112 replies to this topic

[990Dreams]

mogs01gt, on 17 January 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Ok now we have to get the xl350 just to get this mech to brawl.....Yeah that sounds like a great CB investment..

DavidHurricane, on 17 January 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

This is a good start build

This is what I pwn in

These Mechs function well on their own for a while and in a group of 2+ can be devastating. They are certainly good at suppression fire. I have killed many Mechs solo with the second one.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 17 January 2014 - 07:43 AM.

[Modo44]

pbiggz, on 17 January 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

DEFENSIVE TORSO TWISTING

Does not help with the slow legs. I much prefer medium to long range turret mode, especially with XL engines for more firepower.

[Tahribator]

As others stated, Orions are great brawlers. That being said, they are slow and sluggish beasts with low hardpoints, which necessitate very good understanding of positioning. After the hitbox balances, they tend to take extreme damage in sides which also requires you to avoid taking damage from enemies who aren't in front of you. If you are caught one vs many, you'll be peeled like a Stalker.

Bad points aside, Orions are very tanky. They cram a lot of armor into a relatively compact space(torso is thinner than a Dragon, Quickdraw, Cataphract, Thunderbolt) which means high armor density. Any enemy caught on level ground will have a very hard time taking you out. They can carry a lot of weaponry and a decent number of DHS to cool them, even with a STD300.

As a guy with a lot of matches in Orions(498 matches, 279 of them in my Protector), I'd say if you follow these simple rules, then you're on the way to understanding the point of Orions(for brawling, of course).

• Don't mount an XL(sides are extremely easy to take out)
  
• Mount a STD300 minimum for mobility
  
• A lot of heatsinks, if there's one mech you can't afford shutting down with, it's this one.
  
• Do not get caught one vs many, where you can't dictate where you take damage(You'll lose sides quickly). Always face the guy with the big gun.
  
• Fight on level ground.

If you want to "stay back and snipe" like some suggested, then there's no point to an Orion. Cataphracts, Jagers, Catapults will serve you better.

Edited by Tahribator, 17 January 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[LiGhtningFF13]

A thread about an interesting topic as well! The Orion, I don't really know how to use it, too guys. But when I read previous responses you can use it as a browler or a support variant. Difficult situation for me now ... so what to chose now?!

[mogs01gt]

Tahribator, on 17 January 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

As others stated, Orions are great brawlers. That being said, they are slow and sluggish beasts with low hardpoints, which necessitate very good understanding of positioning. After the hitbox balances, they tend to take extreme damage in sides which also requires you to avoid taking damage from enemies who aren't in front of you. If you are caught one vs many, you'll be peeled like a Stalker.Bad points aside, Orions are very tanky. They cram a lot of armor into a relatively compact space(torso is thinner than a Dragon, Quickdraw, Cataphract, Thunderbolt) which means high armor density. Any enemy caught on level ground will have a very hard time taking you out. They can carry a lot of weaponry and a decent number of DHS to cool them, even with a STD300.As a guy with a lot of matches in Orions(498 matches, 279 of them in my Protector), I'd say if you follow these simple rules, then you're on the way to understanding the point of Orions(for brawling, of course).Don't mount an XL(sides are extremely easy to take out)Mount a STD300 minimum for mobilityA lot of heatsinks, if there's one mech you can't afford shutting down with, it's this one.Do not get caught one vs many, where you can't dictate where you take damage(You'll lose sides quickly). Always face the guy with the big gun.Fight on level ground.
If you want to "stay back and snipe" like some suggested, then there's no point to an Orion. Cataphracts, Jagers, Catapults will serve you better.

Great post! Finally someone who understands how the mech is designed!

[Nehkrosis]

Ok, well I use this [smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3b13a337cd4159c[/smurfy] (for some reason, the enter isn't working on this keyboard atm ) I brawl more often than not, and do damn well in this. I find you survive because of your speed plus firepower can deter people from following you, while allowing you to prowl around brawls, applying excellent DPS and dropping people before they can retaliate properly. and if stuff goes south? you can bail, and have ams to help with that too.

Edited by Nehkrosis, 17 January 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[Tahribator]

LiGhtning90, on 17 January 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

A thread about an interesting topic as well! The Orion, I don't really know how to use it, too guys. But when I read previous responses you can use it as a browler or a support variant. Difficult situation for me now ... so what to chose now?!

Only support role that makes sense for them is LRM boating. Only the Protector can snipe well, thanks to its high E hardpoint.

Brawling well with them takes a lot of experience. Don't bother before when you've mastered a few chassises across the spectrum. I consider this an "end game" mech, where you start having fun making different mechs work. Like the Dragon, Awesome, Trebuchet, Commando etc.

[pbiggz]

Tahribator, on 17 January 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Only support role that makes sense for them is LRM boating. Only the Protector can snipe well, thanks to its high E hardpoint.

Brawling well with them takes a lot of experience. Don't bother before when you've mastered a few chassises across the spectrum. I consider this an "end game" mech, where you start having fun making different mechs work. Like the Dragon, Awesome, Trebuchet, Commando etc.

Actually I disagree with you in some respects there. If you're looking to brawl in earnest, the best place to start short of the king (atlas d-d-c) is an orion.

[pbiggz]

I would like to stress though that in "no-jump-jet" competitive matches, the orion does actually appear in competitive play, its a BEASTLY mech, you just need to understand it. Just like every other mech, you cannot force it to do things it is not designed to do. You can't make a spider do an atlas' job.

[mogs01gt]

pbiggz, on 17 January 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Actually I disagree with you in some respects there. If you're looking to brawl in earnest, the best place to start short of the king (atlas d-d-c) is an orion.

You are still going to run into the same issue that people mentioned before, the 300 engine isnt big enough. They are extremely slow mechs, even the 360 will only put them into the high 70s without speed tweak. That is a lot of C-bills invested int a brawler when there are better options.

[pbiggz]

oh, if you brawl in a ddc, you want at least a standard 340, it goes slow, but you cannot brawl in this game the way you did in say... mechwarrior 4. The IS doesn't have that technology, the clans do.

Here, i'll give you my outline on brawling in general.

Brawlers NEVER run alone. Brawlers generally mount short range weaponry, so you need to be masters of positioning and you at the very least need sniper backup, though in a perfect world, you would have that combined with another brawler at least.

Brawlers require speed to a point. Generally, atlas brawlers (which were the premier competitive brawlers before srms went fart) should go no slower than 65 kph. I run mine with a standard 360 engine. The orion with a std 300 engine goes 71 with speed tweak, which is a solid pace. You can keep up with most snipers at that speed.

Brawlers tank, to a point. Frontal assaults are silly, you lose your torsos first, especially in orions and atlai, where your torso straight on is the easiest target. When you brawl, you must treat your arms as shields, and then, your torsos as shields. Protection of your center torso should take precedence over dealing out damage. Even then, that goes to a point. If you feel like you can trade some armor damage on your CT for a killing shot, take the shot.

Brawlers twist, I went into it a bit before, but the reason you generally have no more than medium lasers on your arms is because they are expendable, and if you brawl properly, you should and often WILL lose them first. Once again, torso twisting is how you defend your CT.

Brawlers are out of the meta. Without SRMs, we're limited to medium lasers and Ac20s, which definately hampers our firepower. When SRMs come back, expect brawlers to return with a vengeance.

Any questions?

[Nehkrosis]

I agree for the most part, cept brawling still has its place, IMO.

[Tahribator]

pbiggz, on 17 January 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Actually I disagree with you in some respects there. If you're looking to brawl in earnest, the best place to start short of the king (atlas d-d-c) is an orion.

You're right. If someone experienced asked me for a good brawler, I'd suggest Orions in a heartbeat. I'm just afraid that someone not familiar with the pains of brawling might try it, play it like an Atlas thinking the armor might let him get away from mistakes, but it doesn't. The sides just take too much damage from side angles, that the Orion gets quickly disarmed under stress. You really need to be very conscious about where you're taking damage. Otherwise it leads to frustration after frustration and eventually the resulting "this mech is ****" opinion.

I tried to explain the new hitboxes here, if anyone wants to know what I'm talking about: http://raksarmory.bl...n-hitboxes.html

[Ngamok]

Tahribator, on 17 January 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Only support role that makes sense for them is LRM boating. Only the Protector can snipe well, thanks to its high E hardpoint.

OMG P2W !!!

[arghmace]

I mastered all my 3 Orions using XL engines. But since the hit box change I've been having a blast running this STD engine brawler:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...74a267b1fb540e3

It's not very fast, but the firepower is just so sweet once you get close. 64 alpha, boom. It has arm lasers for killing critters, AC and missiles for the big boys.

Since the hit box change, twisting like a mad man and using your arms to block (arm lock off!) can really spread the damage nowadays, imo. Not just everything to CT anymore. Most of the time I die with both side torsos or at least one of them gone.

So, to summarize: I really wouldn't count out the brawler role for the Orion.

Edited by arghmace, 17 January 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Flak Kannon]

Yes, first poster nailed it.

For me, It is best suited as mixed range support build.

I like being able to add an AutoKannon and on top of that 20-40 LRMs, AND on top of that 2 or 3 ML for a little more umph!


I have learned to enjoy my Onions after some hard knocks in the beginning.

I still enjoy the Brawler style, but one needs to play smart when closing to 270 meters or less to unleash the SRM's, ML, and AC20's... things can get HOT fast...

[pbiggz]

arghmace, on 17 January 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

I mastered all my 3 Orions using XL engines. But since the hit box change I've been having a blast running this STD engine brawler:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...74a267b1fb540e3

It's not very fast, but the firepower is just so sweet once you get close. 64 alpha, boom. It has arm lasers for killing critters, AC and missiles for the big boys.

Since the hit box change, twisting like a mad man and using your arms to block (arm lock off!) can really spread the damage nowadays, imo. Not just everything to CT anymore. Most of the time I die with both side torsos or at least one of them gone.

So, to summarize: I really wouldn't count out the brawler role for the Orion.

I have one suggestion for you, upgrade that engine to a 300. In a heavy, you want to go at least 70kph or you're walking like an assault, only you have the armor of a heavy. Other than that, you have the standard ON1-K brawler build (sans-srm while hit registration is on the fritz).

[RiotHero]

Well, since I last posted I have exactly 100 games in on my Orion V so I decided to check my progress with it.

My base stats for all mechs are:
K/D: .61
W/L: 1.06
XP per match:566.05

My stats for the Orion V
K/D: 1.68 (the only mech I have above 1 k/d)
W/L: 1.27
XP per match: 932.64
Average Damage per game: 427.57 (first mech above 400)

Every stat is far above any of my other mechs. I honestly don't know why the Orions get such a bad rap or why so many people are worried about XL engines in them. I've played every one of my games with an XL and I didn't even buy any Orion until after the hitbox changes. I think the extra fire power or in my case the ability to shoot longer because of extra heatsinks lets you get more done in a shorter time so the durability issue isn't that big of a deal. As long as you keep damage spread and then reposition your damaged side away from the enemy you can last long enough to do your part on your team. Also when you twist make sure you look up to get your arms up to take some abuse as well.

[Charons Little Helper]

I've had a lot of success running the Orion VA - not as a true brawler - but as XL brawler. I threw in an XL 360, 4 SRM6s & a couple large lasers. It books it at 85.5 kph - though admittedly - it can't outbrawl other brawlers going toe to toe (though it's fast enough that atlases have trouble keeping it in front of them )

Basically - instead of the of being a baby Atlas - it plays more like an overgrown hunchback. Though as others have said - the SRM hit reg issues make it's firepower a bit hit & miss. (literally)

[BadFortune]

Referring to the original question: I have no idea.

Had high hopes for the Orion first. I've tried and unlocked elite on 3 variants, and after massive investments they were all just big and slow targets with rather minimal inpact on the action going on. And I haven't seen any capable opponent either, except for some Protector builds.

I feel a whole lot more competent in any of my 65ton mechs.