1080 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

The main flaw with weapons in MWO is:
-Focused instantaneous damage

Lasers, LRM's and SSRM's are implemented in a way that they are not game breaking.

However, PPC's and AC's are game breakers. No if's, and's or butt'. Why? It allows a player to do damage without exposing themselves to return damage. When you are firing a Laser, you have to expose yourself for a second to do concentrated fire, meanwhile you yourself are opened for concentrated fire. Meanwhile, with a PPC or AC, you locate an enemy mechs target signature, pop up in the air for 1 second, fire, then immediate hire OR you crest a hill and fire for a second.

All that has to be done to fix this broke game is to force AC and PPC's to do stream damage. The other solution is to force a charge up time like Gauss.

[Treye Snow]

Wasting your breath mate.

We've been arguing ballistics and their front loaded damage for well over a year now and they've done nothing.

But then again, PGI only has a handful of employees still working there so.. I can't blame them for their snail-paced speed.

[Sandpit]

Maybe because not everyone agrees with this opinion? I'd wager to guess that at least as many that argue your side argue against it. There's a lot that think weapons are very well balanced in their current form. Feel free to peruse the other dozen or so threads on this subject.

[That Guy]

a better solution would be for ballistic weapons to have a small cone of fire. close range shots still will hit where you aim, but long range shots wont always hit exactly where you aim, spreading damage. especially when there are 3 PPC and heavy AC grouped together. after-all we accept cone of fire for missile weapons, MGs and LBX, why not a small one for ballistic weapons? a COF about the size of the arm reticule would do the trick

ballistic weapons deviate, that's just how they work. and it allows other ultra and later rotary ACs to be implemented with out breaking the game. those weapons can be less accurate.

[Spheroid]

There is no problem. PPCs are slow and hot as hell. AC-20 the only true mech killer has a short range. The current meta is AC-5/2 DPS killing which is not what you are complaining about here. We are out of beta they are not going to redo the core mechanics of the game.

[Sandpit]

Why do we need thread #2349983750942 on ballistics? Why couldn't this have been posted in one of these?

http://mwomercs.com/...istic-vs-laser/
http://mwomercs.com/...cs-overpowered/
http://mwomercs.com/...-vs-ballistics/
http://mwomercs.com/...visions-thread/
http://mwomercs.com/...ow/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...or-and-physics/
http://mwomercs.com/...u-balance-them/
http://mwomercs.com/...t-fire-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...ettering-beams/

[Rhent]

Spheroid, on 22 December 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

There is no problem. PPCs are slow and hot as hell. AC-20 the only true mech killer has a short range. The current meta is AC-5/2 DPS killing which is not what you are complaining about here. We are out of beta they are not going to redo the core mechanics of the game.

Before ghost heat, the meta was a 4PPC stalker. The devs put in ghost heat to deal with pin point alphas. Now, the 4 PPC Stalker (40 damage pin point), was replaced with:
Misery: 2 PPC + AC/20
Highlander: 2 PPC + 2 AC/5
Jagger: 2 AC/40

The Devs already took Gauss out of the equation by forcing you to basically expose yourself for .75 sec before you can fire.

We are exactly back where were were before ghost heat. The devs screwed up and did not fix the problem. I like to be competitive, but when I'm shoehorned into a competitive few builds, the game is dead.

Sandpit, on 22 December 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Why do we need thread #2349983750942 on ballistics? Why couldn't this have been posted in one of these?

http://mwomercs.com/...istic-vs-laser/
http://mwomercs.com/...cs-overpowered/
http://mwomercs.com/...-vs-ballistics/
http://mwomercs.com/...visions-thread/
http://mwomercs.com/...ow/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...or-and-physics/
http://mwomercs.com/...u-balance-them/
http://mwomercs.com/...t-fire-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...ettering-beams/

ECM was a nightmare. The forums started to become flooded with "Fix ECM" posts. After 6 months of the forums being flooded, ECM was fixed. One thread on AC is not going to get it fixed. 1,000 posts on AC will get it fixed.

[Sandpit]

Rhent, on 22 December 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

1,000 posts on AC will get it fixed.

post does not equal new thread.

stop posting duplicate threads. please. seriously. It just clutters the front page and makes finding threads on different subjects harder and makes it even more confusing for new players trying to find stuff. There's a reason it's against the CoC

[Ghogiel]

Rhent, on 22 December 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Before ghost heat, the meta was a 4PPC stalker. The devs put in ghost heat to deal with pin point alphas. Now, the 4 PPC Stalker (40 damage pin point), was replaced with:
Misery: 2 PPC + AC/20
Highlander: 2 PPC + 2 AC/5
Jagger: 2 AC/40

Ghost heat was a 'fix' for boats not pinpoint or alpha stiking. As you pointed out it then made the optimal loadouts mixed builds or heavily penalized boat loadouts that alpha.

[Effectz]

SRMS don't even reg half the time,they're not game breaking because they're broken,its hit or miss with them and are unreliable.If they worked as they should and dished out the damage they're supposed to you would see alot more brawling builds and more variety.

Edited by Effectz, 22 December 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

They nerfed the 4 PPC meta and now we have the Autocannon/PPC meta. I dont think their is much they can do besides buff SRMs/Pulse/and LRMs.

[Mcgral18]

Non instant convergeance, removal/reworking of frontloaded weapons (gauss exception?) or cone of fire are some of the options, some more popular than others.

But, we have had this issue for months and what we got was Ghost heat. Part of their clan balance is to increase Ghost heat...dont expect genius balance any time soon.

[OneEyed Jack]

Spheroid, on 22 December 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

There is no problem. PPCs are slow and hot as hell. AC-20 the only true mech killer has a short range. The current meta is AC-5/2 DPS killing which is not what you are complaining about here. We are out of beta they are not going to redo the core mechanics of the game.

No, no, no, no, no! Don't you get it? Haven't you read the whines threads? ACs are a singular entity. They all fire for 20 damage at 0.52 second intervals and have the longest range in the game! It's the AC meta! We're all doomed! DOOOOOOOMMMED, I say!

(When people have actually started crying about AC5s, there's simply no further hope for logical discussion on the subject.)

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 22 December 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[Rhent]

OneEyed Jack, on 22 December 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

No, no, no, no, no! Don't you get it? Haven't you read the whines threads? ACs are a singular entity. They all fire for 20 damage at 0.52 second intervals and have the longest range in the game! It's the AC meta! We're all doomed! DOOOOOOOMMMED, I say!

(When people have actually started crying about AC5s, there's simply no further hope for logical discussion on the subject.)

Or, now just hear me out, OR, you change AC and PPC to do streaming damage just like lasers. All of a sudden you no longer need to worry about front loaded damage and poptarts and hill cresting is no longer an effect tactic. Lasers, even with ghost heat becomes more competitive. Everyone is now forced to aim and expose themselves when they are dealing damage.

[Sandpit]

OR you leave it where it is because it's balanced now

[Rhent]

Sandpit, on 22 December 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

OR you leave it where it is because it's balanced now

OR, just hear me out now, or understand that the weapons are not anywhere remotely balanced now.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rhent, on 22 December 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

The main flaw with weapons in MWO is:
-Focused instantaneous damage

Lasers, LRM's and SSRM's are implemented in a way that they are not game breaking.

However, PPC's and AC's are game breakers. No if's, and's or butt'. Why? It allows a player to do damage without exposing themselves to return damage. When you are firing a Laser, you have to expose yourself for a second to do concentrated fire, meanwhile you yourself are opened for concentrated fire. Meanwhile, with a PPC or AC, you locate an enemy mechs target signature, pop up in the air for 1 second, fire, then immediate hire OR you crest a hill and fire for a second.

All that has to be done to fix this broke game is to force AC and PPC's to do stream damage. The other solution is to force a charge up time like Gauss.

Only thing that makes 'em game breaking is they are converging. Loosen that up and they will be fine.

[Antonio]

So I'm not going to say whether ACs and PPCs should be instant damage or not but if that is a problem then I think this is a solution:

• ACs fire stream of bullets.
  
• PPCs splash damage across a few adjacent hitboxes.

I chose splash for PPCs instead of DoT because that would make them pretty much same as Lasers

Edited by Antonio, 22 December 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Sandpit]

Rhent, on 22 December 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

OR, just hear me out now, or understand that the weapons are not anywhere remotely balanced now.

OR I could read your post that reiterates the other dozen or so threads on the exact same subject that I also disagree with because my opinion doesn't agree with yours.

Weapons are balanced, please don't change them

[Rhent]

Sandpit, on 22 December 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

OR I could read your post that reiterates the other dozen or so threads on the exact same subject that I also disagree with because my opinion doesn't agree with yours.

Weapons are balanced, please don't change them

Please discuss SRM's and NARC and how they are balanced.