109 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

Khorek, on 17 December 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

The 5% that are so vocal will not harm our game. Keep doing what you're doing.

Keep doing things to bleed players while claiming new user retention goes up?

Ignoring forum whining is something I'm usually OK with, but it requires the people developing the game understand their own game before that becomes applicable. It's pretty clear they don't.

The Living Legends team yet again is another good example: Tons of people whining about legging and calling fine weapons OP there, and the dev team's response was pretty much "lol, nope." And it worked because they truly understood the game, and why those things were like they were. What they did not do was make grand claims about systems they had not begun working on yet, followed by adding systems that 90% of thousands of users did not want. That right there, is the difference.

PS: Do you also endorse the idea of Paul playing Tetris while Russ unveils MS Paints about a Community Warfare system they had not even started yet, telling everyone at launch it's due in 3 months despite this being impossible? Or would telling them this was a terrible idea = mentally weak in your eyes?

Edited by Victor Morson, 30 December 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[mekabuser]

the ongoing tragedy is the the core combat imo is fine. I could deal with assault, in my elo, the capwarrior nonsense was largely moot. I never played flavor of the week, so all those metas were irrelevant<except the ravens and streaks, that was just a pita>

Ive lost interest, but ive got about 15 drops of skirmish, and MOST have been just excellent.. I had 3 straight skirmish drops on rc and the new spawns etc.. it was great.
but imo, they were great despite the devs. IOW, its our pilots who make our battles great. Even though for me skirmish is a step in the right direction, ive reached a point where I am pulled to other games because no matter what, the match is over in 15 minutes. Maybe if there was a multidrop something that could drag on an hour and have some meaning< any meaning> Id be more inclined to fire the game up ..
as of now, I am enjoying warframe.
Unless Starcitizen is an absolute mess<kinda doubt it> , that game will more than likely suck me right in.

Its important to note, i probably played more MWLL than i would have if it were not for the devs of mwll. I played MWLL because i wanted to support the MWLL devs vision and reward their hardwork with a body in their servers.
There are many who feel the same way about SC.. I kinda feel that way about warframe.. From what ive seen, theres a fair amount of admiration for that game and what they are trying to do.. IMO, its a far, far more polished game than mwo. and they still are
b e t a.

[Riptor]

Quote

[color=#959595]the ongoing tragedy is the the core combat imo is fine[/color]

The thing thought is that they didnt came up with it. That was the MW2 team and ever since then it hasnt changed much.

The additions PGI made thought... like ghostheat or screen shaking while jumping just to sell people a module against it...

Yeah... didnt really add much fun to the game now did it?

Edited by Riptor, 30 December 2013 - 10:27 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Riptor, on 30 December 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Yeah... didnt really add much fun to the game now did it?

For me it did, as it corrected flaws dev teams since MW2 were making.

[Riptor]

It would be more fun if it made sense and didnt felt unnecesarily abritrary and gimped some of the STOCK builds even further.

[The Unknown Pilot]

Heffay, on 19 December 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Undefendable?

You're declaring victory by defining the terms of the debate?

Well give him credit, he is after all, caught in a bottleneck on an island, and is clearly not the target audience....not certain where I heard those terms before.

[Oppresor]

I welcome the Clan forces and as a member of the Inner Sphere promise to do all I can to take them out.

For House Davion

[Phantom411 ScorpS]

scgt1, on 19 December 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Remember the customer is always right!

You're right, especially when that customer is spending his/her hard earned money!

[Heffay]

phantom411, on 01 January 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

You're right, especially when that customer is spending his/her hard earned money!

Which customer? Me, or the guy saying the exact opposite of me?

[Wraithlord77]

As someone who has been part of a few beta tests i know things Never realy go as planed and as for CW and our laughable MM i seen how hard it was for WOT to get that right ( and its still not perfict) plus they are still tweeking their UI , these things take time and even when out will need ongoing work to get right.
Now as for these Clan Packs /Mechs, i am insulted that you expect me /us to pay out THAT MUCH for a pack ,and when community gave out you pannic and "offer" us an even more overpriced unballanced "a le carte" menue ,55 bucks for what ever chassie you want , so everyone who gets it will only get the biggest , why get anything smaller, yea well thought out guys .
When i log into game now and see that frackin Clan invasion logo screen it just makes me feel like ive been mugged , slaped in the face ,kicked in the teeth and now the brasen gimp is back looking for more.The fun is going from this game little by little ,strongly thinking of putting this game down foe good

[Heffay]

Wraithlord77, on 02 January 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Now as for these Clan Packs /Mechs, i am insulted that you expect me /us to pay out THAT MUCH for a pack

"Expect"?

I think you're confused. They are offering a range of packages for a range of budgets, and are letting you choose how much you want to spend your money, if at all. Because it's still free to play, so if you choose you can play without spending a single penny.

[Jetfire]

Heffay, on 02 January 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

"Expect"?

I think you're confused. They are offering a range of packages for a range of budgets, and are letting you choose how much you want to spend your money, if at all. Because it's still free to play, so if you choose you can play without spending a single penny.

While this is true, the general concept of charging more than a full fledged AAA title for a pack of mechs is questionable at best. I might find myself even buying a gold mech pack if they can deliver what they promised out to May, but for a F2P title it seems like making content access via cash to cost more than $150-300 a year for the non-cosmetic output is asking a lot. If you compared the costs of buying all the premium mechs and the mech packs and running premium it is startling how much money it costs compared to titles which deliver far more content. PGI seems to be afraid that they cannot actually make a micro transaction system work with their player base, which is honestly likely to be true, but long term this will need to change.

As for comparisons to Star Citzen, you are talking about a Crowdfunded title in pre-aloha development with regular communication versus a launched title which went live without many of the marketed features including UI 2.0 and the CW metagame. You are comparing a game where nothing non-cosmetic will not be available in the full game which will retail for less than $100 and is currently available for much less, to a game that offers a huge grind to any content past the cadet bonus and requires cash for hero mechs which while not P2W are not simply cosmetic. Simply put, the games need to be held to different standards as they are very different, unfortunately it just makes PGI look worse. They would be in much less hot water with their customer base if they were more open with the community and if they had kept the game in Open Beta until we had some of the launch features rather than none. A minimum viable engine is not really a minimum viable game.

I mean I am glad to see PGI secured the rights long enough to ensure they can commit thier funds to the game, but it seems to have required a year setback while they decided if this was going to be a cash out or a long term commitment. It is always a shame to see liscensing have such a poor impact on the IP, but that is microsoft for you.

Edited by Jetfire, 02 January 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Heffay, on 02 January 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

Which customer? Me, or the guy saying the exact opposite of me?

This can't be stated enough.

[Thorn Hallis]

Jetfire, on 02 January 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

pre-aloha development

Nice one!

[Lord de Seis]

Riptor, on 19 December 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Yes.. FIRST

Not about 3 to 6 times like PGI did.

Nor did they let decembre come and pass and didnt even mention that they had to push the module back because it wasnt ready for prime time, unlike PGI that anounced a date.. and the date came and went and they didnt lost a single word as to why. Nor did they ever aknowledged this when they came out to anounce the next completly unrealistic deadline.

Furthermore the Star citizen Devs did not lie to their customers. The module is there.. but with how much attention the game has garnered and how much backlash the hangar module has gotten i think its the right decision to polish the thing before releasing it.

Again, I atleast dont take offense to pushback when im explained and shown why it was pushed back. PGI however never had the intention to keep a single deadline from the beginning of open beta to release. Why do i know this? Because during release.. during their little presentation it became painfully obvious that pre production of CW hadnt even begun until that point. So all the dates that where named before launch? Lies. They knew they couldnt keep these dates from the beginning because they had at no point started work on CW

You cant just simply tell me that they didnt knew they wouldnt be able to make the 90 days after open beta deadline when they didnt even had a textfile with the concept done.

Had they played it straight from the beginning there sure would have been disent amongst the user base, but that would have been it. Not the complete rage clusertf... we have now.Thats how games development works.. all games get pushed back one way or another.

But lying to your user base so that they buy the next Mech package? Giving the phoenix mechs loyality point boost when you dont even know what these loyality points do as the very one who created that concept... that just takes the cake.

Your arguments are spot on in this thread.

[Rizzwind]

They still have nothing showing they have started working on CW. For all we know now it's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It was never going to be there in the first place.

[Xtrekker]

I've worked for good developers and I've worked for bad developers, and all have to deal with missed deadlines and unsatisfied customers. However, working under a bad developer was particularly stressful because they used the same tactics as are used here: over-promise, under-deliver, lie about assets and resources, lie about progress, avoid conflict with non-communication, and when all else fails, ditch the customer because hell, you don't need them anyway and they aren't the type of customer you really want, and by losing them you really are taking the company to a new level in the right direction.

BS smells the same wherever you go. I feel for the programmers who have to work in this stinking cloud of deceit, because the pressure is on them to perpetuate it. I hope PGI management gets its act together at some point.

[MischiefSC]

Heffay, on 19 December 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

[/size]

They said the dogfighting module was going to be released in December no matter what. According to the yardstick you measure PGI by, that was a lie.

I guess it was their position at the time...

We had the option to ask them to release it, when he asked the community we all said we wanted to wait and use the improved netcode.

Crazy, isn't it. We had the following options:

1. Single-player dogfighting module. Would delay the release of full MP DFM by a couple of months.

2. Multiplayer DFM with stock CryEngine netcode. Would delay the release of full MP DFM by a month or two.

3. Multiplayer DFM delayed but with improved netcode and speed the final release of the game.

The response was overwhelmingly in support of option 3.

That's why he's sitting on $35 million and growing with a pre-alpha product. He's absolutely honest and up front with the state of the game, what the options are and what the relative costs are, then gauges the feedback from the community. While the final call was always CRs he floated the options to the player community, got their feedback and went forward based on it.

Many of the games development directions are, in fact, based off player feedback and polls. What sort of systems we want, what ship concepts we want. There's currently a contest for players to design a ship that will then be sold in game. The player who designs it gets a cash reward.

I'm the first to say comparing Star Citizen and MW:O, or any other game out now for that matter, is unreasonable. However it's also a bit silly to pretend that CR and CIG have ever done anything even remotely as.... ill considered we'll call it.... as PGI does regularly. All the numbers for SC (money, players, subscriptions, etc) are charted on the front page. Updates from the devs on exactly what they're working on the existing progress comes out almost constantly. CR has never lied, never pulled 'that was our position at the time' pivot aside from ADDING concepts and content while staying to the original timeline.

DFM got pushed back 30 or 60 days because it's going to include about double the ships and a custom-built netcode, which the original timeline did not. The delay wasn't a surprise nor the reasoning nor the state or position of the game because there was always open and honest communication. What we did NOT get was a promise of release in December, then December arrives and.... silence, all dev stop posting anything anywhere for a month, then start up again ignoring any reference to the DFM.

Don't be that guy Heffay. You want to defend PGI, that's fine. Laudable even, I'm all for standing up for things you believe in. Trying to misrepresent another developer because they're not making the same mistakes is pretty disingenuous though and damages your credibility. When Star Citizen went from being a $4 million dollar game to a $40 million dollar game and went from a hopeful 100,000 backers to 350,000 backers it was made clear that the games scale would rise to suit.

Want to know what state SC is in? On the 'ask a dev' forum you'll see 3 different devs who've responded on 9 topics in the last 3 hours. That happens consistently every single day - even often on the weekends. That doesn't happen here, or on most games for that matter. Trying to pretend that CIGs handling of the development of their game or interactions with their community are anything like PGIs isn't just disingenuous but bordering on dishonest.

[Rizzwind]

^ this and why I just dropped another 115.00 into that game. Would be better to spend it here but 2 many missed deadlines and no news on CW or U.I 2.0 in almost a month. Not even another test sever run. Why dump the time into building a test sever just to leave it empty.

Edited by Rizzwind, 03 January 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[Haakon Valravn]

Chain Fire, on 29 December 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Remember if Roberts was handling the Mechwarrior IP it would still be all sunshine and roses,
because you wouldn't be playing the game yet.

But you'd still be able to download MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries for free. The MekTek team would still be turning out 'Mechs for it. And you'd still be able to download MechWarrior: Living Legends.