32 replies to this topic

[Symbaalic]

Balance in the Battletech world was great back in the 80s with FASA. In the RPG MechWarrior there were some incongruences, but no one uses that in MWO so... See, once they injected the horsed up concept of "hard-points", "Ghost heat", "Not really double, Double heat sinks", the list goes on they introduced untested concepts that were certain to prove faulty. Did the people running this circus actually think no one had considered their "improvements" three releases of the game ago? Now you can be certain that all you will hear is people, that either cannot operate the game to the level of others and / or do not get the "rolls" they believe they should whilst "pew-pewing" their foes, how unbalanced the game is and how the devs need to fix it. Sorry, but it was unbalanced the day that they altered it from its tested origins. Indeed all it needed was the computational oversight of a CPU and everything would have been fine.
Of course many may disagree, but in that I ask what have they done besides sell you a Gold mech for 500 clams or some skins that you wont own when the game shuts down after 3 years of waiting on promises which never materialized? At that point some may finally exclaim, "I invested in a Madeoff Moment!"
Counter-Rantz?

[SecondReversal]

I would like to take this opportunity to relay to you something I once heard a wise man say;

This thread is new and exciting!

Thank you. Please continue telling me how 3050 Battletech was sooooo balanced, and was the best game ever, and how it directly translates into an online real-time first-person shooter/sim.

[Livebait]

Well all I can say is PGI has got some big brass ones, to ask with a straight face give me 500 bucks so I can stand in a square pretending I'm capturing a base with a giant sparking pump thing in the middle.

[Whatzituyah]

SecondReversal, on 24 December 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

I would like to take this opportunity to relay to you something I once heard a wise man say;

This thread is new and exciting!

Thank you. Please continue telling me how 3050 Battletech was sooooo balanced, and was the best game ever, and how it directly translates into an online real-time first-person shooter/sim.

I would love too see him/her try to explain how it can be translated so accurately.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 24 December 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[Lykaon]

Symbaalic, on 24 December 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Balance in the Battletech world was great back in the 80s with FASA. In the RPG MechWarrior there were some incongruences, but no one uses that in MWO so... See, once they injected the horsed up concept of "hard-points", "Ghost heat", "Not really double, Double heat sinks", the list goes on they introduced untested concepts that were certain to prove faulty. Did the people running this circus actually think no one had considered their "improvements" three releases of the game ago? Now you can be certain that all you will hear is people, that either cannot operate the game to the level of others and / or do not get the "rolls" they believe they should whilst "pew-pewing" their foes, how unbalanced the game is and how the devs need to fix it. Sorry, but it was unbalanced the day that they altered it from its tested origins. Indeed all it needed was the computational oversight of a CPU and everything would have been fine.
Of course many may disagree, but in that I ask what have they done besides sell you a Gold mech for 500 clams or some skins that you wont own when the game shuts down after 3 years of waiting on promises which never materialized? At that point some may finally exclaim, "I invested in a Madeoff Moment!"
Counter-Rantz?

So you think that a 100% faithful (or as close to 100%) translation using table top rules would be a better game?

So we build a mech and press launch.

Then the CPU computes who gets to move first? Presumably enforcing turn sequences by locking your ability to operate your mech until it's your turn.

So each player gets to move their mechs in an order specified by the CPU (that is computing initiative order for us) Followed by the shooting phase where we get tho have the CPU roll "dice" to see if we hit anything followed by the CPU "rolling to see where we hit.

This of course would be followed by a melee combat phase as a strict translation from table top would of course include melee.Where the CPU calculates if and where we hit any viable targets.

And then the maintenance phase where the CPU computes and applies damage and displaces heat generate by our weapon fire and finally applies penalties based on heat scale for heat in excess of our heatsinks.

So basicaly megamech with some flashy graphics?

[TehSBGX]

Actually one thing they really should of kept was the TT heatscale. A hard cap, and sinks only dissapate. That way true doubles would be fine and ghost heat wouldn't have a reason to be around since the quad ppc builds it responded to would just cook themselves with TT style heat scale.

I admit, with a TT heat scale I may have to give up some builds I like but if it helps balance the game and feels intuitive it's okay.

[Lykaon]

TehSBGX, on 24 December 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Actually one thing they really should of kept was the TT heatscale. A hard cap, and sinks only dissapate. That way true doubles would be fine and ghost heat wouldn't have a reason to be around since the quad ppc builds it responded to would just cook themselves with TT style heat scale.

I admit, with a TT heat scale I may have to give up some builds I like but if it helps balance the game and feels intuitive it's okay.

Agreed a heat scale rework may be in order.

[PanzerMagier]

Something like heat scale should have been implemented. not exactly like it but yea.
This game would have been 300% better if it was low heat cap high dissipation instead of the opposite.
Crosshair blurr/shake would have also been a better solution than this ghost heat {Scrap}.


But then again this has been said a thousand times in a thousand threads, why are we going over it yet again?
It's not like the devs are gonna start listening or something.

[FupDup]

Symbaalic, on 24 December 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Balance in the Battletech world was great back in the 80s with FASA.

DOOHOHOHOHOHO THAT SLAPS ME ON THE KNEE.

[Mcgral18]

Well, PGI also broke the heat system and refire rates. The AC20 does 20 damage in 10 seconds, not 4. This lead to the doubling of armor, since everything was dying since damage was coming in 2 to 4 times as fast (or 20, in the case of the AC2) as it was intended.

PGI also kept the same heat generation, and dissipation, but increased that fire rate so much the heatsinks just can't handle all the weapons on stock loadouts. Not to mention the high cap promotes high alphas, then a cooldown period rather than heat neutral builds (which are nearly impossible with the current system).

We could also go on about convergeance and front loaded damage...but PGI doesn't seem to want that kind of balance.

[Sandpit]

Yay, another balance thread!
http://mwomercs.com/...t-fire-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...w-with-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...rs-misslewaste/
http://mwomercs.com/...weapon-balance/
http://mwomercs.com/...r-jumpjet-ppcs/
http://mwomercs.com/...27-gauss-rifle/
http://mwomercs.com/...-of-ac-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...vs-ecm-balance/
http://mwomercs.com/...-jump-ppc-jump/

That's without even doing a search, just looking at the front page

Edited by Sandpit, 24 December 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[FupDup]

Sandpit, on 24 December 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Yay, another balance thread!

This is the gameplay balance section. This is where balance threads are supposed to be. That is the entire purpose of this section's existence.

Edited by FupDup, 24 December 2013 - 10:44 PM.

[Zakie Chan]

Warhammer 40k, like battletech, is a mash up of buffs and nerfs to keep dice rollers on their toes. No matter how perfect the balance stagnation is boring.

[Lyoto Machida]

Lykaon, on 24 December 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Agreed a heat scale rework may be in order.

"May be in order"...lol.

Understatement of the decade.

[Ahja]

Well the real point I think the poster is making is this is not BT or MW. Its somthing else they are making up at our expense. I think he is PO-ed like myself that we all came here to play BT or MW and this is not BT or MW. So if that is what we all want why are they not making it? If they can do all that they have done thus far why not BT or WM?

[Sandpit]

FupDup, on 24 December 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

This is the gameplay balance section. This is where balance threads are supposed to be. That is the entire purpose of this section's existence.

I agree 100%

What's not cool is posting a duplicate thread every time you have a "new and exciting" you post a new thread on it so that there are 10 different threads all on the exact same subject posted by the same 10-20 posters cluttering up the front page of the forums that anyone else wanting to read or suggest something OTHER than weapons balance IE ballistics, they have to weed through 2 pages minimum to find one

[Adrienne Vorton]

Livebait, on 24 December 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

so I can stand in a square pretending I'm capturing a base with a giant sparking pump thing in the middle.

HEY! don´t be so harsh...soon it will be a mobile outpost

[Varent]

Ahja, on 24 December 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

Well the real point I think the poster is making is this is not BT or MW. Its somthing else they are making up at our expense. I think he is PO-ed like myself that we all came here to play BT or MW and this is not BT or MW. So if that is what we all want why are they not making it? If they can do all that they have done thus far why not BT or WM?

Or not. I am a hardcore battletech fan. Im here for the joy of being able to play around and be in a mech. If I wanted battletech id play battletech. I want a well balanced shooter with a rough battletech feel. its what I got, quite happy with it.

[Ahja]

Well good for you. Some people like meatloaf every monday.

[Sandpit]

f you notice? In all of the "op, broken, up, etc." threads? It's the same 20 or so players posting the same exact posts over and over and over and over again, with a few new players here and there once in a while giving their opinions.

PGI, please just know that not everyone (and judging by just about every single poll these players posting this kinda stuff have ever posted) agrees that the isn't balanced

Lasers = good place right now
ballistics = good place right now
heat = good place right now
SRMs = could use a look at hit registration

The game, overall, is very well-balanced at the moment. Please do not continue implementing easy buttons for those that simply cannot or will not adjust. Those of us that actually look for a challenging game appreciate where the game is now.