4
Blackjack Or Trebuchet?
Started by xMintaka, Dec 29 2013 10:29 AM
41 replies to this topic
#21
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- Overlord
- 3,446 posts
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- LocationCharging my Gauss Rifle
Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:35 PM
Trebuchet is still one of my favorite mechs the 3C is just too fun!
#22
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- Little Devil
- 5,841 posts
Member
Posted 01 January 2014 - 08:30 PM
The Treb is actually one of the best* LRM platforms currently in the game. For a given definition of LRM platform.
I use a TBT-5N run super stock with 2xALRM15, lasers in the laser arm, and going to be slinging a TAG in the missile arm the next time I'm out. Normally hate that thing - many times I've dodged death by reacting swiftly to spotting a TAG beam - but I figured I'd give it a shot. The main point is that unlike Stalkers or Battlemasters or whatever other assault 'Mech who thinks tube count is all there is to LRMs, the Trebuchet has the speed to put its modest-but-not-ignorable missile launchers just right exactly where they need to be. LRM Skirmisher is not a role one picks up in an afternoon, but it's great fun to toy with once you start catching the hang of it. Also deals surprising damage, and doesn't get you killed nearly as often as trying to brawl with a Treb does.
I've also got a 5J and a 7M for some oddity builds - decided against the 3C since I already had Cicadas for when I wanted to be a high-speed pest - and both of those are also interesting. The 5J feels kinda like a monstrous Commando with jump jets - rush in on a max-rated engine, lay into somebody with a quintet of medium lasers and some ASRM fire (HEY. I built this thing a while ago, all right?), then get the hizzell out while their ears are still ringing. Tried a good half-dozen builds on the 7M myself - for a while it was looking fair to be my new main 'Mech, after my Dragons fell off a bit. Unfortunately, the Shadow Hawk does just about everything the 7M can do but with more pizzazz - my 2D2 is running the 2xLarge Laser/4xSSRM build which is basically exactly what my best 7M build was, plus an extra launcher. It even took the engine outta the 7M. Poor guy.
I haven't touched Blackjacks save for a few runs in the trial 1(C). Admittedly, the trial 1(C) is an impressive design and was great fun to run, but still. Blackjacks are slow, no doubt about it, but they have the advantage of a really great model. They're compact and small - it's easy to lose track of a Blackjack in the middle of a fracas, and losing track of something with an AC/20 or eight medium lasers is never even remotely a good thing. They make really great escorts for larger units - the 1(C) is a nearly ideal wingman for an Atlas or Battlemaster looking for a little friend of his very own - but they can't really operate outside the group. I have never once really feared an encounter with an isolated Blackjack, no matter what I happen to be driving at the time. They may take a bite out of me, but they are just not going to win duels unless someone else has done all their work for them first.
I use a TBT-5N run super stock with 2xALRM15, lasers in the laser arm, and going to be slinging a TAG in the missile arm the next time I'm out. Normally hate that thing - many times I've dodged death by reacting swiftly to spotting a TAG beam - but I figured I'd give it a shot. The main point is that unlike Stalkers or Battlemasters or whatever other assault 'Mech who thinks tube count is all there is to LRMs, the Trebuchet has the speed to put its modest-but-not-ignorable missile launchers just right exactly where they need to be. LRM Skirmisher is not a role one picks up in an afternoon, but it's great fun to toy with once you start catching the hang of it. Also deals surprising damage, and doesn't get you killed nearly as often as trying to brawl with a Treb does.
I've also got a 5J and a 7M for some oddity builds - decided against the 3C since I already had Cicadas for when I wanted to be a high-speed pest - and both of those are also interesting. The 5J feels kinda like a monstrous Commando with jump jets - rush in on a max-rated engine, lay into somebody with a quintet of medium lasers and some ASRM fire (HEY. I built this thing a while ago, all right?), then get the hizzell out while their ears are still ringing. Tried a good half-dozen builds on the 7M myself - for a while it was looking fair to be my new main 'Mech, after my Dragons fell off a bit. Unfortunately, the Shadow Hawk does just about everything the 7M can do but with more pizzazz - my 2D2 is running the 2xLarge Laser/4xSSRM build which is basically exactly what my best 7M build was, plus an extra launcher. It even took the engine outta the 7M. Poor guy.
I haven't touched Blackjacks save for a few runs in the trial 1(C). Admittedly, the trial 1(C) is an impressive design and was great fun to run, but still. Blackjacks are slow, no doubt about it, but they have the advantage of a really great model. They're compact and small - it's easy to lose track of a Blackjack in the middle of a fracas, and losing track of something with an AC/20 or eight medium lasers is never even remotely a good thing. They make really great escorts for larger units - the 1(C) is a nearly ideal wingman for an Atlas or Battlemaster looking for a little friend of his very own - but they can't really operate outside the group. I have never once really feared an encounter with an isolated Blackjack, no matter what I happen to be driving at the time. They may take a bite out of me, but they are just not going to win duels unless someone else has done all their work for them first.
#23
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- Knight Errant
- 91 posts
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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:36 PM
One of the bonuses of Blackjacks is that despite their low armor, they're also low-priorty targets, so you can hammer away at range to your heart's content. Honestly one of my favorite builds for the silly things is 2 AC2s and 2 medium lasers and as much ammo as I can stuff into it. Suprisingly effective, but the brunt of that is the AC2s. However, Blackjacks have, at most, two roles, Direct-fire Support and Skirmisher. They dont' have the durability to be full-time brawlers. And XL engines are unfortunately somewhat mandatory, so they're kind of expensive.
I haven't heard a lot of GOOD things about the Trebuchet, people don't seem to like them, no idea why. At a guess, part of it has to be that the split missile hardpoints makes it so you're pretty much stuck with lock-on missile weapons (mostly SRMs being bad there though), and most of the energy hardpoints are in its relatively MASSIVE arms. They can probably act as decent LRM 'Mechs, and the 7K works as a great substitute for a Yen Lo Wang/Hunchback G. Other than that, I have heard great things about the jump-capable ones, and the super-fast one could be a great "screw you" light hunter/skirmisher.
So, if you want more variety, go for the Trenchbuckets. And avoid the BJ-1DC, 2 extra energy hardpoints isn't worth the loss of jumpjets.
I haven't heard a lot of GOOD things about the Trebuchet, people don't seem to like them, no idea why. At a guess, part of it has to be that the split missile hardpoints makes it so you're pretty much stuck with lock-on missile weapons (mostly SRMs being bad there though), and most of the energy hardpoints are in its relatively MASSIVE arms. They can probably act as decent LRM 'Mechs, and the 7K works as a great substitute for a Yen Lo Wang/Hunchback G. Other than that, I have heard great things about the jump-capable ones, and the super-fast one could be a great "screw you" light hunter/skirmisher.
So, if you want more variety, go for the Trenchbuckets. And avoid the BJ-1DC, 2 extra energy hardpoints isn't worth the loss of jumpjets.
#24
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- The Nimble
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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:13 AM
rdmgraziel, on 02 January 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:
One of the bonuses of Blackjacks is that despite their low armor, they're also low-priorty targets, so you can hammer away at range to your heart's content. Honestly one of my favorite builds for the silly things is 2 AC2s and 2 medium lasers and as much ammo as I can stuff into it. Suprisingly effective, but the brunt of that is the AC2s. However, Blackjacks have, at most, two roles, Direct-fire Support and Skirmisher. They dont' have the durability to be full-time brawlers. And XL engines are unfortunately somewhat mandatory, so they're kind of expensive.
I haven't heard a lot of GOOD things about the Trebuchet, people don't seem to like them, no idea why. At a guess, part of it has to be that the split missile hardpoints makes it so you're pretty much stuck with lock-on missile weapons (mostly SRMs being bad there though), and most of the energy hardpoints are in its relatively MASSIVE arms. They can probably act as decent LRM 'Mechs, and the 7K works as a great substitute for a Yen Lo Wang/Hunchback G. Other than that, I have heard great things about the jump-capable ones, and the super-fast one could be a great "screw you" light hunter/skirmisher.
So, if you want more variety, go for the Trenchbuckets. And avoid the BJ-1DC, 2 extra energy hardpoints isn't worth the loss of jumpjets.
I haven't heard a lot of GOOD things about the Trebuchet, people don't seem to like them, no idea why. At a guess, part of it has to be that the split missile hardpoints makes it so you're pretty much stuck with lock-on missile weapons (mostly SRMs being bad there though), and most of the energy hardpoints are in its relatively MASSIVE arms. They can probably act as decent LRM 'Mechs, and the 7K works as a great substitute for a Yen Lo Wang/Hunchback G. Other than that, I have heard great things about the jump-capable ones, and the super-fast one could be a great "screw you" light hunter/skirmisher.
So, if you want more variety, go for the Trenchbuckets. And avoid the BJ-1DC, 2 extra energy hardpoints isn't worth the loss of jumpjets.
Actually the only reason I was considering the BJ was because of the 1X (8 Energy hardpoints). All of my most effective mechs are energy heavy, barring the Protector and TBT-7K (but they use PPC's and I adore PPC's). 116kph with that sort of Alpha is hard to beat. Jumpjets are nice to have, but I can live without them.
But, to address your comment about locking missiles, see below.
1453 R, on 01 January 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:
The Treb is actually one of the best* LRM platforms currently in the game. For a given definition of LRM platform.
I use a TBT-5N run super stock with 2xALRM15, lasers in the laser arm, and going to be slinging a TAG in the missile arm the next time I'm out. Normally hate that thing - many times I've dodged death by reacting swiftly to spotting a TAG beam - but I figured I'd give it a shot. The main point is that unlike Stalkers or Battlemasters or whatever other assault 'Mech who thinks tube count is all there is to LRMs, the Trebuchet has the speed to put its modest-but-not-ignorable missile launchers just right exactly where they need to be. LRM Skirmisher is not a role one picks up in an afternoon, but it's great fun to toy with once you start catching the hang of it. Also deals surprising damage, and doesn't get you killed nearly as often as trying to brawl with a Treb does.
I've also got a 5J and a 7M for some oddity builds - decided against the 3C since I already had Cicadas for when I wanted to be a high-speed pest - and both of those are also interesting. The 5J feels kinda like a monstrous Commando with jump jets - rush in on a max-rated engine, lay into somebody with a quintet of medium lasers and some ASRM fire (HEY. I built this thing a while ago, all right?), then get the hizzell out while their ears are still ringing. Tried a good half-dozen builds on the 7M myself - for a while it was looking fair to be my new main 'Mech, after my Dragons fell off a bit. Unfortunately, the Shadow Hawk does just about everything the 7M can do but with more pizzazz - my 2D2 is running the 2xLarge Laser/4xSSRM build which is basically exactly what my best 7M build was, plus an extra launcher. It even took the engine outta the 7M. Poor guy.
I haven't touched Blackjacks save for a few runs in the trial 1©. Admittedly, the trial 1© is an impressive design and was great fun to run, but still. Blackjacks are slow, no doubt about it, but they have the advantage of a really great model. They're compact and small - it's easy to lose track of a Blackjack in the middle of a fracas, and losing track of something with an AC/20 or eight medium lasers is never even remotely a good thing. They make really great escorts for larger units - the 1© is a nearly ideal wingman for an Atlas or Battlemaster looking for a little friend of his very own - but they can't really operate outside the group. I have never once really feared an encounter with an isolated Blackjack, no matter what I happen to be driving at the time. They may take a bite out of me, but they are just not going to win duels unless someone else has done all their work for them first.
I use a TBT-5N run super stock with 2xALRM15, lasers in the laser arm, and going to be slinging a TAG in the missile arm the next time I'm out. Normally hate that thing - many times I've dodged death by reacting swiftly to spotting a TAG beam - but I figured I'd give it a shot. The main point is that unlike Stalkers or Battlemasters or whatever other assault 'Mech who thinks tube count is all there is to LRMs, the Trebuchet has the speed to put its modest-but-not-ignorable missile launchers just right exactly where they need to be. LRM Skirmisher is not a role one picks up in an afternoon, but it's great fun to toy with once you start catching the hang of it. Also deals surprising damage, and doesn't get you killed nearly as often as trying to brawl with a Treb does.
I've also got a 5J and a 7M for some oddity builds - decided against the 3C since I already had Cicadas for when I wanted to be a high-speed pest - and both of those are also interesting. The 5J feels kinda like a monstrous Commando with jump jets - rush in on a max-rated engine, lay into somebody with a quintet of medium lasers and some ASRM fire (HEY. I built this thing a while ago, all right?), then get the hizzell out while their ears are still ringing. Tried a good half-dozen builds on the 7M myself - for a while it was looking fair to be my new main 'Mech, after my Dragons fell off a bit. Unfortunately, the Shadow Hawk does just about everything the 7M can do but with more pizzazz - my 2D2 is running the 2xLarge Laser/4xSSRM build which is basically exactly what my best 7M build was, plus an extra launcher. It even took the engine outta the 7M. Poor guy.
I haven't touched Blackjacks save for a few runs in the trial 1©. Admittedly, the trial 1© is an impressive design and was great fun to run, but still. Blackjacks are slow, no doubt about it, but they have the advantage of a really great model. They're compact and small - it's easy to lose track of a Blackjack in the middle of a fracas, and losing track of something with an AC/20 or eight medium lasers is never even remotely a good thing. They make really great escorts for larger units - the 1© is a nearly ideal wingman for an Atlas or Battlemaster looking for a little friend of his very own - but they can't really operate outside the group. I have never once really feared an encounter with an isolated Blackjack, no matter what I happen to be driving at the time. They may take a bite out of me, but they are just not going to win duels unless someone else has done all their work for them first.
You are quite right. I too find Medium mechs that run AC20's work best with an Assault buddy to draw fire. I don't consider them brawlers as much as close range fire support. Sure, what you're doing is effectively brawling, but you really can't take the sort of punishment that a true brawler can. Therefore it's best to let someone draw the fire, while you add to their firepower. An example is of a while back, on the Comstar TS server, we had an Atlas and three people in Boomjacks. The Atlas would step out into the brawl first, call out a target and we'd all run out, unload 60 points of damage into a specified component and run away. Absolutely brutal, but team work is vital for them to work, and that is sorely lacking in most pug games.
As you say though, fast moving LRM boats are by far the best choice. You can reliably keep almost any mech within Tag range, which, provided your target doesn't have AMS, makes even a single ALRM15 a force to be reckoned with. It doesn't have the capability to truly supress a group of mechs, but if you maneuver correctly and keep LOS to your target (for at least as long as the missiles are in flight) you deal a surprising amount of damage. Plus, having a decent amount of Mlas backup is handy when lights inevitably come around, plus you have the Tag and speed to keep them in your sights as they run away, raining missiles on them in the process.
There is a very simple (and common) counter to this though, and that is two or more AMS. But you have the speed to relocate and find other targets. It just sucks when the whole enemy team has AMS!
It is a difficult role to pick up, and certainly not for everyone, but it's damn fun.
Amsro, on 01 January 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:
Trebuchet is still one of my favorite mechs the 3C is just too fun!
Do you mind sharing a build or two? I'm struggling with mine, compared to the 7K. Currently I've got it set up like a big Commando, 350XL, 5 (or four) Mlas and two ASRM's (6's I think). Works pretty well, but it's very situational. Moving that fast is great and all, but you're a mahoosive target even so.
See, the issue I face is that I thoroughly enjoy making use of a variant's quirk. For the 3C that is the stupid high engine cap. Whereas it's probably better off running an ALRM15 + ALRM10 Tag XL300 build. But you can do that on other, jump capable TBT's, so what's the point of buying the 3C?
At the moment I'm debating going with two Streaks and the rest Mlas, to support the Lights in conquest, but only two streaks seems a bit weak.
Edited by Lunatech, 03 January 2014 - 12:15 AM.
#25
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- The Boombox
- 492 posts
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- Locationon "The island"
Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:24 AM
Treb was the first Mech i mastered.
Within 3 variants to master, you get mechs with very diffrent playstyles, LRM Boats, Directfire Mechs with an enery Weapon and a Ballistic (up to a 20er), you could even make an SRM Supporter... yes its big, but then.. people dont take it for full.. you advantage... Some Trebs are also quite quick, others can jump.
Arguably it beats the Blackjack lookwise.
7K
http://www.mechspecs...hp?topic=4524.0
http://www.mechspecs...hp?topic=3353.0
3C
http://www.mechspecs...php?topic=632.0
http://www.mechspecs...hp?topic=1184.0
7M
http://www.mechspecs...php?topic=569.0
Within 3 variants to master, you get mechs with very diffrent playstyles, LRM Boats, Directfire Mechs with an enery Weapon and a Ballistic (up to a 20er), you could even make an SRM Supporter... yes its big, but then.. people dont take it for full.. you advantage... Some Trebs are also quite quick, others can jump.
Arguably it beats the Blackjack lookwise.
7K
http://www.mechspecs...hp?topic=4524.0
http://www.mechspecs...hp?topic=3353.0
3C
http://www.mechspecs...php?topic=632.0
http://www.mechspecs...hp?topic=1184.0
7M
http://www.mechspecs...php?topic=569.0
Edited by John McFianna, 03 January 2014 - 12:30 AM.
#26
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- The Nimble
- 882 posts
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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:28 AM
John McFianna, on 03 January 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:
Arguably it beats the Blackjack lookwise.
That's what won it over for me, ultimately. Sad to say that I'm that shallow, but that's how it is. At least when it comes to a big, stompy fusion reactor on legs.
Without a doubt though, you Draconis Combine folks came up with the best variant (5K). That thing is a beast. 97kph without speed tweak, 15 pinpoint alpha (not to mention the DPS that comes from a lucky streak with the UAC) and two streaks. Nasty.
Can't wait til it gets a once over with the modular hardpoints though. It would be nice not to have a huge 15 missile rack on the arms when I'm not running any missiles there >.>
#27
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- Ace Of Spades
- 85 posts
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- LocationWhere you don't want to be
Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:47 PM
John McFianna, on 03 January 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:
Arguably it beats the Blackjack lookwise.
Are you on crack?
Also, I'd rather take a mech that can be built effectively with something approaching top-end sustainable firepower or a top-end engine, and with ballistics rather than missiles. LRMs are just damn annoying and useless as long as the enemy observes some manner of cover awareness. Better then to be able to move around, taking pot shots for assists and getting up in the face of irritating support mechs that might harass your teammates but can't properly defend themselves up close because they've kitted themselves with cowards' weapons.
#28
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- Overlord
- 3,446 posts
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- LocationCharging my Gauss Rifle
Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:45 PM
Lunatech, on 03 January 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:
Do you mind sharing a build or two? I'm struggling with mine, compared to the 7K. Currently I've got it set up like a big Commando, 350XL, 5 (or four) Mlas and two ASRM's (6's I think). Works pretty well, but it's very situational. Moving that fast is great and all, but you're a mahoosive target even so.
See, the issue I face is that I thoroughly enjoy making use of a variant's quirk. For the 3C that is the stupid high engine cap. Whereas it's probably better off running an ALRM15 + ALRM10 Tag XL300 build. But you can do that on other, jump capable TBT's, so what's the point of buying the 3C?
At the moment I'm debating going with two Streaks and the rest Mlas, to support the Lights in conquest, but only two streaks seems a bit weak.
See, the issue I face is that I thoroughly enjoy making use of a variant's quirk. For the 3C that is the stupid high engine cap. Whereas it's probably better off running an ALRM15 + ALRM10 Tag XL300 build. But you can do that on other, jump capable TBT's, so what's the point of buying the 3C?
At the moment I'm debating going with two Streaks and the rest Mlas, to support the Lights in conquest, but only two streaks seems a bit weak.
Yeah using streaks on the Treb seems like a waste. I prefer using the speed of the 3C, at 130+ kph you really see a benefit in speed and agility.
Using the XL370 engine gives the best balance of speed and firepower.
Trebuchet 3C - 2xASRM6 + 2xMedLas
One of my best mechs all time.
Trebuchet 3C - ERLargeLaser + 3xMedLas
This one was a giant armored spider experiment.
It was surprisingly good. 
#29
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- 1,906 posts
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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:16 PM
juxstapo, on 29 December 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:
Blackjack hands down.
but yea, try it first
but yea, try it first
this guy said it right, I've owned both for a while and the blackjack is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY more Awesome!
#30
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- Ace Of Spades
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- LocationStuck on a piece of Commando in my Ice Ferret
Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:21 PM
Glad you like fast mediums! Black jacks are slower and much easier to kill than a trebuchet.
My personal favorite is the 3C with a XL390 (140KPH) 2x streaks 2 tons ammo, 2 MLs, and 2 SLs. You can effectivley kill any light bar none. If you want more lasers and less streakage, remove 1 on ammo and upgrade to 4 MLs. The ballistic treb and JJ treb are also good, if you build them to kill lights. That seems to be their niche.
My personal favorite is the 3C with a XL390 (140KPH) 2x streaks 2 tons ammo, 2 MLs, and 2 SLs. You can effectivley kill any light bar none. If you want more lasers and less streakage, remove 1 on ammo and upgrade to 4 MLs. The ballistic treb and JJ treb are also good, if you build them to kill lights. That seems to be their niche.
#31
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- 318 posts
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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:32 PM
You cant really count variant armor as "low", since you can modify it. I find myself using half armor mechs more these days. Trade a ton or two here or there to switch that AC/5 into an AC/10, or that LL into a PPC.
The drawbacks are superfluous if you know how to get around them.
The drawbacks are superfluous if you know how to get around them.
#32
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- FP Veteran - Beta 1
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- Locationmy Tier is bigger than yours.
Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:36 PM
As much as I'm a proponent of max engines, you'll find that the practical engine mount is usually lower than the maximum engine possible. Namely, you shove a huge XL in a 50-55 tonner, you will allllmost go as fast as some lights...
while not bringing enough weapons to warrant the size of mech you're in.
That didn't make sense. Can anyone link to the chart the dude made about making a Cicada go as fast as a Jenner not being remotely worth it?
Uhrm, for example, I tried the entire engine range with my Shawks, but wound up sticking to a 300xl. My Griffins are all 275-295 (standard, fyi). And my Wolvies are floating around that mark also. I can put larger engines in them, but that doesn't mean I should. I have an array of lights all maxed engined and speed tweaked if I want to Ricky Bobby. Doing it in a fifty tonner seems silly.
and all this seems very hypocritical when I own a 385xl for mah Victors.
Eh, nevermind. Enjoy your Treb <--- (No irony or sarcasm intended there)
while not bringing enough weapons to warrant the size of mech you're in.
That didn't make sense. Can anyone link to the chart the dude made about making a Cicada go as fast as a Jenner not being remotely worth it?
Uhrm, for example, I tried the entire engine range with my Shawks, but wound up sticking to a 300xl. My Griffins are all 275-295 (standard, fyi). And my Wolvies are floating around that mark also. I can put larger engines in them, but that doesn't mean I should. I have an array of lights all maxed engined and speed tweaked if I want to Ricky Bobby. Doing it in a fifty tonner seems silly.
and all this seems very hypocritical when I own a 385xl for mah Victors.
Eh, nevermind. Enjoy your Treb <--- (No irony or sarcasm intended there)
#33
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- Little Devil
- 5,841 posts
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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:11 PM
Hey, man.
Hey, now.
Hey.
...don't you be sassing 385XL Victors. Those suckers are the only 'Mech above 60 tons I bought for myself (my Phoenix 'mechs were a gift and thusly the T-bolts and Battlemasters therein don't count, so NYAH). There's something about a machine with an AC/20 moving 85 klicks an hour...with double the armor and backup armament of a Boomjack...that just gets me positively dripping wet. Or would if I was actually sexually attracted to BattleMechs. Or a woman.
Nevertheless, I do love me some Angry Ape.
Hey, now.
Hey.
...don't you be sassing 385XL Victors. Those suckers are the only 'Mech above 60 tons I bought for myself (my Phoenix 'mechs were a gift and thusly the T-bolts and Battlemasters therein don't count, so NYAH). There's something about a machine with an AC/20 moving 85 klicks an hour...with double the armor and backup armament of a Boomjack...that just gets me positively dripping wet. Or would if I was actually sexually attracted to BattleMechs. Or a woman.
Nevertheless, I do love me some Angry Ape.
Edited by 1453 R, 03 January 2014 - 06:12 PM.
#34
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- 318 posts
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Posted 03 January 2014 - 07:53 PM
juxstapo, on 03 January 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:
As much as I'm a proponent of max engines, you'll find that the practical engine mount is usually lower than the maximum engine possible. Namely, you shove a huge XL in a 50-55 tonner, you will allllmost go as fast as some lights...
while not bringing enough weapons to warrant the size of mech you're in.
That didn't make sense. Can anyone link to the chart the dude made about making a Cicada go as fast as a Jenner not being remotely worth it?
Uhrm, for example, I tried the entire engine range with my Shawks, but wound up sticking to a 300xl. My Griffins are all 275-295 (standard, fyi). And my Wolvies are floating around that mark also. I can put larger engines in them, but that doesn't mean I should. I have an array of lights all maxed engined and speed tweaked if I want to Ricky Bobby. Doing it in a fifty tonner seems silly.
and all this seems very hypocritical when I own a 385xl for mah Victors. Eh, nevermind. Enjoy your Treb <--- (No irony or sarcasm intended there)
while not bringing enough weapons to warrant the size of mech you're in.
That didn't make sense. Can anyone link to the chart the dude made about making a Cicada go as fast as a Jenner not being remotely worth it?
Uhrm, for example, I tried the entire engine range with my Shawks, but wound up sticking to a 300xl. My Griffins are all 275-295 (standard, fyi). And my Wolvies are floating around that mark also. I can put larger engines in them, but that doesn't mean I should. I have an array of lights all maxed engined and speed tweaked if I want to Ricky Bobby. Doing it in a fifty tonner seems silly.
and all this seems very hypocritical when I own a 385xl for mah Victors.
Eh, nevermind. Enjoy your Treb <--- (No irony or sarcasm intended there)Quote
When building a battlemech, think about its intended role, and give it only the movement it needs to do its job. Heavy line-of-battle mechs that go 5/8/5 are nice at getting to the fight, but once there, seldom have much ability to influence it because too much of their mass has been dedicated to movement systems. The Naga has powerful weapons systems, but if it went 4/6 instead of 5/8, it would be able to mount 50% more (and be less expensive, to boot).
Edited by Myomes, 03 January 2014 - 07:55 PM.
#35
Posted 06 January 2014 - 03:47 AM
Try out the Black jack. it's the only 45 ton medium mech in the game currently and if a tonnage limit is put in you'll be able to lower tons from those 50 to 55 toners to a 45 tonner. They have a lot of hard points to use like a hunch back but most are slower than the speed that I like of 96kph or higher so I only have the BJ-1X mastered.
Edited by ArchSight, 06 January 2014 - 03:51 AM.
#36
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- Rage
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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:07 AM
I've found my sweet spot in terms of BJ engine to be the XL 220.
#37
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- Ace Of Spades
- 3,806 posts
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- LocationStuck on a piece of Commando in my Ice Ferret
Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:39 AM
^same^
#38
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- The Bloodlust
- 1,136 posts
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- LocationAbbotsford, BC
Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:16 PM
Inflatable Fish, on 07 January 2014 - 03:07 AM, said:
I've found my sweet spot in terms of BJ engine to be the XL 220.
I don't see any reason to choose the XL220 over the XL225. You need at least 10 heatsinks in a build and the XL220 has 8 internal heatsinks and weighs 9 tons, while the XL225 has 9 internal heatsinks and weighs 10 tons.
That means the XL220 plus 2 external heatsinks weighs the same as an XL225 and one external heatsink (each build bringing you up to the minimum 10 heatsinks). The XL225 gives you about an extra 2kph for the same weight.
#39
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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:48 PM
Ruccus, on 08 January 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:
I don't see any reason to choose the XL220 over the XL225. You need at least 10 heatsinks in a build and the XL220 has 8 internal heatsinks and weighs 9 tons, while the XL225 has 9 internal heatsinks and weighs 10 tons.
That means the XL220 plus 2 external heatsinks weighs the same as an XL225 and one external heatsink (each build bringing you up to the minimum 10 heatsinks). The XL225 gives you about an extra 2kph for the same weight.
That means the XL220 plus 2 external heatsinks weighs the same as an XL225 and one external heatsink (each build bringing you up to the minimum 10 heatsinks). The XL225 gives you about an extra 2kph for the same weight.
yeah it was my bad. I was thinking about the 225, with 9 heat sinks.
#40
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- The Cub
- 459 posts
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Posted 11 January 2014 - 10:54 PM
In all honesty to the OP: Get BOTH of these chassis, they are my favorite. BJ-1 is great with a Guass-rifle and 3 med lasers. Bj-3 I use 2 ER Large and 2 Medium pulses. Bj-1x I use 3 large lasers, ghost heat be damned (its not bad with only 3). All blackjacks should use max engine size as they are slow for thier tonnage. 2 jumpjets, endo, dhs for all three of those builds.
Trebs are great too, the 3 c can be either a super fast light hnter, or a quick "lrmisher". I have mine with an XL-265, 2 lrm 15 with Artemis, 5 tons of ammo, 3 medium lasers, TAG. You can tweak this to get case by dropping to an XL-255, or get more ammo by dropping a laser. If you have to have BAP (I will contend not necessary for lrms really if you have enough backup weapons) then you could do three small lasers to get the tonnage you need. Theres lots of little tweaks to get a 6th ton of ammo in there if you want, you might need it. Depends on whether you want case and how much armor you want. Theres a thread stating how dumb it is to put all ammo in legs and then shave armor off legs, that thread is correct.
Treb 7k: 2 ER large lasers and an AC-10. I think an XL-255 but I took the engine out and forgot. You could use just 2 regular large, runs a good bit cooler. My best match ever was 1105 damage and 6 kills in this build. Prob a terrible low-elo team but still.......
Treb 5j: 2 large lasers, 2 med lasers, an srm 6, xl-300. 2 jumpjets. Great mech.
Treb 7m: another great light-hunter or lrmisher. Either 3 med pulse and 3 streaks with BAP and an XL-300, 3 jumpjets. Or an lrm 10, lrm 15, artemis, XL-255, 5 tons of ammo, 2 jumpjets, 2 medium pulses. TAG. Again you can tweak the lrmisher to use regular mediums to get a bigger engine or BAP or go up to an lrm-30 instead of lrm-25. But with 25 ammo is easier to conserve.
Trebs are great too, the 3 c can be either a super fast light hnter, or a quick "lrmisher". I have mine with an XL-265, 2 lrm 15 with Artemis, 5 tons of ammo, 3 medium lasers, TAG. You can tweak this to get case by dropping to an XL-255, or get more ammo by dropping a laser. If you have to have BAP (I will contend not necessary for lrms really if you have enough backup weapons) then you could do three small lasers to get the tonnage you need. Theres lots of little tweaks to get a 6th ton of ammo in there if you want, you might need it. Depends on whether you want case and how much armor you want. Theres a thread stating how dumb it is to put all ammo in legs and then shave armor off legs, that thread is correct.
Treb 7k: 2 ER large lasers and an AC-10. I think an XL-255 but I took the engine out and forgot. You could use just 2 regular large, runs a good bit cooler. My best match ever was 1105 damage and 6 kills in this build. Prob a terrible low-elo team but still.......
Treb 5j: 2 large lasers, 2 med lasers, an srm 6, xl-300. 2 jumpjets. Great mech.
Treb 7m: another great light-hunter or lrmisher. Either 3 med pulse and 3 streaks with BAP and an XL-300, 3 jumpjets. Or an lrm 10, lrm 15, artemis, XL-255, 5 tons of ammo, 2 jumpjets, 2 medium pulses. TAG. Again you can tweak the lrmisher to use regular mediums to get a bigger engine or BAP or go up to an lrm-30 instead of lrm-25. But with 25 ammo is easier to conserve.
Edited by Scrotacus 42, 11 January 2014 - 10:56 PM.
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