19 replies to this topic

[Monky]

I am going to give some feedback as I haven't in a while. I am going to give it in simple, point by point format of 'good idea, bad idea'.

On the topic of 'player levels and pilot tree rework'

Good idea;

Reworking the obtrusive, time eating and unrewarding pilot skill tree development we have, which ends up with (usually) 2 mechs being resold out of the 3 needed to master a chassis, and attempt to provide a better sense of progression.

Bad idea;

Instead of addressing the root issues that made this system poor such as paying 3x the price + upgrades to get to the XP mastery for the one variant you actually wanted, being unable to unlock upgrades within chassis if you don't currently own them which eats up mechbays, and having a tiered unlock system as well as some upgrades which are effectively mandatory (speed tweak, cooling related perks, bonuses on tiers to effectiveness).... you go and add more tiered unlocks and potential game balance black holes that no one asked for.

On the topic of 'module balance and availability rework'

Good idea;

Streamlining currently available modules to have give players the ability to fine tune their mech without feeling like they will have to sell their firstborn to afford the ones they want

Bad idea;

Adding in completely unnecessary slots with separate purposes like consumable and normal module which make little to no sense and could easily be covered by already existing systems. On top of this adding a variety of module ideas that can easily result in gameplay imbalance.

On the topic of 'current and future weapon balance'

Good idea;

Including detailed and thorough equipment from the mechwarrior/bt franchise and sticking with the build system as best as possible

Bad idea;

Leaving a number of these systems half implimented, ineffective, or not functioning at all (we're looking at you Command Console, NARC beacon, no toggle mode on AMS/UAC5, suboptimal performance of some weapons like pulse lasers/lbx) when the fix can be easily implemented with changes to the weapons/equipment XML files to get it 'up and running' until the desired performance is settled on.

On the topic of 'community warfare'

Good idea;

Creating a community warfare plan that draws a larger picture for all to participate in and provides meaningful progression and out of match benefits for dedicated players.

Bad idea;

Concocting a competetive progression system that provides actual in match benefits for elite players and leaves new/less experienced players out to dry, while simultaneously draining resources from community warfare development. There is no reason concept developer for the leveling scheme couldn't have spent their time on community warfare, none, no reason at ALL!

PGI, I understand this can come off as really condescending, but you are being really deserving of it. I know software development isn't easy but this is basic 'cause and effect' analysis. Come on.

[and zero]

Hell, if you dont wish to be condescending I will

Pgi has no bloody idea what they are doing.

Like some of the weapons you mentioned. Could fix those at least temporarily in 5 minutes. Or the NEW AND EXCITING skirmish mode; it took over a year for them to simply remove two bases from assault??? Are you ******* kidding me??

Anyway, some good points man. If only pgi would listen. I really want pulse lasers to be competitively viable (among the 200 other issues).

[Imperius]

I love all these big talk self proclaimed programmers in these forums.

[and zero]

Imperius, on 21 December 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

I love all these big talk self proclaimed programmers in these forums.

Oh, sorry, youre correct. It definitley takes a year to edit a few numbers in a few key files, delete 2 small map assets, and rewrite a basic win/loss code based upon remaining players and kills. Clearly, this is some hardcore programming.

I understand what youre saying, but come on man.

Edited by and zero, 21 December 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[FuzzyLog1c]

and zero, on 21 December 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Oh, sorry, youre correct. It definitley takes a year to edit a few numbers in a few key files, delete 2 small map assets, and rewrite a basic win/loss code based upon remaining players and kills. Clearly, this is some hardcore programming.

I understand what youre saying, but come on man.

Exactly correct. If necessary, I'll pull a couple of supporting threads where people fixed 75% of the MWO balance problems in minutes (e.g. correct double heat sink dissipation, lower mech heat thresholds, network packet rates, and other tweaks) by editing the XML files, and the threads where a couple of amateur artists built maps and mech models (using CryTek's tools, nonetheless) over the course of a couple of days that make a mockery of the maps and models that PGI cobbled together.

The only reason why these guys are still employed is because the fanbase has been absolutely starving for Battletech content. Their dismissive attitude and technical, um, competence will not affect their status at PGI while MWO project is alive, but it is highly unlikely that they will ever find jobs at another developer once this project is complete and IGP (true to industry traditions) lays off the whole team. Think about it: if you owned a development studio, given the track record of this game, would you hire anyone other than Alex, who did the mech art? He's been the sole bright spot in this story, and he was scalped out of the forum crowd--he wasn't even part of the original team.

The only thing that adequately describes the excruciatingly slow rate of progress on this title is that the team has to constantly "pull itself up by the boostraps," or rather, teach themselves everything they didn't learn in school, on the fly. I'm sure it sucks for them, and I would feel sorry for them, but their disrespectful attitude, rampant forum censorship (this post will probably be [redacted] within a couple of hours), and lack of responsiveness to their stakeholders (i.e.: people buying MC) makes it far too easy to condemn them, and hard to be compassionate. If they were to come to the community, hat in hand, and invite us to help, MWO could be a great thing. But I doubt they'll get there until five minutes after IGP signals that they're going to pull the plug.

People already dedicate an enormous amount of time building spreadsheets and web tools to manage this game, outside of the actual game experience, and you know that they would put an even more enormous amount of effort into making the game a better place to play, if PGI would let them contribute.

Edited by FuzzyLog1c, 21 December 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

FuzzyLog1c, on 21 December 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

The only reason why these guys are still employed is because the fanbase has been absolutely starving for Battletech content. Their dismissive attitude and technical, um, competence will not affect their status at PGI while MWO project is alive, but it is highly unlikely that they will ever find jobs at another developer once this project is complete and IGP (true to industry traditions) lays off the whole team. Think about it: if you owned a development studio, given the track record of this game, would you hire anyone other than Alex, who did the mech art? He's been the sole bright spot in this story, and he was scalped out of the forum crowd--he wasn't even part of the original team.


The only thing that adequately describes the excruciatingly slow rate of progress on this title is that the team has to constantly "pull itself up by the boostraps," or rather, teach themselves everything they didn't learn in school, on the fly. I'm sure it sucks for them, and I would feel sorry for them, but their heavy handed "moderation" (this post will probably be [redacted] within a couple of hours by Niko Snow) and know-it-all attitude makes it easy to condemn them and hard to be compassionate. If they were to come to the community, hat in hand, and invite us to provide the manpower they so desperately need (but clearly can't afford), MWO could be a great thing.

+1000 to you for the truth and couldn't agree with you more man. Heavy handed moderation and preferential treatment to the few regulars who still circle jerk around the doe-eyed cadets just learning about the shortcomings of this title are the reason I hardly bother to post anymore. It's one thing to have a studio ignore the community, but when the goons working for them turn against said community it's best to leave them to their niche market where they'll never emerge from successfully without some sort of objective discourse beyond gestapo tactics only crusty old mods from the 90s still employ.

[Sandpit]

It's been my experience that it's always "easy" when someone else is doing it

[Monky]

FuzzyLog1c, on 21 December 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Excellent discourse

I would put Thomas on the list of hirable people. Him and Alex are the only ones who I've seen that can interact with the community on any level without starting **** storms, and put overall good work into the product. Some of the devs can do one but not the other, and some can't do either. It's got to be aggravating for them as well as I know some of them are trying, but it's just not getting what needs to happen done.

If it were my team at work pulling this kind of performance I'd be gathering solid data to get heads to roll and replace. Learning phases are one thing but we've been at this for so long and there is so little attention to detail or even effort to bandage things together to make them workable it's just unfathomable. We get the occasional balance update and or new map/mech on a schedule so they can try to convince people to open their wallets, every once in a while an engineering update manages to trickle through half working, and then sits for 8 months with no real change in quality. It's just sad.

[Satan n stuff]

and zero, on 21 December 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Hell, if you dont wish to be condescending I will

Pgi has no bloody idea what they are doing.

Like some of the weapons you mentioned. Could fix those at least temporarily in 5 minutes. Or the NEW AND EXCITING skirmish mode; it took over a year for them to simply remove two bases from assault??? Are you ******* kidding me??

Anyway, some good points man. If only pgi would listen. I really want pulse lasers to be competitively viable (among the 200 other issues).

I think they were waiting for the clan announcement to keep the players who would otherwise complain about the new cash grab quiet.

[DemonRaziel]

[Chemie]

If I have to re-buy mechs of variants that I have previously basiced to re-level the one I want that has been mastered (for example, 'phrat 3D or raven 3L) which are mechs I only want one variant and only own one currently mastered...PGI is not being fair to the player base

[Almond Brown]

Chemie, on 22 December 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

If I have to re-buy mechs of variants that I have previously basiced to re-level the one I want that has been mastered (for example, 'phrat 3D or raven 3L) which are mechs I only want one variant and only own one currently mastered...PGI is not being fair to the player base

Where did they say they would do that? If you wish to shat upon the Dev, at least use a concern that was not made up in your own weakly assembled biased brain matter ffs.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Almond Brown, on 22 December 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Where did they say they would do that? If you wish to shat upon the Dev, at least use a concern that was not made up in your own weakly assembled biased brain matter ffs.

Actually I have seen issues with the mech tree in that regards. So your insults have no merit. For a couple of weeks two mechs I elited showed nothing not even xp earned. I had to stop leveling till it came back. Have no clue how or why but it did happen.

[Almond Brown]

Mudhutwarrior, on 22 December 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Actually I have seen issues with the mech tree in that regards. So your insults have no merit. For a couple of weeks two mechs I elited showed nothing not even xp earned. I had to stop leveling till it came back. Have no clue how or why but it did happen.

And that has nothing to do with this topic. If your having "isolated" issues, then start a thread or send in a Ticket.

You made a statement, as if it was fact, and in fact it was totally made up.

I have no clue how or why you would do that, but it did happen.

Edited by Almond Brown, 22 December 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Chemie]

Almond Brown, on 22 December 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Where did they say they would do that? If you wish to shat upon the Dev, at least use a concern that was not made up in your own weakly assembled biased brain matter ffs.

where did they say they wouldn't? The command chair post is very unclear and I am voicing a concern. Take your insults elsewhere

Edited by Chemie, 22 December 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[PanzerMagier]

Great post OP, I like your style. Thanks for voicing my opinion.

You have my seal of approval. You hear that PGI? I support this guy and you should too... if you ever listen to us...

[Reitrix]

Why do people sell the other Variants rather than find a fun working build with it?

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 22 December 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Actually I have seen issues with the mech tree in that regards. So your insults have no merit. For a couple of weeks two mechs I elited showed nothing not even xp earned. I had to stop leveling till it came back. Have no clue how or why but it did happen.

So bugs and glitches are now what we should balance the game upon?

[MustrumRidcully]

Almond Brown, on 22 December 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Where did they say they would do that? If you wish to shat upon the Dev, at least use a concern that was not made up in your own weakly assembled biased brain matter ffs.

Well, if they refund all XP with General XP, but don'T post that they will change the 3-chassis rule in any way, the logical consequence will be that people would have to rebuy mechs to re-elite or re-master a mech where they have sold off some of the variants.

Reitrix, on 22 December 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Why do people sell the other Variants rather than find a fun working build with it?

Mech Bays cost MC and there might be more fun and putting entirely new mechs into that mech bay and make fun working builds with those.

In the end, since mechs can be sold, it should be expected that people will do so, and the developers will need to keep that in mind. Of course, considering how early these plans are currently, I would not be surprised if htey haven't done so yet but might do in the future. Reminding them of this issue will probably improve the chances.

[Egomane]

For the feedback in the opening post: Please post it to the official feedback thread for most of your points - http://mwomercs.com/...eedback-thread/

For the rest: Enjoy the ride with the bird!