28 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

Just scooped up a couple of neat kills in it, the last lance fought me at the same time and I survived with a cherry red paper doll. The 600 damage doesn't seem high till you take into account that I was using 2 PPCs and an AC5. All of that damage landed where it hurt! Good feels!

[zztophat]

That spider lance was obnoxious.

[Escef]

Strangely, I've found the 5M to be the worst of the Shadowhawks. Other than haveing the ability to mount 2 more jump jets, it just doesn't do anything that the other 2 SHDs don't do as well or better.

[FupDup]

Escef, on 01 January 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Strangely, I've found the 5M to be the worst of the Shadowhawks. Other than haveing the ability to mount 2 more jump jets, it just doesn't do anything that the other 2 SHDs don't do as well or better.

It can carry 2 energy weapons (the 2H can only hold 1).

[Escef]

FupDup, on 01 January 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

It can carry 2 energy weapons (the 2H can only hold 1).

So can the 2D2.

[FupDup]

Escef, on 01 January 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

So can the 2D2.

You said the 5M can't do anything the other Shads can't, I said that it can do something that the 2H can't. I never said the 5M was good per se...the 2D2 is pretty much the best variant of the bunch without any dispute.

[Escef]

FupDup, on 01 January 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

You said the 5M can't do anything the other Shads can't, I said that it can do something that the 2H can't. I never said the 5M was good per se...the 2D2 is pretty much the best variant of the bunch without any dispute.

Perhaps I should have said, "one of the other," instead, it would have made my meaning more clear. There is no real reason to use the 5M over the 2H or 2D2.

[FupDup]

Escef, on 01 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Perhaps I should have said, "one of the other," instead, it would have made my meaning more clear. There is no real reason to use the 5M over the 2H or 2D2.

Now we're back to square one. The 2H only gets 1 energy hardpoint, so yes the 5M does have a situational advantage over the 2H (you can use 2 ML or 2 LL loadouts). Of course, the 2D2 is better at dual-wielding lasers than both of them, but that's besides the point. I dunno, I guess it also lets you use 2 ballistics and 2 energy at the same time (2D2 is just 1 ballistic, although usually that's all you need...).


IMO, the 2H is the lemon variant of the bunch (although, by virtue of being a Shadow Hawk, is still better than most other mediums). Although, this might be because I tend to gear my Shads like all-rounders (UAC/5 or AC/10, some SSRMs, and some lasers, with an XL300) rather than ERPPC + AC/20 poptarts or 3AC/2 screen shakers like most other people seem to.

Edited by FupDup, 01 January 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[RickySpanish]

The advantage the 5M has with its 2 energy hardpoint placement is that since they're in the same arm, they naturally converge well. Of course, losing the arm is pretty catastrophic when it's got the majority of your firepower on it. The main reason I seem to be preferring the 5M these days is that the extra jump jet thrust helps greatly with clearing obstacles immediately after maneuvering without having to wait for the jets to recharge for as long. With the 2H I can get away with a single jet for pop tarting, but if I'm flanked that jet isn't going to help me to get to safety.

[zztophat]

Escef, on 01 January 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Strangely, I've found the 5M to be the worst of the Shadowhawks. Other than haveing the ability to mount 2 more jump jets, it just doesn't do anything that the other 2 SHDs don't do as well or better.

And yet I still feel that the weakest of the 'shawks is still stronger than the other mediums.

[Escef]

zztophat, on 01 January 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

And yet I still feel that the weakest of the 'shawks is still stronger than the other mediums.

You're probably right on that.

[Ruccus]

zztophat, on 01 January 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

And yet I still feel that the weakest of the 'shawks is still stronger than the other mediums.

I have the Shadowhawks from the Phoenix package and I've run a Blackjack BJ-1 for a long time, and I don't find my BJ-1 to be any less effective than my Shadowhawks. It has less armour but I find it has just as much if not more firepower than my Shadowhawk setups, and if I can gain a height advantage I find having the majority of the weaponry in the arms means I can still do a lot of damage when faced with extreme height differences.

The Blackjack is also smaller than the Shadowhawk and I find it's easier to side-torso-kill a Shadowhawk running an XL engine than a Blackjack running an XL engine (I usually get center-cored in my BJ-1). I'm not saying the Blackjack is any better than the Shadowhawk, but I find it's just as dangerous in most situations.

[zztophat]

Ruccus, on 01 January 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

I have the Shadowhawks from the Phoenix package and I've run a Blackjack BJ-1 for a long time, and I don't find my BJ-1 to be any less effective than my Shadowhawks. It has less armour but I find it has just as much if not more firepower than my Shadowhawk setups, and if I can gain a height advantage I find having the majority of the weaponry in the arms means I can still do a lot of damage when faced with extreme height differences.

The Blackjack is also smaller than the Shadowhawk and I find it's easier to side-torso-kill a Shadowhawk running an XL engine than a Blackjack running an XL engine (I usually get center-cored in my BJ-1). I'm not saying the Blackjack is any better than the Shadowhawk, but I find it's just as dangerous in most situations.

And yet I've never lost a head to head fight with a BJ in a shawk, In fact I charge lone BJs directly and win because I have more armor, I'm faster and have more firepower.

10 tons is a massive difference, so massive comparing a BJ to a 'shawk isn't even fair for the BJ.

If RickySpanish had been running a BJ in that game he mentioned, he would have died. I was there, I saw the damage he took, the 56 CT armor of a Bj would have folded before he was even the last mech alive, pair that with the fact that he was carrying an AC5 and 2 PPCs (a loadout a BJ can only dream of) and got the last 2 kills with no AC ammo left... you get the idea.

Edited by zztophat, 01 January 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Escef]

zztophat, on 01 January 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

the fact that he was carrying an AC5 and 2 PPCs (a loadout a BJ can only dream of) and got the last 2 kills with no AC ammo left... you get the idea.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...021c31958a02fa3

It can be done. I don't recommend it (heat and ammo issues) but it can be done.

[sC4r]

yeah shawk is awesome medium mech
and just as ricky i also like the 5m most because of its balanced hardpoints and the fact that lasers are on ONE arm also i kinda fell in love with it as it comes pretty much fully equiped from the start (yea its 4M more expensive but take a look at this it starts with dhs and endo thats 2M that you will invest into any valid sh build anyways and getting that xl for a bit less than 2M is pretty nice though i swapped it for different engine)

compared to the other 2 2h has too many balistics and 2d2 has too many missiles which wouldnt be normally bad but i dont like streaks that much and normal srms are just horrible (well until they get hit detection fix... again)

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Escef, on 01 January 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

So can the 2D2.

If you fail to see the advantage the 5M has over the 2D2 in regards to its energy points, then you're a novice in the mechlab.

The 5M makes for the best sniper and JumpSniper (even ignoring the additional jets it can have) for the fact it has significantly better convergence, and most importantly you gain an additional ton over the 2D2 with similar builds since you don't need to armor the Left Arm. One ton is enough to make or break MANY builds in the mechlab.

[NRP]

I like the 5M variant best also, mainly for the reasons already mentioned (2 energy on one arm, better convergence, one ballistic is enough, etc).

I wish it was the Prime variant.

[Escef]

mwhighlander, on 01 January 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

If you fail to see the advantage the 5M has over the 2D2 in regards to its energy points, then you're a novice in the mechlab.

YOu mean that the weapons of the 5M are both on the right arm? Swell. Advantage and diadvantage all at once. And you really, really need to check your attitude at the door.

[RickySpanish]

I never considered removing armour from the 5Ms shield arm, an extra ton of ammo or switching the ac5 to a uac5 without losing speed... A tantalizing prospect!

The energy hardpoint placement is interesting - on one hand both in one arm is great for sniping. But if you run a standard with say an AC20 and 2 mlas, now your shield torso will cost you your backup weapons should it blow. I do enjoy how well the Shadowhawk turned out, I used to hate the 5M afterall. The variants are so balanced and... Exciting!

Edited by RickySpanish, 01 January 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

mwhighlander, on 01 January 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

If you fail to see the advantage the 5M has over the 2D2 in regards to its energy points, then you're a novice in the mechlab.

The 5M makes for the best sniper and JumpSniper (even ignoring the additional jets it can have) for the fact it has significantly better convergence, and most importantly you gain an additional ton over the 2D2 with similar builds since you don't need to armor the Left Arm. One ton is enough to make or break MANY builds in the mechlab.

the 5M is the better jump sniper.

But for those of us who actually like to fight, the 2D2 is superior. Convergence is hardly an issue for non snipers (and my builds run Mediums anyhow on the 2D2, hardly pro choice for sniping). My 2d2 is an all purpose support mech, able to fight mechs 30 tons heavier to a stand still, and still capable of chasing the squirrels off the big guys. my UAC, 2 mediums, and 4 SSRM have served me well, and I still run a 4 to 1 KDr in this build. I do love my 5M though, but in my case I use it more as a Medium range sniper, a super-Enforcer, with 2 large lasers and an ac10. Only have a 2.78 KDr in it, but I regularly score 600-800 damage if I don't do something stupid (or my team doesn't do something stupid, for me)

Different builds for different roles. And since I seldom snipe, in general, the 2D2's hardpoints, and inability to be easily disarmed,serve me far better, even with heavy energy.

Escef, on 01 January 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

YOu mean that the weapons of the 5M are both on the right arm? Swell. Advantage and diadvantage all at once. And you really, really need to check your attitude at the door.

hate to start a flame war, but I agree. MW has a point, at least for playstyles that stick religiously to the meta, but the delivery was kinda... asinine.