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Lost Opportunities: The Clans


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#141 xhrit

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostNekki Basara, on 22 December 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

GW don't have a forum because their business model engenders a toxic community deliberately to encourage userbase churn and to undercut the secondary market. Given that I published some work for Mordhiem under this username see below via Fanatic you can back that up as an "insider" statement if you feel like being an internet detective.


Actually I was one of the reason GW's forums shut down.

I made this thing called vassal 40k, so that all the people who posted most on the forums could play official tournament rules 40k against each other over the internet. I put together a volunteer team to host weekly tournaments. It was kinda a big thing, being not only the defacto way to play 40k on the net, but also the go to tool for generating battle reports.

Long story short, I got hit hard with the legalhammer, and I am not allowed to develop or play it anymore. GW ended up changing their rules to disallow any sort of fan made videogames, told everyone they couldn't play tournaments anymore.... then they raised the prices. In the ensuing forum chaos, they closed the forums.

V40k is still pretty popular I hear. According to the vassal engine website, 573 people have logged on to it in the last 24 hours.

Posted Image

I drew all the graphics for the first version of v40k by hand in MS paint, and coded it in java using notepad. True story.

Edited by xhrit, 22 December 2013 - 10:17 PM.


#142 MechFrog1

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:18 PM

We're a little off topic. If you want to shill your mspaint game, make your own thread.

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#143 luxebo

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:18 PM

All I know is that those are some sexy Warhammer 40k pics. Imperial Guards, Tyranids, Space Marines,... Say, not to get off topic, but when will DOW3 be released?

Edit: Wow, 8 full pages.

Edited by luxebo, 22 December 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#144 CarnageINC

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:18 AM

@OP, that would of been epic beyond belief! It truly is a great opportunity missed by PGI, absolutely beautiful dream mint frog. Thanks for sharing :D

#145 smokefield

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:31 AM

damn you op...you made me dream for 5 min. unfuckingbelivable how many good advices are on these forums and no one from pgi listens. amazes me every time i read a good advice.

#146 RedDragon

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:10 AM

View Postxhrit, on 21 December 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:



More like "PGI is fail for not doing an awesome reveal event", but ignoring the fact that doing so would be totally impractical, and would make a lot of people mad.

So in fact your argument is that PGI shouldn't do something cool that (on an educated guess) most of the community would cherish and that doesn't do any harm to anyone except a single lost match (which is compensated by a special item and a cool story to tell your friends). But instead it is better to do as they did, i.e. a monumental cash grab that possibly produced the greatest **** storm this game has ever seen with hundreds of players expressing their disdain and not few who left the game for good?
I may be on an island, but I can't quite follow your logic.

#147 smokefield

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:15 AM

i would love to see the op script coming to life and fighting agains a clan mech, even op'ed. imagine that you could kill one :D

#148 Effectz

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:22 AM

Devs barely play the game they wouldn't exactly be the right people to show off the clans true potential lol.12-0

Wasted marketing opportunity though.

#149 ssm

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:40 AM

When I started playing in Febuary (and timline was still on the table), I actually imagined something similar. Except now I think it would have been a total flop. Within 30 minutes of somebody noticing a tad bigger patch, Clan models parsed from game files would pop all around the place.

Scenarios like this, although cool, rarely play out.

Edited by ssm, 23 December 2013 - 04:40 AM.


#150 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:55 AM

View Postmint frog, on 18 December 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:


May 4th, 2014 7:00PM PST

Furnished with accounts bearing first names and a few with recognizable bloodnames, 12 Clan mechs piloted by PGI employees drop into a random match. Each mech, having been completely modeled, tested, and polished to perfection, is loaded with an absurd amount of armor (4-5x actual numbers) and the loadouts expected for each of the primary config omnimechs.


May 4th, 2014 7:05 PST

MWO forums are flooded with topics calling the devs lazy because they're dropping in games instead of working on CW.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 23 December 2013 - 04:55 AM.


#151 xhrit

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 06:36 AM

Q: Wouldn't it be cool if...
A: Yes, yes it would.

Q: Why don't they?
A: Money.

...

Honestly, this sort of thing would have been better as part of their rollout of epic 12 man PvE raids. Three lances of IS mechs facing off against progressively harder waves of enemy forces - The clan themed raid would consist of 10 waves - starting with squads of elementals and progressing to a star of light clan mechs, and ending with a wave consisting of entirely of Dire Wolfs.

During the course of the raid, voiceover from the clan commander as well as responses from the defending planetary government would tell the invasion's story, which would progress as the waves spawned. The clan raid could be inserted randomly into a PvE map rotation, so players who que for a PvE raid would not know if they were facing for example, "Pirates of the Oberon Confederation", "Civil Disorder", or "Clan Invasion".

Of course, at present time the feasibility of such a scenario is almost nil, as the underlying systems to support such a thing are not currently created, and all development priority should be on CW, and not creating PvE raids, so I am not stressed about not seeing anything like it in-game anytime soon.

Wouldn't it be cool tho?

Edited by xhrit, 23 December 2013 - 07:02 AM.


#152 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:47 AM

On a more serious note: Of course it would have been cool, but it wouldn't be more then fan service. I think it would have given the introduction of Clans into MWO a totally wrong...outlook? If PGI would have done such an epic thing, it would make the Clans look like "the new endgame", "the be all, end all", the "new Level 70 epic loot that makes your Inner Sphere level 60 gear worthless" (I guess you know what I mean), and thats simply not the case. In the end, the Clans are just another 'Mech package, granted one that plays a bit different, but still they only add more 'Mechs to the game. Definatly not worth any epic marketing campaign in my eyes.

#153 Wriath

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:55 AM

View PostThorn Hallis, on 23 December 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:


May 4th, 2014 7:05 PST

MWO forums are flooded with topics calling the devs lazy because they're dropping in games instead of working on CW.

Look, call me a white knighting ********* if you want. but that's a load of {Scrap}. Half the complaints people make are 'do the devs even PLAY the game? in response to stuff like ghost heat... and then you give them **** for playing the game.

#154 Nekki Basara

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:48 AM

View Postxhrit, on 22 December 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:


Actually I was one of the reason GW's forums shut down.

Well done you for making vassal, but you're now arguing with someone who worked for the company you claim to have influenced. The real reason was that it didn't fit into the business model, and they were better served farming veterans off to other websites like Dakkadakka and the various fantasy racial sites. If you've been involved in GW games that long then you'll know exactly how the customer churn is handled there and how veterans are treated in the local stores and the web policy was basically the same as part of a long-term plan to turn it into the online store it is today. I'll grant you that you might have influenced the decision to go ahead with the THQ partnership but the forums had nothing to do with it. See also: FUMBBL. Vassal is still going strong and C&Ds are sent out by the occasional company every now and then but people keep making modules for it.

#155 MechFrog1

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:55 AM

View Postxhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Q: Wouldn't it be cool if...
A: Yes, yes it would.

Q: Why don't they?
A: Money.

...

Honestly, this sort of thing would have been better as part of their rollout of epic 12 man PvE raids. Three lances of IS mechs facing off against progressively harder waves of enemy forces - The clan themed raid would consist of 10 waves - starting with squads of elementals and progressing to a star of light clan mechs, and ending with a wave consisting of entirely of Dire Wolfs.

During the course of the raid, voiceover from the clan commander as well as responses from the defending planetary government would tell the invasion's story, which would progress as the waves spawned. The clan raid could be inserted randomly into a PvE map rotation, so players who que for a PvE raid would not know if they were facing for example, "Pirates of the Oberon Confederation", "Civil Disorder", or "Clan Invasion".

Of course, at present time the feasibility of such a scenario is almost nil, as the underlying systems to support such a thing are not currently created, and all development priority should be on CW, and not creating PvE raids, so I am not stressed about not seeing anything like it in-game anytime soon.

Wouldn't it be cool tho?

If you know anything about the Clans, you'd know that attacking in progressively stronger waves is nonsensical and contrary to everything the Clans believe in.

What's really funny is that you've gotten so distracted that you don't even notice that your idea would take vastly more resources and time than my OP design.

Edited by mint frog, 23 December 2013 - 10:43 AM.


#156 Fut

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:31 AM

View Postmekabuser, on 20 December 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

one other thing.. It still p i sses me off that they crushed mwll. Say what you will about that game, but at least those guys had passion.. and vision..and talent and balls, and for the most part it worked..
I always felt that the primary problem that game had was just the amount of active players.. Anything over 100 players online at any given time would have ensured an epic match.. As it was , there could be 2 active servers, and most of the time it was a decent match, often epic. Many epic games in mwll. Its almost impossible to have epic within 10 minutes.

I t just goes to show you whom you are dealing with when it comes to pgi.. To be threatened by a game that had at that point 50 players online at any given time.. un ... freakin... believable


It ****** me off that people use the word "epic" so god damned much.

View PostAlmond Brown, on 22 December 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

@mint frog

Well stated but inherently flawed as of the 3rd paragraph (stopped there btw, no need to proceed). The result of 12 buffed Clan Mechs, quickly wiping out 12 IS Mechs, would be a Hailstorm of Hate, Vitriol and unbelievable BS, such that the "3rd person" incident would become but a weak foot note in this Forums history.

We know from previous terrifying experiences that you cannot show the "Players" anything that is not the "real" deal as trying to explain that is was just for "FUNNSIES", or a work in progress with changeable #'s is not possible.

So good try sir but you are working with the "wrong audience" in mind.



I really don't think that anybody would mind being utterly destroyed in-game if it was done in the manner of the OP.
To be a part of those first few Clan battles would be an honour for most of the people who've taken the time to download this game.

There's really only two types of people who would ***** and moan about this:
1) Those who find enjoyment in complaining.
2) Those who are so afraid of somebody else being offended by a situation, that they preemptively complain about things in hopes of stopping the situation.

I'm willing to wager though, that the amount of people who would think it is completely awesome would drown out the whines from people 1 & 2 above. Besides, all of the press that a clan intro like this would have received would have brought in tonnes of new players....

Edited by Fut, 23 December 2013 - 10:41 AM.


#157 Ter Ushaka

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:44 AM

View PostNekki Basara, on 23 December 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Well done you for making vassal, but you're now arguing with someone who worked for the company you claim to have influenced.

You're not a game developer maaaan, your opinions aren't valid cause you don't understand the struggle!

#158 luxebo

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:57 AM

View Postxhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Honestly, this sort of thing would have been better as part of their rollout of epic 12 man PvE raids. Three lances of IS mechs facing off against progressively harder waves of enemy forces - The clan themed raid would consist of 10 waves - starting with squads of elementals and progressing to a star of light clan mechs, and ending with a wave consisting of entirely of Dire Wolfs.

During the course of the raid, voiceover from the clan commander as well as responses from the defending planetary government would tell the invasion's story, which would progress as the waves spawned. The clan raid could be inserted randomly into a PvE map rotation, so players who que for a PvE raid would not know if they were facing for example, "Pirates of the Oberon Confederation", "Civil Disorder", or "Clan Invasion".

Of course, at present time the feasibility of such a scenario is almost nil, as the underlying systems to support such a thing are not currently created, and all development priority should be on CW, and not creating PvE raids, so I am not stressed about not seeing anything like it in-game anytime soon.

Wouldn't it be cool tho?


This whole thing would be cool, though we all know that PGI would take forever to create AI...
I technically suggested this earlier, like random pug matches could net you into a 24 IS mechs (both teams) vs more or less Clanners with mechs. The scoreboard will remain the same, and if you kill opposite side mechs then you still get rewards, but if you get defeated by Clanners, then you still lose. So it's strat differing from what's around.

The only disagreement I've with this is the last supposed wave. All Dire Wolves? Then the IS mechs would be having all DDCs and 733Cs cheese. Or all Jenners and 3Ls.

#159 xhrit

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

View Postmint frog, on 23 December 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

If you know anything about the Clans, you'd know that attacking in progressively stronger waves is nonsensical and contrary to everything the Clans believe in.


Basically you are claiming a clan can only participate in one zellbrigen per batchall, which you would know is not true, if you knew anything about the Clans.

Twelve IS mechs would not be the whole planetary defense force. The voice over can talk about how alpha, beta and cappa lances are part of company 2, assigned to fight against the clans on the eastern front, while company 1 and 3 is assigned to take the southern approach. and company 4 is assigned to cover the bridge 10 klicks to the west. During the match the other companys would be destroyed, and the suriving clan mechs would then converge on the survivors, i.e. the player characters.

Example : "I will take Luthien with four combined-arms Galaxies," Those Galaxies spilt off into stars and lances and can operate over the whole planet. The players are not the only defenders - they are just the last defenders, after all other IS mechs have been destroyed, and all the clan mechs are regrouping for one last push to drive the remaining IS mechs out, sort of like what happened at luthien.

"The Smoke Jaguar's probes against the Combine lines had bogged down. In an attempt to break through, the elite Trinary Alpha of the First Jaguar Guards struck the centre of the 1st Sword of Light's position, however, the Kuritan line held for almost an hour against this assault. As reinforcements of the Otomo and the 2nd Legion of Vega arrived they began forcing the Clans back. This counter attack was in turn broken by the arrival of Clan reinforcements including the 5th Jaguar Regulars and Nova Cat clusters, supported by air strikes. The Combine defenders started to collapse and retreat."

View Postmint frog, on 23 December 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

What's really funny is that you've gotten so distracted that you don't even notice that your idea would take vastly more resources and time than my OP design.


No, you are wrong. This was exactly the point I was trying to make. It is easy to think up something better then what we see in front of us. It is hard to actually implement it though.

At least now you acknowledge your design would take time and resources to create, time and resources which would be better served creating systems to that add long term gameplay, like CW, instead of wasting development resources creating one time use throwaway systems that do nothing except create marketing hype.

View PostNekki Basara, on 23 December 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Well done you for making vassal, but you're now arguing with someone who worked for the company you claim to have influenced. The real reason was that it didn't fit into the business model, and they were better served farming veterans off to other websites like Dakkadakka and the various fantasy racial sites.


Actually I do know, since my friend McCragge ran the Heart Of the Heresy, the official unofficial Necromunda forum, as there was no official GW necromunda forum until Specialist games re-released the game as part of their living rulebook series.

The point is thier logic hold true to any company - if the complaints become overpowering, and it costs too much effort for mods to keep the forums in check - then close them down and crowsource them out to fans.

View PostNekki Basara, on 23 December 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

If you've been involved in GW games that long then you'll know exactly how the customer churn is handled there and how veterans are treated in the local stores and the web policy was basically the same as part of a long-term plan to turn it into the online store it is today. I'll grant you that you might have influenced the decision to go ahead with the THQ partnership but the forums had nothing to do with it.


Maybe you can find my last post on the forums - it was made about a month before they closed down.

In it, I said more or less everyone calm down, that GW knows there is demand from the the fans for a real 40k videgame with real 40k rules, and they sooner or later will do something about it to please us.

Andy Chambers, author of Warhammer 40k 3rd edition, replied to my thread saying how he was amazed at how the community came togeather to create something wonderful, and that he was going to make it his personal goal to deliver a digital version of warhammer 40k to the fans.

A month later, Games Workshop closed their forums, and Andy Chambers left the company.

A lot of us followed him to Mongoose Games, and the Starship Troopers Miniatures game, but that was run into the ground by the publishers via a series of missed deadlines and broken promises (i.e. : the fourth), so he quit Mongoose and started a project called "Redstar", which consisted of some teasers images and a web forum which he and his wife moderated.

Shortly after that, he was hired by Blizzard to lead development on Starcraft II, and no one on the Redstar forums ever heard from him again.

Edited by xhrit, 23 December 2013 - 01:57 PM.


#160 GODzillaGSPB

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

The new "A la Carte" option is hilariously stupid. Let's work our way from bottom to top:

1) I can take the Kit Fox for either 55$ (A la Carte) or the pack for 30$

2) I can take the Kit Fox and Nova for 100$ (A la Carte) or the pack for 60$. When I just want the Nova I save 5$ while losing the Kit Fox, a badge and a title.

3.) I can take the Kit Fox, Nova and Summoner for 135$ (A la Carte) or the pack for 90$. If I just want the Summoner I save 35$ but lose the Kit Fox, Nova, 30 days of premium, the badge and the title.

...

And so on. You can see that in the lower tiers this "A la Cart" option is a huge fail from PGI. The Kit Fox shouldn't even be available there, the pack is most likely always cheeper unless you buy 6 mechs via the "A la Cart" option which drops the price per mech to 30$. When you add more, you never really save money in comparison to most packs. And even if you buy higher tier single Clan mechs, you may save money, but lose considerable amount of content.

I dunno if this is hilarious, shameful, stupid or just greedy but somewhere along these lines for sure! B)


.

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 23 December 2013 - 02:38 PM.






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