16 replies to this topic

[D A T A]

Gauss needs 3 seconds to cooldown and 1 second to load and 750 range
LB10XAC needs 12 damage
small las 110 range
lgplslas 7.5 heat and 11 damage and 0.4 duration
mdplslas 1.5 weight 4 heat 0.4 duration
SRMs need 2.5 damage
PPC needs 9 heat 10 damage 540 range
ERPPC needs 13.5 heat 10 damage 750 range
mdlasers need 3.5 heat
lglasers need 6 heat
erlglasers need 8 heat
laser maximum without ghost heat= 3, and not 2


this would give a sense to mainly srm mechs and mainly lasers mechs

actually we have good mixed mechs and good ballistic only mechs.
laser only and missile only mechs are weak today.

if you think that erppc or pulse lasers balanced............think 1 second about how many mechs go around using ERPPCs or large pulse lasers..........and compare to how many mechs use ac 10 ac 20 ac 2 and ac 5

Edited by IL MECHWARRIOR, 23 December 2013 - 04:47 AM.

[Lykaon]

You have noticed a problem (weak lasers and SRMs) but have failed to see why the problem exists.

The problem has to do with how weapons interact with the armor mechanics.

PPCss and AC exploit the failure in the armor system.

Lasers and SRMs emulate a missing support mechanic for the armor system.


The armor mechanics used for MWO are the same as those used for Table Top Battletech.

The breakdown occurs because MWO does not use the supporting mechanics needed to have the armor system function.

[Khobai]

Correct. ACs need to burst fire to spread damage and PPCs need to do splash damage. They need to spread the damage across multiple locations like SRMs/LRMs/LBXs/Lasers

[D A T A]

they can not do that, since their hit detection code sucks
as programmers, they suck
so the only solution is to upgrade beam and missile weapons except lrms, even ppcs neet just a bit less heat.

also, in my opinion each mech should have 50% more armor capacity and armor should weight much less, this would make alphas less scary without creating programming problems

[AlmightyAeng]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 24 December 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

they can not do that, since their hit detection code sucks
as programmers, they suck
so the only solution ....

Or...maybe fix hit detection, like they've slowly been doing, rather than continue to create more bandaids that break more than they fix?

[Lykaon]

Khobai, on 23 December 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Correct. ACs need to burst fire to spread damage and PPCs need to do splash damage. They need to spread the damage across multiple locations like SRMs/LRMs/LBXs/Lasers

As I said the armor system used for mechwarrior is the same as the table top game.This armor mechanic was designed to function in conjunction with several other aspects of the table top game.

Not only is MWo missing almost all of the support mechanics for the armor system MWo activley promotes conditions the table top game tried to prevent.

Table top used distinct to hit roles for each weapon system.This vastly reduced the amount of damage recieved in a turn.MWo uses a group fire mechanic allowing substantial damage to be applied all at one time vastly reducing survival time of targets.

Table top used an escalating heat penalty mechanic.As a mech built up heat in excess of it's heat sink capacity progressively more severe penalties were applied to the movement/mobility of the mech and targeting reducing accuracy.This reduced the damage that could be succesfully applied in a turn.MWo has no progressive penalties our mechs are dealing 100% damage or 0% damage when they eventually shut down.

Table top uses a random hit location mechanic to spread incoming damage to a target across several armor locations.Vastly increasing survival time and armor effectiveness.MWo allows for relativley easy applicationj of damage consistantly to exactally where we aim vastly reducing over all armor effectivness,essentially reducing mechs to a single "lifebar" the armor value of the most critical locations.

Table top uses a heat building mechanic as means of reducing damage output over time.This is distinctly seperate from heat penalties.The heat capacity is an artificial limiting mechanic that keeps damage outputs lower.MWo only uses this mechanic to limit damage output.

In conclusion it seem to be that MWo needs more supporting mechanics for the armor system.And they need to be appropriate to the spirit of the game play experience.

[Varent]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 23 December 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Gauss needs 3 seconds to cooldown and 1 second to load and 750 range
LB10XAC needs 12 damage
small las 110 range
lgplslas 7.5 heat and 11 damage and 0.4 duration
mdplslas 1.5 weight 4 heat 0.4 duration
SRMs need 2.5 damage
PPC needs 9 heat 10 damage 540 range
ERPPC needs 13.5 heat 10 damage 750 range
mdlasers need 3.5 heat
lglasers need 6 heat
erlglasers need 8 heat
laser maximum without ghost heat= 3, and not 2


this would give a sense to mainly srm mechs and mainly lasers mechs

actually we have good mixed mechs and good ballistic only mechs.
laser only and missile only mechs are weak today.

if you think that erppc or pulse lasers balanced............think 1 second about how many mechs go around using ERPPCs or large pulse lasers..........and compare to how many mechs use ac 10 ac 20 ac 2 and ac 5

Id say weapons are pretty balanced overall honestly. Hit recognition needs work though obviously.

[SerratedBlaze]

Jumping on the boat here,
-SRMS are fine damage wise when the hit detection is fixed, though SSRMS will probably need a damage reduction in the future.
-SLas long range up to 185, possibly .5 more heat to compinsate
-Pulse lasers same damage as normal version, Fewer tons, same range and heat. (more range for SPL)
-ECM limitiations
-NARC rework
-Remove instant convergence so there are fewer pinpoint alphas.

and maybe move PPCs to their own ghost heat category with only 1 weapon and a smaller penalty, up LL category to 3. Less alpha with PPC unless its a last ditch effort, the cooldown is still long enough that three can be fired .5 to 1sec apart for good dps. Or arcing damage.

[Sandpit]

Really? a fourth thread on the front page for weapons balance? This couldn't have been posted here...........?

http://mwomercs.com/...weapon-balance/
http://mwomercs.com/...t-fire-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...eds-to-be-said/
http://mwomercs.com/...w-with-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...rs-misslewaste/


Seriously guys. Don't you think it's ridiculous that players have to weed through 50 different threads all talking about the exact same thing to try and post their ideas and thoughts on it? Not to mention new players trying to jsut FIND information.....

[Varent]

then feel free to make yet another post consolidating all of the information?

lol...

wich no one will read because its too long to read through it all.

Edited by Varent, 24 December 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 24 December 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

wich no one will read because its too long to read through it all.

Which is exactly what we have now.

[nemesis271989]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 23 December 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Gauss needs 3 seconds to cooldown and 1 second to load and 750 range
LB10XAC needs 12 damage
small las 110 range
lgplslas 7.5 heat and 11 damage and 0.4 duration
mdplslas 1.5 weight 4 heat 0.4 duration
SRMs need 2.5 damage
PPC needs 9 heat 10 damage 540 range
ERPPC needs 13.5 heat 10 damage 750 range
mdlasers need 3.5 heat
lglasers need 6 heat
erlglasers need 8 heat
laser maximum without ghost heat= 3, and not 2


this would give a sense to mainly srm mechs and mainly lasers mechs

actually we have good mixed mechs and good ballistic only mechs.
laser only and missile only mechs are weak today.

if you think that erppc or pulse lasers balanced............think 1 second about how many mechs go around using ERPPCs or large pulse lasers..........and compare to how many mechs use ac 10 ac 20 ac 2 and ac 5

How about to just add scatter to auto-cannons?
PGI already figured out how to code scatter for LBX-10 pellets, so it could be applied to auto-cannons.
More you shoot more scatter applied? No scatter for PPCs

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 24 December 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Which is exactly what we have now.

your reading this proves this is wrong.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 24 December 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

then feel free to make yet another post consolidating all of the information?

lol...

wich no one will read because its too long to read through it all.

All the is necessary is for the reader to read the first post, and maybe the last page to see the direction of the discussion if the topic is more than a few pages. Oddly enough, both of you are right, Mods could combine like threads... If their workload permits mind you.

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 24 December 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

your reading this proves this is wrong.

I didn't read any of it. I posted on it. I didn't read it because it's the exact same thing cluttering up the forums as the 500 other threads. If you guys can disregard the CoC and continue duplicating threads I'll continue pointing out that's it's ridiculous.


http://mwomercs.com/...t-fire-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...w-with-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...rs-misslewaste/
http://mwomercs.com/...weapon-balance/
http://mwomercs.com/...r-jumpjet-ppcs/
http://mwomercs.com/...27-gauss-rifle/
http://mwomercs.com/...-of-ac-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...vs-ecm-balance/
http://mwomercs.com/...-jump-ppc-jump/

That's without even doing a search, just looking at the front page

Edited by Sandpit, 24 December 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Sandpit, on 24 December 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

I didn't read any of it. I posted on it. I didn't read it because it's the exact same thing cluttering up the forums as the 500 other threads. If you guys can disregard the CoC and continue duplicating threads I'll continue pointing out that's it's ridiculous.


http://mwomercs.com/...t-fire-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...w-with-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...rs-misslewaste/
http://mwomercs.com/...weapon-balance/
http://mwomercs.com/...r-jumpjet-ppcs/
http://mwomercs.com/...27-gauss-rifle/
http://mwomercs.com/...-of-ac-weapons/
http://mwomercs.com/...vs-ecm-balance/
http://mwomercs.com/...-jump-ppc-jump/

That's without even doing a search, just looking at the front page

Indeed...redundancy is rampant on these forums.

Sometimes one time is simply not enough...

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 24 December 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[Sandpit]

f you notice? In all of the "op, broken, up, etc." threads? It's the same 20 or so players posting the same exact posts over and over and over and over again, with a few new players here and there once in a while giving their opinions.

PGI, please just know that not everyone (and judging by just about every single poll these players posting this kinda stuff have ever posted) agrees that the isn't balanced

Lasers = good place right now
ballistics = good place right now
heat = good place right now
SRMs = could use a look at hit registration

The game, overall, is very well-balanced at the moment. Please do not continue implementing easy buttons for those that simply cannot or will not adjust. Those of us that actually look for a challenging game appreciate where the game is now.