33 replies to this topic

[Isaacus]

Hey guys, if fairly new to the game (MWO), however i have played the earlier mech warriors (primarily vengence). With the c-bills from my cadet bonus i bought a HBK-4P and a QKD-5K, looking back on that i think that they were both a mistake. I hardly ever use the Hunchback and I just can't make ends meet with the quickdraw. I was wondering if you guys have any good builds for either of these mechs. I'd be willing to sell the Hunchback if necessary.

This is my current Quickdraw build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...634379a3d9d1aae

Thanks for the support!

[Kai Harper]

The Hunchback is a great mech, but it takes a bit of refitting and practice to really get the most out of it - and eliting helps *immensely*, but that's the same with all mechs. I'd think that keeping both of those would be a good move - just to get some practice in both torso twisting, and finding fire groups that you feel have acceptable heat generation. I can't think of a better mech than the 4P for people to learn that in.

Personally, I run my 4P super stock. HBK-4P
I can't really talk about the QKD though, since I don't own one, but they seem to be fairly uncommon in the games I've been in.

Edited by Kai Harper, 19 December 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[N a p e s]

Quickdraws require the use of speed and maneuvrability. That means, big XL engine and a few JJs to keep you mobile. Its not a competitively good mech, but they can be pretty fun and effective. I'd recommend something like the following build for the Quickdraw. Do most of your fighting with the dual large lasers and throw in the 4 mediums when you need an extra burst of damage.

QKD-5K

You can take the same build and reduce the heat efficiency to increase the engine all the way up to an XL350. That will get you up to 104 kph with speed tweak.

[Roughneck45]

Pulse lasers are not worth their weight, and LRMs are only good if they are boated.

QD's need to be fast energy boats but you must have some reach with your weapons.
You can do Laser builds like this one.
QKD-5K
(Replace LL's with ER's if you are confident you can handle the heat, can also stack them in a side torso to snipe off of corners.)

Stacking large lasers is always effective.You can run PPC's in place of the large lasers as well, but they can get hot with 3-4 medium lasers. 2 ER PPCs alone with a lot of jump jets and speed can be a very fun build.

IMO, there is only one 4P build.
HBK-4P
You could fit another Mlas on the hunch but it would get too hot and produce ghost heat. Just group the head laser with the hunch and have the arms in their own group.

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 December 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[Kai Harper]

Roughneck45, on 19 December 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Pulse lasers are not worth their weight, and LRMs are only good if they are boated.

QD's need to be fast energy boats.
You can do Laser builds like this one.
QKD-5K
(Replace LL's with ER's if you are confident you can handle the heat, can also stack them in a side torso to snipe off of corners.)

Can run PPC's in place of the large lasers as well, but they can get hot with 3-4 medium lasers. 2 ER PPCs alone with a lot of jump jets and speed can be a very fun build.

IMO, there is only one 4P build.
HBK-4P
You could fit another Mlas on the hunch but it would get too hot and produce ghost heat. Just group the head laser with the hunch and have the arms in their own group.

I pilot my Hunchie quite a bit, and I've found that personally I prefer grouping the hunch in one "hot" group, and grouping the arms and head in a chainfire "cool" group - you can dissipate heat by having those 3 in a group like that, but it does take awhile in any case. Just takes a bit of fire discipline is all.

[Roughneck45]

Kai Harper, on 19 December 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

I pilot my Hunchie quite a bit, and I've found that personally I prefer grouping the hunch in one "hot" group, and grouping the arms and head in a chainfire "cool" group - you can dissipate heat by having those 3 in a group like that, but it does take awhile in any case. Just takes a bit of fire discipline is all.

Yeah, that can help with your heat generation while having a little more firepower.

I just prefer having the grouped arm laser alpha damage without worrying about my head laser going off. I like the extra heatsink in place of the medium laser as well, bringing it from 33% to 39% heat efficiency, which is quite noticeable in game.

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 December 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[Kai Harper]

Roughneck45, on 19 December 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Yeah, that can help with your heat generation while having a little more firepower.

I just prefer having the grouped arm laser alpha damage without worrying about my head laser going off. I like the extra heatsink in place of the medium laser as well, bringing it from 33% to 39% heat efficiency, which is quite noticeable in game.

Yeah, that's fair enough. I used to run STD 260, MLx6, MPLx1, 18DHS, but I switched it up when I found out I could run a bigger engine - and that speed helps. =) I know a lot of people love the SL 4P, too, but I don't like having the knife fighting feel on a big mech.

[Sigurd Wolf]

a great starter medium (now that its available) is the Shadowhawk, if you're going to sell your hunchback, buy a Shadowhawk, its a really good medium and when you max it out you will have a mech which can handle any role.

[Tesunie]

This is something close to what I run (don't have MWO up to see exacts). Change it as you wish.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ec3939400e786cd

The trick you need to keep in mind with my loadout is that you can and will run hot if you only alpha everything. I split up my weapons into two groups, large lasers and med lasers. When I am at range, use Large Lasers. When they close in, bounce between large and med laser groups. As you get too hot, start to use only the Large or Med lasers till you cool.
Jump is to help with hills and turning.

I'd like to mention this is not a brawler build, but is more of a strike build. Use your speed to duck behind cover, and the jump can make you attack from unexpected areas. Use your range when you can.

Of course, things can be altered to fit personal style, such as having a small LRM system, which can help you provide damage ans support no mater where you are on the field. Or you can drop the JJ and maybe a sink to fit an AMS and 1 ton ammo for it. Engine can also be shrank for an AMS system with a Heat Sink removed.

As this alternative provides as an example: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cc478b40687e72f

I shrank the engine a few steps and added AMS and a second JJ. Alter as needed for personal preference. I have found the Quickdraw to be very XL friendly, as well as ammo can be fairly safely stored in the side torsos. I hope I have enough experience to say this personally, as since individual mech stats, the Quickdraw is my most ran mech. (Can't say about all time for me, as I played before individual stats were kept.)

[Tesunie]

Roughneck45, on 19 December 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

... and LRMs are only good if they are boated.

I'd have to disagree with this statement. Some of my best and most effective builds have only a single LRM10 on them, namely a Battlemaster and a Thunderbolt that I can recall off the top of my head. Can be effective with larger mechs that are a little slow. Provides some reach and support while one is out of position trying to get into line of sight. It can be very effective depending upon how one uses it. Usually works best on large mechs with lots of weight to throw around.

LRMs are very utility, and have many uses in the game. To assign them only one role (boat) is really reducing their many capabilities to only one small role.

[Menson]

QKD's were my first purchase with my cadet bonus. I like their fast and hard / in and out play style. Unfortunately for you, you've divided your cadet bonus into 2 mechs and I'm afraid you've gotten less then ideal for both. Instead of tricking out one, you may have gotten 2nd fiddle with both. Selling one or both of these (for a SHD if anything) is always an option. I see you've put FF on your QKD. FF is worthless on anything that is heavier then 40 tons. It's taking away worthwhile critical slots that you need for more DHS and weapons. Now you'll have to pay to take it off =(

Here's what I run on my 5k: QKD-5K 6ML SRM6 ES + AMS

At least these two mechs have a very close play style. You're the knife in the back while everyone else fights. If you notice people shooting at you, use your mobility to get to cover until they forget about you so you can get into a better position. A lot of people are recommending putting Large Lasers in the arms. Arm mounted weapons are good for tracking fast moving targets, but are horrible for shooting over ridges as the arm weapons are mounted in about the waist of the mech, so you have to expose a lot of yourself to shoot at range from cover. I was pop-tarting with this for a while QKD-5K 2PPC 4ML. I put the PPC's in the chest because they are higher mounted on the mech so I don't have to expose as much of myself. Yes your torso weapons are not as fast reacting as arm mounted weapons, but with a large engine your torso twist is pretty fast. Large Lasers would work too, but the long blue beam gives away your position pretty quickly if you intend to keep your enemy at range.

NEVER shoot from the same position more than twice. 1st time you surprise them, 2nd time they know where you are and line up their guns, 3rd time you're eating an alpha.

Edited by Menson, 19 December 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[Spheroid]

Remove all weapons and replace with the following 3x LLAS, AMS, TAG. Two in the chest for ridge shooting one in the arm for open country or moving targets. TAG in the opposite arm. Weapon group1 = chest LLAS and TAG, weapon group 2 = arm LLAS + TAG. Weapon group 3 = TAG. Fire groups one and two using .5 second delay to avoid ghost heat. You can clone this build on any Quickdraw variant.

Edited by Spheroid, 19 December 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[kevin roshak]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6d4a5225eb8c9ee
this is what i think i would run. i dont have a Quickdraw but it has a good long range punch (PPC) a tracer at ranges (large laser). 4ML help brawl up close, and you can combine those with the ERLL, JJs help move when you get close.

also Ferro Fibrous armor is not worth it on anything more than a light or very few mediums.
it also limits your flexibility when changing loadouts, i only put FF on one mech when i had a build i really liked and required it.

[Autobot9000]

When piloting a hunchback, there is a bit tactical knowledge to learn about your mech, after that he is one of the most solid mechs in the game:

• Your right torso is obviously carrying the bulk of weapons and is easier to hit than any other target
  
• Your front torso armor stretches even to the back making it advisable to dedicate a lot of your available armor to the front and little to the back (e.g. a 40-8 ratio if youre worried about your rear).
  
• Once you lose your side torso your arm is gone too (doh!), this means your right arm shouldn't carry a siginicant gun, rather your left arm if you have to choose
  
• For above mentioned reasons XL engines really, really don't work in a hunchback

I think the nine medium laser build is ok, but I personally liked this one a lot better

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...426194d6fcf3e0b

3x ML
6x SL
275 standard engine
endosteel
19 double heat sinks

Even with this huge number of heat sinks and the choice of speed+small lasers you can still overheat. The small lasers are just awesome combined with your speed. You will be able to circle + close in + disengage at free will. With a smaller engine you could also use a PPC in your left (!) arm, if you prefer to have more range, like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...66e124e9b8842ba

[Autobot9000]

second post about your quickdraw:

There is quite some trouble with your build, gonna try to break it down:

• You don't use a XL engine in your QD, which you basically have to on this chassis
  
• Your LRM ammo should never reside in a side torso once you get the XL, even without a XL an arm or leg is usually safer (or even the cockpit)
  
• You may have noticed on smurfy the brackets behind your missile hardpoint (reads: M(4)). This means this hardpoint hsa a maximum of 4 missile tubes, i.e. not more than 4 missiles can leave the launcher at a time. This means your LRM10 will be broken down in three (!) volleys of 4-4-2 which means any installed AMS system will fully deny all your missiles with ease, i.e. you do zero damage with your launcher. This hardpoint is obviously meant for a SRM4, if you want to isntall missiles (SRMs often miss their targets at the moment for technical reasons ("hit detection"/broken)
  
• Your pulse lasers just don't have enough range. You have no backup for longer distances, hence you basically have to get into 180m range or do zero damage with your LRM launcher - this explains why you are probably having extremely terrible results at the moment.
  
• You only have 15 heatsinks, for a pure lasre build this is not enough at all
  
• You can not afford to use ferro fibrous on a energy/missile mech, because they take up very valuable crit spaces, that you should use for heat sinks, some people even forgo endosteel for this reason
  
• you have zero armor on one arm, that doesn't carry a gun. Mind that arms shield your torso, you can twist your torso to make enemies hit your arm instead of your torso. Stripping armor here essentially lowers your survivability almost as much as stripping it from the torso.
  
• You don't use jump jets, but speed+jumping are main assets of your chassis

Suggestion for new build:





http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6953b297b1f38ba

Playstyle:
The ER lasers are good at stripping armor from enemies at very long ranges, while your high mobility will allow you to mitigate most enemy damage at such range. On close range 4 medium lasers isn't huge. You can not allow yourself to head on a brawler, e.g. AC wielding Cataphract. Use your mobility to disengage or even better choose your fights in the first place (e.g. an Atlas often doesn't have this luxury and has to take every engagement that he runs into). Use your mobility, focus on staying alive while using your lasers as often as possible. This is the core concept of a mech like the Quickdraw. The Quickdraw is a mech, that has to play for surviving as long as possible, because he absolutely lacks burst damage. The longer your Quickdraw lives the more valuable he has become. Lasers don't run out of ammo, high mobility in late game is key and at such stages enemies become weaker and your lasers are more easily able to take down even more fearsome opponents, who would tear you up, if they had full armor left. Also in late game it's often a lot of light mechs that are left, which you can handle well.

The XL is as expensive as a medium/heavy mech, but if you choose XLs in rating increments of 25 you maximize the ability to reuse them on any future mech and optimize the available internal heat sink slots, so it's a good long time investment.

Edited by Autobot9000, 20 December 2013 - 12:37 AM.

[Tesunie]

Spheroid, on 19 December 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Remove all weapons and replace with the following 3x LLAS, AMS, TAG. Two in the chest for ridge shooting one in the arm for open country or moving targets. TAG in the opposite arm. Weapon group1 = chest LLAS and TAG, weapon group 2 = arm LLAS + TAG. Weapon group 3 = TAG. Fire groups one and two using .5 second delay to avoid ghost heat. You can clone this build on any Quickdraw variant.

Why the TAG on this? Why the 3 Large Lasers? For a new player question, don't you think you could remove a Large Laser and the TAG to prevent the ghost heat (something a new player is probably going to have a hard time with) and add in some other weapon system and heat sinks? TAG could be replaced with a med laser, and I'd probably replace the large laser for another med laser. Then pile on some small LRMs or heat sinks (crit slot dependent).

Autobot9000, on 20 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

second post about your quickdraw:

There is quite some trouble with your build, gonna try to break it down:

• Your LRM ammo should never reside in a side torso once you get the XL, even without a XL an arm or leg is usually safer (or even the cockpit)
  
• You may have noticed on smurfy the brackets behind your missile hardpoint (reads: M(4)). This means this hardpoint hsa a maximum of 4 missile tubes, i.e. not more than 4 missiles can leave the launcher at a time. This means your LRM10 will be broken down in three (!) volleys of 4-4-2 which means any installed AMS system will fully deny all your missiles with ease, i.e. you do zero damage with your launcher. This hardpoint is obviously meant for a SRM4, if you want to isntall missiles (SRMs often miss their targets at the moment for technical reasons ("hit detection"/broken) that you should use for heat sinks, some people even forgo endosteel for this reason
  
• you have zero armor on one arm, that doesn't carry a gun. Mind that arms shield your torso, you can twist your torso to make enemies hit your arm instead of your torso. Stripping armor here essentially lowers your survivability almost as much as stripping it from the torso.
  
• You don't use jump jets, but speed+jumping are main assets of your chassis

Before I comment here, I just want to say that you bring out a lot of good advice, and I mean no disrespect nor do I want to appear like you aren't being helpful. However, my own observations and experience seems to tell me something else.

- The Side Torso of the Quickdraw seems to be very safe. I have been stashing ammo there since I first started playing the mech. This is why the XL is so nice in the Quickdraw, but also why the Quickdraw isn't much of a brawler. It's best in other roles just because of it's inherent hit box layout, which is great for a support mech such as this one.

- I seem to think I see (especially with my LRM Hunchback 4sp with an LRM15 in a 6 tube slot) that LRMs in the waves actually seem to split through AMS. What I am seeing with LRMs in smaller tub slots is that the first wave will get shot with AMS, but before AMS can concentrate on the second wave it has already hit. This leaves the second wave of missiles almost completely unscathed. The third wave takes the AMS afterwards, and will get shot down. Just a pattern that I have seen personally as of late. So, maybe having a large launcher in a small slot isn't all bad? (PS: The missiles group by how many are launching, so the missiles in this case are as tight as an LRM5, instead of being as spread out as an LRM10. Artemis not needed for the tighter spread, of course from my experience.)

- The "shield" arm does not need armor, though I would recommend placing at least some armor there anyway. It might be useful as a shield, but only if you are twisting your torso, a trick many new players don't do. For this person, I would recommend at least a few points of armor on the arm, like 5 or something small. I do it with my Cicadas all the time and it works well enough for them. If you lose the arm, no loss. Torso armor is still more key, especially to new players who might not twist either at the right time or not at all.

- Agreed. JJs and the speed this chassis can go at, combined with its hard points, is what makes this mech work so well. You need the JJs and speed to help you escape and flank enemies. You want to be a striker, hit from a side and fade away. Don't stand there and take the hits. JJs let you either jump over hills and shoot (jump sniping), or let you jump over obstacles to escape. Ex: In the canyon map, you can use the speed and JJs to get over a ridge and into the next valley. Any non-jump mech can't follow you so easily, meaning you can keep popping over the ridge and ambushing them.



The Quickdraw is not a "tank" in this game. It's larger CT (which I like) means most of it's damage is going to hit the same spot. This reduces the amount of damage spread, making it so less damage will typically drop a Quickdraw. Most of the Quickdraws have missile slots and all have energy. How you wish to play them will determine what you place on the mech. I personally go with LRMs and med lasers on the variants with lots of missile slots in them, and move to just all laser on the one with low missile slots. However, this does not prevent you from trying SRMs, but right now SRMs are not working properly in the game.

There are a ton of different ways to play this mech. Experiment and see what works for you. I would suggest to remove FF upgrade though, as it will eat too many crit slots that you can use. This mech is heavy enough that it can put on enough weapons to use the slots FF would take. (My smurfy custom I posted here I had to remove FF to make it work, and even then I still ran out of slots a few times.)

[NRP]

Probably should have asked before purchasing mechs for the first time.

A long time ago, the Hunchback 4P was mean. Now, not so much. Heat kills it in my opinion (ghost heat, hot maps, etc). A Hunchback 4G or 4H would have been a better purchase these days (a ShadowHawk an even better purchase). Both can mount an AC/20, so both can absolutely rock socks (an AC/20 doesn't lie).

The 5K was my favorite Quickdraw. I ran it as a jump striker with 6 MLs and an XL360. It was kind of fun for a while, but only moderately successful. As far as jumping heavies go, there are only 3 that I really love: Cataphract 3D, Jester, and Thunderbolt 5SE.

[Damocles]

My 5K:
QKD-5K

Playstyle; jump, run, strike. Do not stop moving. With mastery you're gonna be at 106Kph. I like to mix it up and brawl with the enemy mob for a second and then escape after I've caused some confusion with their initial advance. This usually coincides with my team showing up in force and sorting them out. You can alpha your large and mediums every now and then, you can strike from a distance with 3 LL. Do not become the focal point for the enemy; you're a 60 tonner and a glass cannon (sorta).

Edited by Damocles, 20 December 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[Sh0kker]

This is what I like to use:
<a href="http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=84&l=709365dce979ab62de87ca68195c6d69d505626b">QKD-5K</a>

I don't know how well the mech is competitively, but I have a lot of fun with it. And despite it having an XL, it does take a decent beating. Compared to my hunchback, this mech seems sturdier. I have a 1.79 K/D ratio with the 5K, not that K/D is particularly representative of the value I bring to my team.

I set the large lasers to chain fire and right mouse button. The medium lasers to the left mouse button. I plink away at mechs from range with my large lasers, usually only barely exposing my right torso to get shots off. When something gets really close, I hit them with the 3 medium lasers. I felt the speed with the XL300 was good enough and with the jump jets I have some nice maneuverability.

I have many mechs unlocked, but this is one of my favorites and most fun to play. Hope this helps!

[Spheroid]

@Tesunie

Large lasers are better with that speed profile than a mixed armament. Something slower needs mixed and something faster should boat mediums. Quickdraws of all stripes are going be engaging at and controlling medium range distance in many fights. The TAG is to help the team take down DDCs and to max his match score. Also my build doesn't require making any structural changes or engine alterations since cost may be a factor.

Edited by Spheroid, 20 December 2013 - 06:53 PM.