99 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Noesis, on 24 December 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

How convenient an interpretation of that content for you.

But of course no-one elses contribution is therefore of notable constructive content if in opposition despite the fallacies you choose to continue to spew out that people aren't trying to engage in a sensible dialogue with you.

And yet you as well as most individuals don't deny the dominance of ballistic weaponry. Thus denying the opportunity for other play styles to be as viable or competent. The very recognition of the lack of gaming balance.

I would say alot of people use ballistic weapons. They are popular. Mostly because people can do alot of damage with them and get the last hit easily (on many of them)

That does not mean every weapon does not have its use and function and role.

Other play styles are competent and viable, you just may not do as much damage on them or some people might not have the same amount of fun (because they dont accept the role).


Of sidenote, you amuse me Noesis. Ill look foreward to seeing you in game to see what actual skill you are and how it compares to the fallacious facts you attempt to put forth.

Edited by Varent, 24 December 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[YueFei]

Varent, on 24 December 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I would say alot of people use ballistic weapons. They are popular. Mostly because people can do alot of damage with them and get the last hit easily (on many of them)

That does not mean every weapon does not have its use and function and role.

Other play styles are competent and viable, you just may not do as much damage on them or some people might not have the same amount of fun (because they dont accept the role).

Yeah, a simple way to break this down is to look at what you get for what you pay in tonnage and crits. With an AC10, you commit 12 tons + ammunition. Folks keep talking about having to add heatsinks to go with your energy weapons, and while you do kind of have to, you don't need to go crazy adding heat sinks... you get 10 free heatsinks with your engine anyway. A PPC weights 7 tons and also deals 10 damage in one shot. If an AC10 user manages to catch the PPC user at a bad spot and pound away with his AC10s, yeah he'll have an advantage, less heat, and faster weapon cycle time. But the PPC is only 7 tons. Even if you add a few heatsinks, you still have extra tonnage left over to shove in a bigger engine, so you can go faster than the AC10 user. And then a skilled pilot can use his superior speed to make sure engagements only happen on his terms. The PPC also outranges the AC10, so if you can peek and shoot in less than 2.5 seconds (AC10 recycle time), and do it from ~540 meters, the PPC user will have the advantage (AC10 max range 450, so it'll suffer damage fall-off).

If the AC10 user can stick close to cover, conceal his approach, and attack from an angle where he can use his superior heat efficiency and rate-of-fire, he'll win. But then he deserves to win.

Each weapon has an advantage over the other one depending on the situation. That's one thing many players fail to grasp. It's not only about the numbers (even though the numbers do matter), it's about logic and tactics.

[Varent]

YueFei, on 24 December 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Yeah, a simple way to break this down is to look at what you get for what you pay in tonnage and crits. With an AC10, you commit 12 tons + ammunition. Folks keep talking about having to add heatsinks to go with your energy weapons, and while you do kind of have to, you don't need to go crazy adding heat sinks... you get 10 free heatsinks with your engine anyway. A PPC weights 7 tons and also deals 10 damage in one shot. If an AC10 user manages to catch the PPC user at a bad spot and pound away with his AC10s, yeah he'll have an advantage, less heat, and faster weapon cycle time. But the PPC is only 7 tons. Even if you add a few heatsinks, you still have extra tonnage left over to shove in a bigger engine, so you can go faster than the AC10 user. And then a skilled pilot can use his superior speed to make sure engagements only happen on his terms. The PPC also outranges the AC10, so if you can peek and shoot in less than 2.5 seconds (AC10 recycle time), and do it from ~540 meters, the PPC user will have the advantage (AC10 max range 450, so it'll suffer damage fall-off).

If the AC10 user can stick close to cover, conceal his approach, and attack from an angle where he can use his superior heat efficiency and rate-of-fire, he'll win. But then he deserves to win.

Each weapon has an advantage over the other one depending on the situation. That's one thing many players fail to grasp. It's not only about the numbers (even though the numbers do matter), it's about logic and tactics.

This.

[Effectz]

Varent, on 24 December 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Of sidenote, you amuse me Noesis. Ill look foreward to seeing you in game to see what actual skill you are and how it compares to the fallacious facts you attempt to put forth.

Make sure you bring those support lasers Noesis.

[MischiefSC]

SRMs literally don't work. They don't register hitting targets.

NARC exists because apparently having something useless is important for atmosphere.

Not all weapons HAVE to be balanced - sometimes the balance is in availability to mount them, AC20s being a great example.

Pinpoint damage + convergence is and will forever be a problem. Make all ACs+PPCs DOT of 0.3 to 0.5 seconds, leave Gauss. This fixes pretty much everything. It may, in fact, cure the common cold it's so simple and effective. Poptarting still works but is less accurate. Mobility and smaller size in smaller/faster mechs slightly more useful. Would do more to balance than game than literally every other conceivable thing and would take less than an hour to do. More like 20 minutes if someone is reasonably familiar with the weapons.xml for the game, which I assume they are.

Without a fix for pinpoint + convergence clan tech, new mech designs that are AC-heavy, they'll always be an issue. Forever. Why not just fix it?

ECM is {Scrap}, has always been {Scrap} and will always be {Scrap}. I've given up on information warfare I suspect the concept just doesn't appeal to PGI leadership. That's fine, just accept that it's {Scrap} and if you want to play MW:O sometimes you need to put a couple spoonfuls of {Scrap} on your plate. Abandon all hope on that one, sometimes a developer just likes a bad idea or at least doesn't care about it enough to fix it. At least ECM has been nerfed enough with BAP and TAG that it's not truly terrible anymore, it's just.... I dunno. Apathetic.

If playing MW:O doesn't slap you across the mouth with missed opportunities to make something truly incredible every single time you load it up then you're not even trying to pay attention. After a while you just get used to it and play a little from time to time anyway. Maybe you'll spend a decent amount of money before you get burned (Overlord) and then never ever ever spend money on the game again. This is the customer lifecycle that's been designed for the game, only time will tell if it's a viable business model.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Everything is for the most part okay, with exception of course being SRM's...as they are presently they are virtually useless.

[anonymous161]

srms I think is the major balance issue in the game right now honestly.

As for flamer I've never had to fear it, if they get close enough to even use it, they are likely gonna get scraped anyways. I've never been shut down from it nor have I ever used it. It's worthless.

I think the tc simply is so used to it that he thinks thats how the weapons should be...no.

[Varent]

xMEPHISTOx, on 24 December 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Everything is for the most part okay, with exception of course being SRM's...as they are presently they are virtually useless.

the weapon itself is fine. its the hit detection thats an issue.

[Noesis]

Varent, on 24 December 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Of sidenote, you amuse me Noesis. Ill look foreward to seeing you in game to see what actual skill you are and how it compares to the fallacious facts you attempt to put forth.

How sad.

Shame you lack the comprehension that my study already included actual personal stats applied over 1000's of games that is already representative of my skill.

And I wasn't aware people had written a text about my MWO piloting skills.

Happy to see you dirt side, but I don't need it for my integrity, even if you feel it necessary. But if you use one game as a effective sample to form a Strawman opinion it is hardly suprising you have formed the above missguided opinions.

[Varent]

Noesis, on 24 December 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

How sad.

Shame you lack the comprehension that my study already included actual personal stats applied over 1000's of games that is already representative of my skill.

And I wasn't aware people had written a text about my MWO piloting skills.

Happy to see you dirt side, but I don't need it for my integrity, even if you feel it necessary. But if you use one game as a effective sample to form a Strawman opinion it is hardly suprising you have formed the above missguided opinions.

Let me summarize.

"Kay...."

[Mycrus]

Sandpit, on 23 December 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'm glad someone finally got the nerve to post on this

I'm glad someone finally pointed this out.

[Lyoto Machida]

I'm wondering if a lot of this debate would be alleviated if PGI WOULD JUST MAKE STATS PUBLIC!!! YES...I'M YELLING THIS WHILE USING COMIC SANS.

That would go against their whole thing of not communicating though...

For those that ask why, well...you'd actually know who the top players are and their weapons of choice. Until then, I'll keep enjoying this AC meta, since I like to use ACs...which I suspect Varent does as well, based on his stance. Unlike him it seems, I also like to use all the weapon types in the game...including "support" lasers and LRMs. Embarrassingly enough, I've spent over a day in the Awesome 8R, while only of two of my other 50+ mechs even break the double digit hour mark (and those two Atlases don't even combine to exceed the total seat time in the AWE-8R). I've managed to shift my LRM fetish over to the BLR-1S and am learning how to be an effective poptart.

I miss the days of my 6 LL Stalker and miss going against 6 PPC Stalkers, Splat/Streakcats, Swaybacks and other mechs we don't see on the field anymore due to this ghost heat nonsense.

But I digress...my point is that I like to use all weapons in the game and this reflects my general outlook in life...being a jack of all trades instead of elite at one thing (too boring). I just know that they're not balanced at this time for the average user and this is what causes some new players to be driven away from the game.

That and the sometimes garbage matchmaking...

My wish is for all three weapon types to be useful in the game, instead of one type dominating. Until we get SRMs back on track and the pinpoint convergence issue solved somehow, I guess it will be this long range, direct fire meta that we have now.

Oh, and a proper heat system with penalties needs to be installed.

MischiefSC, on 24 December 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

NARC exists because apparently having something useless is important for atmosphere.

Wrong! That's what the command console is for...

Edited by Lyoto Machida, 24 December 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Varent]

Lyoto Machida, on 24 December 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

For those that ask why, well...you'd actually know who the top players are and their weapons of choice. Until then, I'll keep enjoying this AC meta, since I like to use ACs...which I suspect Varent does as well, based on his stance. Unlike him it seems, I also like to use all the weapon types in the game...including "support" lasers and LRMs. Embarrassingly enough, I've spent over a day in the Awesome 8R, while only of two of my other 50+ mechs even break the double digit hour mark (and those two Atlases don't even combine to exceed the total seat time in the AWE-8R). I've managed to shift my LRM fetish over to the BLR-1S and am learning how to be an effective poptart.

I hate it when people assume I do one thing because of my stance. Every day I login I make a point to go through and use every hero mech I have (which I have alot of of every weight and style). The only thing I admit I dont do much of anymore is lrm boating.

That said I play all weight classes and use (almost) all weapons.

[Sandpit]

f you notice? In all of the "op, broken, up, etc." threads? It's the same 20 or so players posting the same exact posts over and over and over and over again, with a few new players here and there once in a while giving their opinions.

PGI, please just know that not everyone (and judging by just about every single poll these players posting this kinda stuff have ever posted) agrees that the isn't balanced

Lasers = good place right now
ballistics = good place right now
heat = good place right now
SRMs = could use a look at hit registration

The game, overall, is very well-balanced at the moment. Please do not continue implementing easy buttons for those that simply cannot or will not adjust. Those of us that actually look for a challenging game appreciate where the game is now.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Sandpit, on 25 December 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

f you notice? In all of the "op, broken, up, etc." threads? It's the same 20 or so players posting the same exact posts over and over and over and over again, with a few new players here and there once in a while giving their opinions.

PGI, please just know that not everyone (and judging by just about every single poll these players posting this kinda stuff have ever posted) agrees that the isn't balanced

Lasers = good place right now
ballistics = good place right now
heat = good place right now
SRMs = could use a look at hit registration

The game, overall, is very well-balanced at the moment. Please do not continue implementing easy buttons for those that simply cannot or will not adjust. Those of us that actually look for a challenging game appreciate where the game is now.

Hmm... seen this one before.

Oh well

[Sandpit]

Praetor Shepard, on 25 December 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Hmm... seen this one before.

Oh well

Probably in one of the exact same threads talking about the exact same thing. If everyone else can duplicate post I suppose I cna as well
I'm just going to copy and paste my responses into every duplicate thread. No need for me to come up with an original response to each individual thread since they're all talking about the EXACT SAME THING

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 25 December 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

f you notice? In all of the "op, broken, up, etc." threads? It's the same 20 or so players posting the same exact posts over and over and over and over again, with a few new players here and there once in a while giving their opinions.

PGI, please just know that not everyone (and judging by just about every single poll these players posting this kinda stuff have ever posted) agrees that the isn't balanced

Lasers = good place right now
ballistics = good place right now
heat = good place right now
SRMs = could use a look at hit registration

The game, overall, is very well-balanced at the moment. Please do not continue implementing easy buttons for those that simply cannot or will not adjust. Those of us that actually look for a challenging game appreciate where the game is now.

Heat is not working as intended. If it were I could Fire my Jager40 all game with no worry of heat.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Quote

Because It Needs To Be Said...

Over, and over, and over again...

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Sandpit, on 25 December 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Probably in one of the exact same threads talking about the exact same thing. If everyone else can duplicate post I suppose I cna as well
I'm just going to copy and paste my responses into every duplicate thread. No need for me to come up with an original response to each individual thread since they're all talking about the EXACT SAME THING

Spoiler

We need some moderating then, including more pinned threads on specific topics...

[Sandpit]

Praetor Shepard, on 25 December 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Spoiler

We need some moderating then, including more pinned threads on specific topics...

agreed