104 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

zudukai, on 25 January 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

so nobody showed up this week, is the 30th the only day that some wolves are free? who else wants to get on teamspeak?

i want to gather the troops so we can start, but nobody is giving any solid commitment.

is there a strana mechty TS3 server?

you can find me most often in Comstar NA, if you have any other arrangement questions and do not want to post here.

I am really interested and if you can provide us a date (and maybe agree on the last points of Zellbrigen) we can relay it to our units

I can be found usually in the ComStar EU server, italian channel, or NGNG Outreach server, Clan Wolf channel (close to the bottom).

Edited by CyclonerM, 25 January 2014 - 05:35 AM.

[CoffiNail]

CGB was not aware something was going on. I can usually be contacted off the NGNG TS.

[zudukai]

CyclonerM, on 21 January 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

I am totally fine with restrictions on pinpoint damage. Maybe could we just add an additional 20 max pinpoint damage ?

i would like to begin with 25 points max, possibly changeing this later, or bidding/agreeing on different rules but having 25 as the default.

Quote

Add of course the classic Zellbrigen rules. What do we do about legging? I know we have different approaches to it; in my Clan we prefere not to leg our opponent, especially lights, so we always aim to CT. What about headshots as well? I would not like being headshotted by an AC20 shot at 500 m..

defending your mech is your job and i think it is a matter of skill to avoid or mitigate damage, so under default rules i think it is fair to both headshot and leg, but never to leave your opponent behind.

Quote

Another point is the Circle of Equals. Do we fight on the whole map as the Nova Cats seem to prefere (i would like it as well, to make more tactics viable, of course sniping the whole time among the buildinds may not be funny for the other one) or a smaller area, a bowl for example?

duelists decide on location based on bidding if i recall correctly, since the map is not under our control then this would translate into grid or position areas, possibly a 9x9 or 4x4 square depending on the map, this one is difficult to simplify because others may maneuver into the crossfire and interfere with other duelists.

Quote

On it depend the restrictions: in a mostly short range fire we may ban streaks while in a fight which starts at bigger range before closing in we might allow no more than a launcher...

I also have a final suggestion: it is hazardous but could be fun and at the same time moretrue to the lore: we do not ban TAG, ECM, Streaks or artillery modules but if a warrior uses one of them the other team's commander can declare a Grand Melee and trow out Zellbrigen or just allowing warriors to fight the bold warrior with every means without worrying about honor.

It could be a total mess or a great fun. However, i do not think many of us would think about bringing such equipment with the purpose of breaking Zellbrigen. But hey, it happened with Aidan Pryde..

i do not think airstrikes are tools that should be used in honorable duels, TAG and ECM are negotiable, as are any weapon, like streaks.

just speculating here, but if a duelist feels cutdown perhaps the challenger can bid away weapons in some relation to how heavy the player is, vs how light the challenger is.

is anyone available this monday? or wednesday?

[Lucky Moniker]

i personally feel like adding a alpha restriction as being a little over the top, though i can completely understand why, it is not any fun to be one shot by an ac 40. but the entire point of Zellbriggen is to fight with Honor, and an ac 40 brings no honor at all. i do not plan on bringing any cheese personally, but you can bring mechs just as scary as an ac 40 while not have too strong of an alpha.
that and a hunchie 4P loaded up with med lasers (a gimped Nova if you will) would not be allowed by these restrictions, which is to say a Nova would be even more banned, which does not make too much sense to me.

but i completely understand and will abide by those rules if that is what you choose, this is your show to run

[CoffiNail]

Rules of Zellbrigen.

No hiding or moving out of the circle of equals or Trial area. You are to show the skill of your training and prowess of your genes. *Should usage of cover to reload, quick cool down, get a more improved shot upon your enemy be allowed?

The engagement of a shutdown mech that you are not dueling is a violation of zellbrigen. (Warriors getting ready to first engage). If a warrior shuts down from overheating it is perceived the lack of skill in their heat management abilities and they are still a valid target. A warrior who calls for hegira (surrender with some honour intact) and shuts down shall not be fired upon, this is a grave breach of the rede of combat, just as it would be for the shut down warrior to fire upon the warrior who was the victor.

Rear shooting a mech is valid if it is presented to you during the middle of combat or if you can maneuver yourself into position to fire upon the rear of a mech during combat. It is not allowed before a batchall has been issued or when a mech has declared hegira.

Legging is a quick way to dispose of your target at times, or it can give you a tactical advantage. There is no loss of honour for shooting at the legs.

Headshots are acceptable. They do give the loss of a MechWarrior but they also dispatch your opponent in a quick manner, leaving the rest of the chassis intact for isorla.

All is fair in a Trial. The objective is to win. The more honour you can amount, the better your chances are to qualify for a trial of bloodright.

Batchall (BATtle CHALLenge)
Batchall are the ritual in which one warrior or commander challenges another to a trial of combat. It is used to issue a challenge on the battlefield to ones opponent.

ie: I am MechWarrior Jake, I pilot the Hellbringer in grid G5-center. I challenge the Warrior in the Summoner to a duel of Warriors. Let no one interfere in this most sacred right.

It can also be used in a unit sense with a commander issuing a batchall to another commander.

Ritual of Bidding

Bidding in the Clans is the process to bring only the necessary force needed to complete an objective. This eliminates the need for waste of life and material vs an all out assault with all forces, which guarantees a victory, but not an honourable one. The trials also take place away from any civilized land, in a place picked by the defender.


This is mostly what I have so far.

[CoffiNail]

Also...

Rede of Combat -- Nicholas Kerensky, 2824

-True Warriors fight to the death, with all at risk.

-Clan Warriors see the balance that battle provides, the give and take of machinery, skill, and prowess. By maintaining and mastering this balance, a Warrior achieves the depth that honor can provide.

-Waste is a disservice to our people. A Warrior is best served by taking only the minimal force needed to achieve victory. This is the reason for the Batchall, the need for bidding.

-So that none shall perish needlessly at the hands of cowards in battle as did my younger brother and my father's greatest friend, our people will follow the path of great warriors of the past. We shall face our foes one-on-one, facing each other eye to eye, as real Warriors should.

-The burden of command is not worn lightly to our warrior caste. Field commanders must treat the lives of those under their command as their own. The edicts of waste applies not to just material, but to lives as well.

-The terms of the Batchall, the dictates of military action, are the goals of the field commanders. Achieving other victories reaps only greater honour to those who walk the Trials and lives of Warriors of the Clans.

Edited by CoffiNail, 26 January 2014 - 12:41 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Lucky Moniker, on 25 January 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

i personally feel like adding a alpha restriction as being a little over the top, though i can completely understand why, it is not any fun to be one shot by an ac 40. but the entire point of Zellbriggen is to fight with Honor, and an ac 40 brings no honor at all. i do not plan on bringing any cheese personally, but you can bring mechs just as scary as an ac 40 while not have too strong of an alpha.
that and a hunchie 4P loaded up with med lasers (a gimped Nova if you will) would not be allowed by these restrictions, which is to say a Nova would be even more banned, which does not make too much sense to me.

but i completely understand and will abide by those rules if that is what you choose, this is your show to run

In fact i said pinpoint damage - a 4P boating lasers is fine because its pilot needs skill to place the shots on the intended targets. Once i faced in a duel an opponent bringing this very 'Mech and he was not able to land correctly his shots and he ended up washing my 'Mech and barely scratching my armor.

@Coffinail: the rules may need to adjusted to fit with the games.

-Headshots: in the lore high pinpoint damage is something not often heard off; i mean, there are other variables (targeting computer, movement penalty and dice rolls if we refer to the TT). I fear it would be too easy to just aim carefully and fire 2 PPCs and an UAC/5 to your opponent's head when he is closing in. Matters of seconds. Not quite fun.. Maybe we can just not allow headshots on the first volley, quiaff?

-Legging: in the novels legging is used, ok, bui think in MechWarrior games it is too easy to leg your opponent. From what i undestand of the novels the skill of a MechWarrior is seen in placing all his shots on their intended targets (took from the TT i would say) while we have instantaneous convergence. In seconds you could leg your opponent AND destroy his ammo before he has a chance to spend it. Our 'Mechs have no free CASE and as i said earlier being legged and killed in seconds by an AC boat is not much fun.

-TAG and ECM afaik are usually banned.

Tomorrow i could be there, but we have to set a time which allowes warriors from the Euro timezone to join you in the fight..

Edited by CyclonerM, 26 January 2014 - 01:48 AM.

[CoffiNail]

CyclonerM, on 26 January 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

In fact i said pinpoint damage - a 4P boating lasers is fine because its pilot needs skill to place the shots on the intended targets. Once i faced in a duel an opponent bringing this very 'Mech and he was not able to land correctly his shots and he ended up washing my 'Mech and barely scratching my armor.

@Coffinail: the rules may need to adjusted to fit with the games.

We have already ajusted our rules of Zellbrigen to fit with MWO.

Quote

-Headshots: in the lore high pinpoint damage is something not often heard off; i mean, there are other variables (targeting computer, movement penalty and dice rolls if we refer to the TT). I fear it would be too easy to just aim carefully and fire 2 PPCs and an UAC/5 to your opponent's head when he is closing in. Matters of seconds. Not quite fun.. Maybe we can just not allow headshots on the first volley, quiaff?

Neg. The way I see it, you should be ready the moment the batchall is issued, or even before, as soon as you are in the drop.
If you are striding straight on, and your opponent can land a full salvo directly into your cockpit. You were not taking the current combat seriously and have let your guard down. A warrior must be prepared at all times, quiaff?

I am but one warriors in this discussion though, let the gathered conclave of this chatterweb thread let know their opinions.

Quote

-Legging: in the novels legging is used, ok, bui think in MechWarrior games it is too easy to leg your opponent. From what i undestand of the novels the skill of a MechWarrior is seen in placing all his shots on their intended targets (took from the TT i would say) while we have instantaneous convergence. In seconds you could leg your opponent AND destroy his ammo before he has a chance to spend it. Our 'Mechs have no free CASE and as i said earlier being legged and killed in seconds by an AC boat is not much fun.

-TAG and ECM afaik are usually banned.

Tomorrow i could be there, but we have to set a time which allowes warriors from the Euro timezone to join you in the fight..

Legging with the Ghost Bears is acceptable. It is a Warriors choice to lower the armour ratings on their Inner Sphere chassis's legs. As well to place the ammo in those spots. If we notice a creep of legging issues during the course of initial Zellbrigen duels, perhaps we can adjust this rule.

Aff, TAG, ECM and NARC for MWO would need to be disallowed. In a novel setting, I see a warrior in a duel having TAG, NARC switched to just his missile's guidance frequency. We do not have that ability in game. ECM interferes with other's duels potentially, and therefor violates the Rede.

[CyclonerM]

CoffiNail, on 26 January 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Neg. The way I see it, you should be ready the moment the batchall is issued, or even before, as soon as you are in the drop.
If you are striding straight on, and your opponent can land a full salvo directly into your cockpit. You were not taking the current combat seriously and have let your guard down. A warrior must be prepared at all times, quiaff?

Aff. A warrior must be prepared after he has challenged his opponent or has accepted a challenge. I do not know how you do Trials in the Bears, though, because our duels are fought in a very small area with a countdown to start it. Thus, it would be very easy to aim to the head and land a full alpha on it at the start and thus, we have forbidden it.

Quote

I am but one warriors in this discussion though, let the gathered conclave of this chatterweb thread let know their opinions.

True, but i do not want it to take too much or this event might never happen.

Quote

Legging with the Ghost Bears is acceptable. It is a Warriors choice to lower the armour ratings on their Inner Sphere chassis's legs. As well to place the ammo in those spots. If we notice a creep of legging issues during the course of initial Zellbrigen duels, perhaps we can adjust this rule.

Let us hear other opinions and see how these duels will be fought.

[Lucky Moniker]

CyclonerM, on 26 January 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Aff. A warrior must be prepared after he has challenged his opponent or has accepted a challenge. I do not know how you do Trials in the Bears, though, because our duels are fought in a very small area with a countdown to start it. Thus, it would be very easy to aim to the head and land a full alpha on it at the start and thus, we have forbidden it.

we start shut down and faced away from one another. So you do not have any time to line up a shot before it begins.

[CyclonerM]

Lucky Moniker, on 26 January 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

we start shut down and faced away from one another. So you do not have any time to line up a shot before it begins.

Ah, sounds much "Far West" lol.

We start powered up facing each other, so..

[Pariah Devalis]

We start powered up facing away from one another. Happy medium, quiaff?

[CyclonerM]

Pariah Devalis, on 26 January 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

We start powered up facing away from one another. Happy medium, quiaff?

Aff!

[zudukai]

ok good ideas gents, is anyone planning on dueling tonight?

[CyclonerM]

zudukai, on 27 January 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

ok good ideas gents, is anyone planning on dueling tonight?

I would love to , not sure about your timezone but i may have to drop with some mates on MWLL this evening.. But try to contact the Nova Cats, they are probably interested!

[zudukai]

CyclonerM, on 27 January 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

I would love to , not sure about your timezone but i may have to drop with some mates on MWLL this evening.. But try to contact the Nova Cats, they are probably interested!

ok, where might i find them?

[CyclonerM]

zudukai, on 27 January 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

ok, where might i find them?

novacat.teamspeak3.com
Well if there are enough people i could participate and bring a former Wolf.

Edited by CyclonerM, 27 January 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[zudukai]

you do not need a whole 12, we just need to find 24 players.

[CyclonerM]

zudukai, on 27 January 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

you do not need a whole 12, we just need to find 24 players.

So you are telling me we do not need 12 players but only 24?

However, i am parked at the bottom of the NGNG server, Clan Wolf channel. Poke me if you need me

Edited by CyclonerM, 27 January 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[zudukai]

CyclonerM, on 27 January 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

So you are telling me we do not need 12 players but only 24?

However, i am parked at the bottom of the NGNG server, Clan Wolf channel. Poke me if you need me

yes, 12 wolves, 24 players, i am sure if we get a star or so from everyone we will have more then enough.