36 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

Varent, on 16 December 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

While valid I think that would probly deserve its own thread regarding jump jets in general. Keep in mind as well some mechs only have 2 jump jet slots in general, you dont want to arbitrarily nerf them and not allow them to even use there capabilities.

One JJ would produce ~35% of the max distance and height in with this system when the mech has a max of 2. There really needs to be a legit reason to want to push towards the maximum number of JJ's if you want to have the full utility that JJ's in general offer.

Edited by Foxfire, 16 December 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Varent]

Foxfire, on 16 December 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

One JJ would produce ~35% of the max distance and height in with this system when the mech has a max of 2. There really needs to be a legit reason to want to push towards the maximum number of JJ's if you want to have the full utility that JJ's in general offer.

again while valid that would deserve its own thread.... this is mostly to do with the jump sniping.

[3endless8oogie]

Black Templar, on 16 December 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

nope i didn't. if you have watched the whole video you will notice that small jumps are still possible and also let your fuel recharge quicker. however small jumps won't take you high enough to snipe effectively. light mechs work great in MWLL (especially in packs). just play the game for yourself and check it out, if you don't believe me. be warned though. MWLL plays a lot more like a simulation than an arcade shooter ;P

"simulation"? mwll? o...k...

But why implement such mechanics intead of adding deviation to ppc, ac 20, ac10 while in air? Would make more sense for an arcadeshooter like mwo...

Edited by 3endless8oogie, 16 December 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[Varent]

3endless8oogie, on 16 December 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

"simulation"? mwll? o...k...

But why implement such mechanics intead of adding deviation to ppc, ac 20, ac10 while in air? Would make more sense for an arcadeshooter like mwo...

It would have the dual purpose of changing the meta and making those mechs function differently. It would also create a new meta to make some unused mechs more popular wich is always good. Where as just changing the weapons would not have this effect.

For example the Heavy Metal would be the one highlander with 5 jump jets, Its very underused and would then have a value. Several mechs are like this.

Edited by Varent, 16 December 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

The first thing I'd like to see with Jump Jets is to standardize the height they can take us, possibly set a different heat value when they are used, and maybe also tie the acceleration to reach that height.

Spoiler

So height could be like this:

• 1 JJ - 30 M
  
• 2 JJ - 60 M
  
• 3 JJ - 90 M
  
• 4 JJ -120 M
  
• 5 JJ - 150 M
  
• and so on

That would give the SDR-5V the ability to jump to 360 M with 12 JJs.


Setting the heat value could be 1 heat per JJ, or whatever is fair to set.

Jump Jet acceleration could be tied to the Engine Rating and weight of the mech, so that a light with an XL 300 can accelerate faster than an Assault with an XL 300 for example.

Then we can tweak the shake to where having too few Jumps Jets from the max that can be mounted, increases screen shake.

So a CTF-3D has stock set up of 4 Jump Jets, so mounting only one limits jump height to 30 M and has a shake penalty of +75% to a standard value for screen shake.
Mounting two reduces the penalty to +50%, three reduces penalty to +25%.
Mounting the four, there still will be screen shake and no penalty, but it is slightly reduced from where it currently is, since the mech was designed to use that number of Jump Jets.

The same should work for Jenners 1 JJ, 30 M but 80% penalty. 2 JJ 60 M, 60% penalty and so on to the max value.

Mechs that can mount a higher max than their stock loadout of Jump Jets should still get any height bonus like the SDR 5V or VTR-9K, but the penalty for mounting less should be calculated from their stock numbers.

As for weapons, I'd like so see some variety.

[Varent]

Praetor Shepard, on 16 December 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

The first thing I'd like to see with Jump Jets is to standardize the height they can take us, possibly set a different heat value when they are used, and maybe also tie the acceleration to reach that height.

Spoiler

So height could be like this:

• 1 JJ - 30 M
  
• 2 JJ - 60 M
  
• 3 JJ - 90 M
  
• 4 JJ -120 M
  
• 5 JJ - 150 M
  
• and so on

That would give the SDR-5V the ability to jump to 360 M with 12 JJs.



Setting the heat value could be 1 heat per JJ, or whatever is fair to set.

Jump Jet acceleration could be tied to the Engine Rating and weight of the mech, so that a light with an XL 300 can accelerate faster than an Assault with an XL 300 for example.

Then we can tweak the shake to where having too few Jumps Jets from the max that can be mounted, increases screen shake.

So a CTF-3D has stock set up of 4 Jump Jets, so mounting only one limits jump height to 30 M and has a shake penalty of +75% to a standard value for screen shake.
Mounting two reduces the penalty to +50%, three reduces penalty to +25%.
Mounting the four, there still will be screen shake and no penalty, but it is slightly reduced from where it currently is, since the mech was designed to use that number of Jump Jets.

The same should work for Jenners 1 JJ, 30 M but 80% penalty. 2 JJ 60 M, 60% penalty and so on to the max value.

Mechs that can mount a higher max than their stock loadout of Jump Jets should still get any height bonus like the SDR 5V or VTR-9K, but the penalty for mounting less should be calculated from their stock numbers.

As for weapons, I'd like so see some variety.

someone really should just make a seperate thread for jump jets....

[Nothing Whatsoever]

You did ask for feedback.


But I did forget to add that shake would occur for both going up and then coming back down.

[Varent]

ya true just seems like the whole thread got sidetracked onto jump jets or general rage against jump sniping, where as Im simply proposing a change to make it more unique and solve alot of problems in game at once while changing up the meta.

[ZippySpeedMonkey]

Black Templar, on 16 December 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

check this video out. ignore the "improved JJ" part for now.



this is what i imagined.
increased jump-height.
fast launch, long exposure.
jumping generates heat.
no refill while midair.
landing stops any momentum.
after the landing there is a two-three second cooldown phase before the fuel recharges (slowly).

One thing I like in this is the size of the targeting reticule. If weapons were made to hit randomly somewhere within this, pinpoint would be far less of a pain then it currently is in the game...

Another way to deal with poptarting is to make the current (always centered) reticule drift randomly further off center the longer the jumpjets are engaged...and no, it should not return to center upon cut off...

[Murzao]

How to change the meta? Simple.................FIX SRM's (and weight balancing).

Just a few hours ago I ran up on a highlander poptart on Alpine (yup) in my 3ASRM6 Centurion (yes some people still play those) and smacked him around from point blank range with 2 others on my back. Lance was with me so we mopped em all up easy without a loss and the enemy was far heavier. I pretty much soloed the poptart while the others finished his buddies and I had 300 damage just from wrecking said Highlander. Then I died from charging the rest of their team:)

But SRM's are definitely borked atm.

Edited by Murzao, 16 December 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Reitrix, on 16 December 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Except that would ruin the use of Jump jets on pretty much every 'Mech ever that WASN'T using them to poptart.

Like running past that K2 on my 3D and jump twisting to fire downwards at him because he cant shoot up very far.
Your 'solution' would relegate JJs to going over small obstacles and thats it.

Except Jump Jets are meant as a agility amplifier not a combat amplifier. Though I don't care one way or the other Pop Tarting should never have started in MechWarrior as it is not a wide spread Canon Mechanic. I mean if we wanna use what is written in a novel we could have 'Mechs able to play football, baseball and able to do handstands and cartwheels.

Not being able to Pop tart will not kill the Light Mech. That is just melodrama. If it doesn't go away I can handle it if it does I can handle it.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Nerf Warriors unite!

[New Day]

nemesis271989, on 16 December 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

I propose opposite system
6 Jump Jets - 20-25% screen shake on the way up and down ​can't fire any weapon
5 Jump Jets - 20-25% screen shake on the way up and down ​can't fire any weapon
4 Jump Jets - 20-25% screen shake on the way up and down ​can't fire any weapon
3 Jump Jets - 20-25% screen shake on the way up and down ​can't fire any weapon
2 Jump Jets - 20-25% screen shake on the way up and down ​can't fire any weapon
1 Jump Jet - 20-25% screen shake on the way up and down ​can't fire any weapon

In real world shooting in air will produce a force that flips your mech upside down and land like a Christmas tree (upside down)

Pop tarding problem solved

lol, go pilot mech IRL then

Also a JJ nerf for all the mechs is not a solution.

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 17 December 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Lykaon]

Xmith, on 16 December 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

I got a better idea. Communicate to your team about the snipers and keep under cover.

Yep I see so many wins achieved by hiding under a rock all match.

[Skyfaller]

Reitrix, on 16 December 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

A better change, i think, is to change ACs and PPCs to be stream weapons rather than direct single shots.

This.

Ballistic weapons would become similar to the AC2 when the macro chain-fire is used (aka the Jager DD firing 6 AC2s in a way that the guns chain fire every 0.2 seconds rather than every 0.5 seconds default chain fire).

Making it so that the max 'bullets' each gun fires per second is equivalent at 10 rounds per second:

AC20 fires 10 rounds each doing 2 damage.
AC10 fires 10 rounds each doing 1 damage.
AC5 fires 10 rounds each doing 0.5 damage.
AC2 fires 10 rounds each doing 0.something damage.

This will make their mode of fire not be able to deliver pinpoint damage but rather matches lasers in their 'streaming' damage. It also matches TT closely since the damage hit locations are as 'random' as possible (just like lasers in a way).

PPCs should be modified to fire a stream of particles (aka , a beam) that lasts 0.5 seconds and has an additional effect of slowing down a mech (think of it as the electric shock hampering the engine) by 25% speed.

Gauss could be changed to remain a pinpoint damage weapon but an additional layer of complexity added to it: The weapon needs to be 'charged' before firing.

Every 0.1 seconds the button is held down the Gauss 'charges' the round to travel 100m.

If you just tap the fire button, the weapon will only do damage out to 100m. If you hold it for 1 second it will do its damage out to 1km, etc.

This allows it to be a TRUE sniper weapon...with almost unlimited range BUT it is extremely hard to use as a sniper weapon because you need to be still, aimed, charged and hit something far away that is moving under these conditions.

If you hold button down for more than 3 seconds the weapon 'resets' and generates a lot of heat.

Finally, the gauss rifle would slow down the speed of the arms or torso by 50% when charged/charging.

Jump jets make all the above, except gauss, be just like using lasers..aka no pinpoint damage.

Using a gauss with jumpjets becomes almost futile since most jumping requires at least 2 seconds of jet to clear obstacles... the slowed down arm/torso twist plus jet shake makes it very hard to aim.

Will some jump-'snipe' with it still? Yes..but at near point blank range where they can stop jet thrust, aim and click-fire with it. However that is nowhere near as harmful to the game as the current jet sniping.

[Damocles69]

Or, ya know, make it so a 90 ton mech and a 70 ton require more than one JJ to be able to pop tart. If a highlander need to mount 3-4 jjs at 2 tons than that is 6-8 less tons of weapons ands ammo it can carry. They need to nerf upward thrust will low numbers off jjs for larger mechs.

[LordBraxton]

I think jump jets need to have a hell of a lot more thrust, and a slower recharge

jumping should be a decision, not a constant behavior

thats about it