds back.

For the Zellbriger ... it just wouldnt work in mwo or could be balanced with "cant aim at same target". I have suggested something that maybe could simulate a litte the Zellbriger Clan Honor C-Bill. This would change the gameplay a little more to solorunners but let you still play like you want.

For OP:
I want a balanced Lore. I dont want to take out the Lore and dont want to follow it stupid into the Death.
Sure some BT Fans cant handle it but its the best for Gameplay.

Just my opinion

Omnis would/should get an edge in that they should be allowed to be modified after the map is revealed. Time is handwavium. Accept it.

[Degalus]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

Omnis would/should get an edge in that they should be allowed to be modified after the map is revealed. Time is handwavium. Accept it.

?
I talk about the IS Mechs which shouldnt get non lore bonuses if we would take 1:1 Lore for Clans. I dont say Omnis shouldnt get the ability to modify.
Ps.: I like how PGI handle this so nope i dont want a LORE only or a non LORE. Like i said i want balanced Lore like PGI do it right now.

Edited by Degalus, 03 January 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Degalus, on 03 January 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Its realy funny how many players rage about the "balanced" Clantech and the missing Lore elements and never complain about the non lore omnilike IS Mechs.
What i know, IS Mechs arnt able to change their setting in BT. (Plz correcting me if im wrong.)
So if you want BT Lore you also need to look at the IS. (Also that Engines never be changeable also not for IS)
Will someone ever play IS in MWO if you forced to use the standard setting?
I dont think so. (and if... just a hand full of players)

I always complained about the IS 'Mechs being better than Omnies. I always said they need at least restricted hardpoints. "This energy hardpoint has size 1. You can mount a small or medium laser or a TAG but nothing more."

[Degalus]

CyclonerM, on 03 January 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

I always complained about the IS 'Mechs being better than Omnies. I always said they need at least restricted hardpoints. "This energy hardpoint has size 1. You can mount a small or medium laser or a TAG but nothing more."

But you are one of few peoples that thinking that way... sadly. But thats the point.
Many dont want to lose the non lore bonus on IS Mechs and want 1:1 Lore for Clans...

[CyclonerM]

Degalus, on 03 January 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

But you are one of few peoples that thinking that way... sadly. But thats the point.
Many dont want to lose the non lore bonus on IS Mechs and want 1:1 Lore for Clans...

I do not say you can use only stock IS 'Mechs.. But at least sized hardpoints! The only thing MW4 did well in the MechLab..