46 replies to this topic

[GRiPSViGiL]

We need to be able to disable the minimap without powering down so when you end up the last mech you can't have teammates give away your position so easily.

I have seen instances where 2 and 3 mechs positions were given away in a match.

I see this happen a lot and report it every time no matter which team it occurs to with a screenshot as it is treason and against the code of conduct. It is NOT against the code of conduct to have engaged and then evade or hide in ANY game mode we presently have. That has been confirmed multiple times by CMs: You can reference that here by looking over Egomane's final post of the thread - LINK.

Pay close attention to this statement quoted from the Post by Egomane: "If you fight to the best of your abilities and hide when there is no way for you to win anymore, that is perfectly fine."



If you are the last mech your teammates do not allow you to evade and pick your engagement. They just want you to go die so they get their mech back even though a win condition to every game mode is the timer running out with the most mechs alive. So if you are not willing to exit game and drop in a new mech you should be prepared to be in game for 15 mins every time you hit launch.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 28 December 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Escef]

The behavior you cite is already a violation of the CoC. Just report them.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd disable the minimap just for how easily it can improve one's situational awareness, or require carrying a module to have it; or even go as far as require the Command Console (the same for the full Battle Map).

So require extra equipment for extra goodies, no more freebies.

Edited by Praetor Shepard, 27 December 2013 - 07:59 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

i think if your a spectator you just shouldn't be able to see the other persons minimap

[Wintersdark]

F9.

See the fellows exact coordinates, announce them. Minimap is an ineffective way to report someones position anyways.

I'd be right with you, except for Skirmish.

Quite frankly, F*** that guy who runs and hides and drags the match on for another 7 minutes.

[Roland]

Quote

Pay close attention to this statement quoted from the Post by Egomane: "If you fight to the best of your abilities and hide when there is no way for you to win anymore, that is perfectly fine.

Egomane is incorrect.

There is nothing "fine" about running away and hiding.

[Corvus Antaka]

Report them to support@mwomercs.com

Any team-mate giving away a fellow team-mates position is a traitor and nothing more than dead-waste of breath honestly. Dead players can freely leave the game, and any dead player on your team or the enemy team that is in any way negatively engaging you through chat is nothing more than an angry troll screaming for attention.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 28 December 2013 - 12:32 AM.

[Ryvucz]

Be sure to take a screenshot and/or video to help expedite your report.

Also note the date and time in your report.

[Wintersdark]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 December 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Report them to support@mwomercs.com

Any team-mate giving away a fellow team-mates position is a traitor and nothing more than dead-waste of breath honestly. Dead players can freely leave the game, and any dead player on your team or the enemy team that is in any way negatively engaging you through chat is nothing more than an angry troll screaming for attention.

To be clear, I do not and have not given away live teammates positions - its against the rules, clear enough.

However, now with Skirmish, what you say above just isn't true - or at least is deliberately misleading. Sure, dead players can just leave the game.

Except they can't take their mech with them. That mech is now tied up for the remainder of the timer. In Conquest or Assault, I never cared. Teammates could simply meander to the cap point and end the match, and everyone was happy.

Now that's not an option. As soon as one KDR ***** runs off and hides, 23 other peoples' mechs are locked up for the remainder of the timer. From the beginning of Open Beta, this has been a concern of mine regarding Deathmatch game modes, and now here it is.

Sure, you can elect to not play Skirmish matches, but that means you're electing to not play Skirmish AND Assault or Conquest, limiting yourself to 1/3 of the match types and ensuring much squirrelier matchmaking results etc.

In short, buddy who runs and hides is wasting _everybody's_ time.

Edited by Wintersdark, 28 December 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[stjobe]

Wintersdark, on 28 December 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

In short, buddy who runs and hides is wasting _everybody's_ time.

It's a rare player that only has the one 'mech though. You're dead, just leave and play one of your other 'mechs for a match and let the ones who are still alive play the remainder of the match as they see fit.

[Wintersdark]

stjobe, on 28 December 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

It's a rare player that only has the one 'mech though. You're dead, just leave and play one of your other 'mechs for a match and let the ones who are still alive play the remainder of the match as they see fit.

And if you're not dead? I'm still not arguing people should give away positions, but the surviving players aren't having a good time either. If the surviving player - say on the opposing team - disconnects, he loses a great deal.

Its not that "the ones alive are playing the match as they see fit", they're left essentially just standing there staring at the timer waiting for it to tick down, or trundling around looking for that last locust powered down in a corner somewhere.

That's not good gameplay for anyone.

[stjobe]

Wintersdark, on 28 December 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

And if you're not dead? I'm still not arguing people should give away positions, but the surviving players aren't having a good time either. If the surviving player - say on the opposing team - disconnects, he loses a great deal.

Its not that "the ones alive are playing the match as they see fit", they're left essentially just standing there staring at the timer waiting for it to tick down, or trundling around looking for that last locust powered down in a corner somewhere.

That's not good gameplay for anyone.

While I don't disagree, the argument was against *dead* players revealing the location of the last remaining member of their own team. Those players should just quit, they have nothing to gain from staying in the match.

The opposing team's players are in a bit of a bind, yes. Either they search for the remaining 'mech, possibly finding it and adding some CB/XP to their win, or they wait out the timer and win anyway. Now waiting for 5 minutes isn't exactly how I like spending my MWO time either, but in this case there's not much else you can do. The alternative, to not allow someone to power down and run out the clock, would be worse in my opinion.

[Wintersdark]

stjobe, on 28 December 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

The opposing team's players are in a bit of a bind, yes. Either they search for the remaining 'mech, possibly finding it and adding some CB/XP to their win, or they wait out the timer and win anyway. Now waiting for 5 minutes isn't exactly how I like spending my MWO time either, but in this case there's not much else you can do. The alternative, to not allow someone to power down and run out the clock, would be worse in my opinion.

Why do you feel it would be worse to not allow someone to power down and wait out the clock? Why is that a protected right? It's not like a death hurts you in any way, and it allows the match to wrap up and everyone else to go about their way 5-7 minutes faster.

Just dying and ending it is a lot better than the inevitable rage generation from making all the surviving players stand around for 5-7 minutes.

And yes, I've heard to argument before "It's only 5-7 minutes, not a large part of your life" and the like, but the reality is from a game design standpoint when you allow a player to troll a group of other players that way, they absolutely will do it. When it happens once in a while, who cares. When it happens with disturbing regularity, however? Those 5-7 minute chunks add up, and they suck. It makes people angry, and angry people get abusive. Angry abusive people don't make a good gaming environment for anyone.

I don't have a good solution here. I never have, and it's why I've been very resistant to a TDM game mode. People complained about base capping, and yeah, cap races weren't buckets of fun, but at least they wrapped up quickly so you could grab another drop.

[stjobe]

Wintersdark, on 28 December 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Why do you feel it would be worse to not allow someone to power down and wait out the clock? Why is that a protected right? It's not like a death hurts you in any way, and it allows the match to wrap up and everyone else to go about their way 5-7 minutes faster.

Just dying and ending it is a lot better than the inevitable rage generation from making all the surviving players stand around for 5-7 minutes.[

And yes, I've heard to argument before "It's only 5-7 minutes, not a large part of your life" and the like, but the reality is from a game design standpoint when you allow a player to troll a group of other players that way, they absolutely will do it. When it happens once in a while, who cares. When it happens with disturbing regularity, however? Those 5-7 minute chunks add up, and they suck. It makes people angry, and angry people get abusive. Angry abusive people don't make a good gaming environment for anyone.

As I said, I don't disagree. But ratting out your team mate to the enemy so they can kill him can never be allowed as a viable tactic in a team-based game, hence my resistance to it.

Wintersdark, on 28 December 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

I don't have a good solution here.

I do, and it's been a staple of the BattleTech Universe since its inception: Surrender.

Either just allow the remaining player to surrender at the push of a button, or implement an eject function which ejects the player from his 'mech and ends the match for him (and in extension the match for everyone if he's the last 'mech standing on his team).

At that point, you can implement any punitive measures you want for players that don't surrender and don't fight.

[Corvus Antaka]

Wintersdark, on 28 December 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

To be clear, I do not and have not given away live teammates positions - its against the rules, clear enough.

However, now with Skirmish, what you say above just isn't true - or at least is deliberately misleading. Sure, dead players can just leave the game.

Except they can't take their mech with them. That mech is now tied up for the remainder of the timer. In Conquest or Assault, I never cared. Teammates could simply meander to the cap point and end the match, and everyone was happy.

Now that's not an option. As soon as one KDR ***** runs off and hides, 23 other peoples' mechs are locked up for the remainder of the timer. From the beginning of Open Beta, this has been a concern of mine regarding Deathmatch game modes, and now here it is.

Sure, you can elect to not play Skirmish matches, but that means you're electing to not play Skirmish AND Assault or Conquest, limiting yourself to 1/3 of the match types and ensuring much squirrelier matchmaking results etc.

In short, buddy who runs and hides is wasting _everybody's_ time.

Ridiculous. Every mechwarrior should have at least 2 mechs ready to launch at all times. There is no excuse of "wasting time" beyond the time you allow others to waste. If you don't like waiting after you die in a game, you leave, grab another mech, and launch again.

If you dont own more than 1 mech, you can always grind some cash in a trial mech.

In this case I must disagree. There is only 1 stance, and that is very simply that once you lose your mech in the match, you either help your teammate do his best to survive or win, or you leave. Otherwise you are simply another heckling troll screaming for attention.

[Wintersdark]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 December 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Ridiculous. Every mechwarrior should have at least 2 mechs ready to launch at all times. There is no excuse of "wasting time" beyond the time you allow others to waste. If you don't like waiting after you die in a game, you leave, grab another mech, and launch again.

If you dont own more than 1 mech, you can always grind some cash in a trial mech.

In this case I must disagree. There is only 1 stance, and that is very simply that once you lose your mech in the match, you either help your teammate do his best to survive or win, or you leave. Otherwise you are simply another heckling troll screaming for attention.

Fair enough. While I still feel this is not a good situation(trial mechs being what they are, and the suckiness of having ones hero mech locked up, for example) I can accept that.

What about the otherwise victorious live mechs? They do have to stand around in game, waiting out the timer because if they disconnect, they throw away a substantial amount of rewards.

Why are they being punished for winning?

This is my problem. I don't care if buddy is obsessed with his kdr and hides so long as it doesn't cause issues. I certainly don't care that I'm being deprived a potential kill or whatever.

But when people do this, it creates a situation where people are stuck in game (live) or at least have their mechs locked up (not an issue for those of us with lots, but a real annoyance to newer players for sure).

These people are going to get angry. They are going to get abusive. I'm not making claims to justification here, but that IS going to happen. Its a game design that WILL create hostility.

A "surrender" button as St Jobe suggested is a good solution. But there needs to be something.

Otherwise this is just going to continue to create hostility.

[Corvus Antaka]

I agree that a surrender button would be ok.

My prefferred option would be that running out of bounds preserves KDR & allows for a mech to "retreat" from the battle. This is a normal tactic on any modern battlefield, and allowing us the same option to retreat here would likely be the best & most realistic solution.

[GRiPSViGiL]

I would be okay with a surrender mechanic but plain and simple every game mode is on 15 min timer. If you are not willing to be in game for 15 mins then that is your own bad.

Actually the running out of bounds for retreat is an awesome idea. At least that would mean you would have to make it out of the match adding some thrill to the chase.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 28 December 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[Reitrix]

The only game mode where hiding Mechs are a problem is Skirmish.

Remind me again why players demanded this game mode?

[Caswallon]

Sigh this again... Oh well folks be crazy..

OP how 'bout going to 3pv before shutting down, hides mini map at least, though it they have the f9 frame & pos counter still going your still gonna get seen...