242 replies to this topic

[jper4]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 03 January 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Seen Myomes today in a trenchbucket. He died first. Maybe trying to prove his point?

yeah had Myomes on my team a couple of times in a treb 7k yesterday. did about 250-300ish dmg the first time and discoed the second when the last one left and all weapons blown off, think sub 100 dmg, which can happen to any mech. we lost both matches. thought i recognized the name so i decided to find this post to be sure since i thought it was odd to see Myomes in a medium mech of uselessness.

[Myomes]

CapperDeluxe, on 02 January 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

Its not so much the meta of the weapons that cause mediums to seem to underperform, but that the matchmaker tends to match them up with assaults and heavies, so you can end up with 200 or 300 ton differences which is unfairly stacking the cards against medium mechs.  I still run my mediums occasionally as they are my favorite class, but they are definitely the underdogs until the tonnage limits are introduced.

so you admit that tonnage makes in difference in how much armor and weapons are fielded per side.

[Myomes]

IraqiWalker, on 04 January 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

You won't need flanking maneuvers to annihilate a formation like that.

Do you know what I would need to completely annihilate that entire assault force? 5 commando 2Ds(any other variant can work, but I have a thing for ECM), and one LRM boat. Not even joking, each one with 1 arty,1 airstrike, and 1 UAV. the artys and airstrikes will pound your assaults fast for tons of damage, I can do over 120kph while strapping an ERPPC or ERLL to the lights and peel those mechs open like a banana without them catching me. Once the formation breaks because one or two of the assaults suffered critical existence failure from 5 ERPPCs (or LLs) to the face/CT. I will run one of the commandos in (don't care if they die at this point) launch a UAV that your assaults can hit because they don't bend that way, and watch the LRM boat roastify what's left.

1200 tons turned to scrap, by 185 tons (going with CAT A1 for LRM boat here) could upgrade to a Stalker or Battlemaster LRM boat and win faster. I won't even need good pilots for this, they don't need to hold a formation or anything like that. They don't even need teamspeak for this. The whole thing can be coordinated within the start screen. They just need to run and shoot, plus throwing an arty or airstrike every once in a while.

Also, keep in mind that assaults are really slow, by the time they get to the halfway point on the map it's already been 5 minutes. On the other hand, anything lighter than them can out-kite them and bring on the hurt with proper focused fire in a concave formation, while this spherical formation of yours struggles because they can only apply at max 30% of their firepower at any point in time.

Not forgetting that it's about 4 times harder for the assaults to hit a light mech, while it's about 4 times easier for the lights to hit an assault with surgical precision.

a proper formation isnt a football quarterback back humping formation. Standing that close together is pretty stupid. I also dont understand how you can get "max 30%" damage from a three groups of four operating in concert in a triangle formation. Not only can you get far above that, but you the firing arcs cover each other so that it's easily possible for 100% to fire on any given target that pops into view.

Edited by Myomes, 05 January 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[Grey Black]

Wait, mediums are suboptimal? Then why am I always getting 2+ kills and 500+ damage whenever I take out my Shadow Hawk 2D2?

[Myomes]

kill vulture and SRM/LRM/laser tickling enemy armor doesn't = optimal. I can run straight into enemies and alpha MLs and SRM all day long and get over 500 easily within 2 minutes.

[Smitti]

Myomes, on 05 January 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

so you admit that tonnage makes in difference in how much armor and weapons are fielded per side.

Of course it makes a frakking difference. What you fail to seem to understand is the flexibility and agility of a medium, and the ability to respond accordingly to situations that flexibility provides. So what if you can carry 550-600 points of armour all-up? A good medium pilot will still core your lumbering arse.

Myomes, on 05 January 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I can run straight into enemies and alpha MLs and SRM all day long and get over 500 easily within 2 minutes.

It's that kind of thinking that IS a liability to a team and will usually turn your atlas or awesome to scrap in short order. Your in-game efforts have been observed enough by others (myself and regular lancemates included) to conclude you cannot back your arguments up either.

Nice sig btw, i've decided you are the subject of your own contempt, behaving in the fashion you find "most pitiable and least respectable". Keep rockin' that trashbucket and dropping those **** jokes.

Good day to you sir, I do so hope i end up on the opposite team again sometime soon.

[Kjudoon]

Dazzer, on 27 December 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Hello all,

Today while PUG-íng I was told at the start of the match that my Medium Mech (Hunchback 4P) was not welcome in the team. That I should play a heavy or assault or a light.

Then that my medium was in fact a liability to the team.

Has any one else had this please ? its was rather nasty.

This was obviously spoken by those who do not understand the power of a Medium. I love my SDH and KTOs and have achieved many 3+ kill games in them... usually versus assault and heavy mechs too because I know how to pilot them and my role. I am often one of the last if not the last mech moving at the end of the match in a ROFLstomp, too often hearing the 'defeat' music with my death long after those same arrogant assaults have died and are trying to give me directions or mocking my loadout or piloting from the grave. I've been told many times 4 LRM5s are worthless on the battlefield... right up to the point they accuse me of cheating or being a coward a la post mortem. So let them rage. Know your mech. Know your role. Let the meta freaks laugh right up to the point where you get that 'lucky' kill. They're dead and you're not. Let that be your testamony.

As for those who persist in this ignorance on the effectiveness of Mediums, I can only say this; this bravado is short lived for with the upcoming changes in tonnage limits is going to make many an assault a liability on the field when you can have 2 mechs for the price of one.

Edited by Kjudoon, 05 January 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Grey Black, on 05 January 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Wait, mediums are suboptimal? Then why am I always getting 2+ kills and 500+ damage whenever I take out my Shadow Hawk 2D2?

Wait till they have to deal with Repair and Rearm costs again that are returning with CW. Who's laughing then? Mediums will always be easier to R&R than an assault.

Edited by Kjudoon, 05 January 2014 - 01:15 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Dazzer, on 27 December 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Hello all,

Today while PUG-íng I was told at the start of the match that my Medium Mech (Hunchback 4P) was not welcome in the team. That I should play a heavy or assault or a light.

Then that my medium was in fact a liability to the team.

Has any one else had this please ? its was rather nasty.

The guy/girl was just a pointless talentless lurmboat assault jockey take no notice, however if you feel that bad about it report them

Edited by Cathy, 05 January 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Myomes]

Smittiferous, on 05 January 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Of course it makes a frakking difference. What you fail to seem to understand is the flexibility and agility of a medium, and the ability to respond accordingly to situations that flexibility provides. So what if you can carry 550-600 points of armour all-up? A good medium pilot will still core your lumbering arse.


It's that kind of thinking that IS a liability to a team and will usually turn your atlas or awesome to scrap in short order. Your in-game efforts have been observed enough by others (myself and regular lancemates included) to conclude you cannot back your arguments up either.

Nice sig btw, i've decided you are the subject of your own contempt, behaving in the fashion you find "most pitiable and least respectable". Keep rockin' that trashbucket and dropping those **** jokes.

Good day to you sir, I do so hope i end up on the opposite team again sometime soon.

1. I was talking about using a medium to suicide run for 500 points of damage in 2 minutes. 2. A medium is NOT going to deal with an assault mech one on one. It just isnt happening. Stop being delusional. 3. Prove my self contempt or quiet.

[C E Dwyer]

oldradagast, on 27 December 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

And I respect that, because those who pilot them almost surely know exactly what they are doing, which makes them dangerous.

Hey, I pilot an Awesome, so I know the feeling of "what is THAT mech doing on the battlefield?!" Hehehe...

That mech ain't that bad a mech anymore, the tweaks helped alot

[C E Dwyer]

Myomes, on 05 January 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

1. I was talking about using a medium to suicide run for 500 points of damage in 2 minutes. 2. A medium is NOT going to deal with an assault mech one on one. It just isnt happening. Stop being delusional. 3. Prove my self contempt or quiet.

They can deal with them one on one and frequently do, so can comando's, spiders, and ravens.

now if you mean dumb medium pilot stands still in front of assault then no, but I don't think you mean that..

but I'd rather have a one legged cicada on my team than an assault lurm boat

roll on lance weight limits

Edited by Cathy, 05 January 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[Smitti]

Myomes, on 05 January 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

3. Prove my self contempt or quiet.

You continuously spout your "min-max elitist metawarrior-or-bust, assaults are the master race, play only to win at all cost" rhetoric on this thread, yet in another thread I see you blowing the trumpet for medium chassis, you're continually observed piloting 'gimped' mechs that by your own logic should be considered a waste of tonnage, time and are a major disadvantage to your own team. Like i said to you, get your freaking story straight.

With that I am bowing out of this discussion. Good day to you, many happy matches to you in the future sir.

Edited by Smittiferous, 05 January 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[Myomes]

In the absence of making better choices, there are benefits to a medium. those benefits are far outweighed by an enemy team in heavier mechs with proper coordination and formation.

[1453 R]

On the subject of the OP: Medium 'Mechs are only a waste if you're a waste of a pilot. I'd far rather see a well-fitted, well-played Shadow Hawk on my time than yet another yutz who figures that each and every one of his Atlas's one hundred tons is made of solid adamantium. Each machine on the battlefield is a threat in proportion to its pilot's abilities first, its teammates' competence second, and its total tonnage third, at best.

On the subject of Myomes: Quit being a badger. An assault 'Mech does not bring double the armor and weaponry of a medium 'Mech, not without crippling itself in the engine department. Considering that most assault drivers I've seen opt for standard engines, I can generally mount three quarters of their armament on my medium 'Mechs while moving at half again their speed, if not closer to double it. What mediums sacrifice in raw mass of equipment and durability, they gain back in mobility and the ability to pick and choose where on a battlefield they wish to engage. The day your Fatlas catches my Shadow Hawk when I don't want to be caught is the day I uninstall.

And realistically, your tight-and-flawless formation of twelve heavy 'Mechs can only command a single spot on the battlefield at a time. Conquest matches must suck for you, huh? Even if you can somehow manage to maintain such tight coordination with twelve players simultaneously, then an equally well-coordinated enemy with swift elements of light/medium 'Mechs in it will be able to outmaneuver you with ludicrous ease and either cap the {Scrap} out of you or pick you apart one raid at a time. Sure, you'll get pieces of them, too - but since when, at any point in history, has an army consisted solely of its heaviest, most powerfully armed and armored unit?

[Bhelogan]

Really guys, mediums suck, and never carry their weight:


I mean really, no AC20, AC10, LBX10, AC5 or even an AC2 on that thing. There is just no way a medium can be effective....

Edited by Bhelogan, 05 January 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[Void Angel]

Myomes, on 05 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

In the absence of making better choices, there are benefits to a medium. those benefits are far outweighed by an enemy team in heavier mechs with proper coordination and formation.

Simply untrue. Mediums provide mobile firepower and harassment that simply cannot be done from a heavier chassis - even if you're running a fast Heavy. The reason is that the pure tonnage isn't the whole picture - you have to bear in mind the different movement profiles, torso twist rates, silhouette size, and other variables. They all add up in contributing to a 'mech's performance. You can't simply wave tonnage numbers around and think you've "proven" that math is on your side. The question involves factors which neither you nor I could model mathematically.

I have a buddy who has, to my certain knowledge, multiple 1000+ damage games in a shadowhawk - with the highest damage being over 1300. My KDR with my Hunchback SP is higher than any of my Assault chassis, and its win/loss is comparable to my other favored 'mechs. Every weight class, and indeed every chassis, have their own unique capabilities. A medium can harass the enemy where an assault or heavy would be dragged down and destroyed - or expose itself too much and too long for a favorable damage exchange in the first place.

This may not be apparent to you, since you joined the forums literally a month ago, and are now holding forth to other newbies on subjects you're not experienced enough to master. Regardless, your thesis is flawed and you've utterly failed to defend it.

[Myomes]

well your theory could be sound if,and only if, you have a much grander scale theater to make war in. In a fishbowl tonnage rules. I have a task for you: Find two 12 man teams who are willing to go only mediums and only assaults, either against each other or just dropping randoms. Let's see in the high Elo brackets which team has more consistent wins.

Edited by Myomes, 05 January 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[Helsbane]

A few days ago we dropped into a HPG match to find our 2H four pack were the heaviest things on our team. Our lightest unit was a Locust. When we started to encounter the enemy, we found ourselves 270 tons lighter than they were. The lightest unit on the opposing team was a Blackjack. Funny thing is, we cut the enemy team to ribbons using speed and agility.

When I solo drop, I'm often the last things standing, almost always in one of my 'Hawks. My 2H averages between 300 and 700 damage, while my 2D2 sees between 250 and 500. Kills vary in both, but as long as they fall down, I don't care who landed the last shot on them.

[Void Angel]

I don't accept "tasks" from random forum posters - much less posters who have ignored my reasoning to simply repeat their debunked claims in slightly varied language. Nice try, though. I especially liked how you invoked an unmeasurable variant to qualify your "test." Fact up, or shut up - you've trolled here long enough.