184 replies to this topic

[Fut]

Deathlike, on 18 January 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

I thought it was actually NARC+Artemis.

It was in some patch notes or something.. or an explanation somewhere around the revamped "LRM arc" (the one where it was like DIVE DIVE DIVE).

Edit:
Found it - http://mwomercs.com/...23-21-may-2013/

Awesome. Thanks for digging this up.

Quote

The bonuses from TAG, Narc, and Artemis to gain and lose a missile lock have been corrected and now properly stack together.

- TAG decreases the time it takes to get a lock to 50% of the normal time, and increases the time it takes to lose a lock to 150% of the normal time.
- Narc decreases the time it takes to get a lock to 75% of the normal time, and increases the time it takes to lose a lock to 125% of the normal time.
- Artemis decreases the time it takes to get a lock to 50% of the normal time size when the Mech has line of sight to its target.
- Known Issue: Artemis equipped Mechs will always receive these bonuses, even without line of sight.
- Bonuses from TAG stack with those from Narc or Artemis, but an Artemis equipped Mech receives no bonuses from Narc Beacons
- e.g. TAG and Narc together reduce the time to achieve a missile lock to 37.5% of the normal time (50% of 75%).

TAG, Narc, and Artemis now reduce the size of the overall size and spread of the missile formations.

- TAG reduces the spread of missile formations to 75% of their normal size.
- Narc reduces the spread of missile formations to 75% of their normal size.
- Artemis reduces the spread of missile formations to 67% of their normal size when the Mech has line of sight to its target.
- Bonuses from TAG stack with those from Narc or Artemis, but an Artemis equipped Mech receives no bonuses from Narc Beacons.
- e.g. TAG and Narc together reduce the spread of missile formations to 56.3% of the normal size (75% of 75%).
- Known Issue: Mechs with Artemis will currently receive the spread reduction bonus from Narc beacons.

As for the topic itself, I love the idea of a more functional NARC!
At the very least, make the stupid beacon remain on the Targeted Mech for the entire time duration.

[Sandpit]

I'd just like to see more going on in the information warfare area I guess. Buffing the NARC a bit would help with that and give some of these light missile mechs a real buff overall also I suppose

[DocBach]

Sandpit, on 19 January 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

I'd just like to see more going on in the information warfare area I guess. Buffing the NARC a bit would help with that and give some of these light missile mechs a real buff overall also I suppose

Beyond Narc, Beagle needs to get a buff that puts it in line with functionality with ECM, something that would give it actual utility rather than just being ECM's off switch in the event ECM isn't present to counter. Right now, beyond ECM, all of information warfare is handled by modules which cost way more than ECM, Beagle or Narc - some of that power needs to come back to standard equipment without 6,000,000 c-bill price tags and hefty GXP requirements.

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Sandpit]

I dunno, I think BAP works well where it's at now. It is extremely useful for short range. If TAG were buffed then you have a longer range more universal aspect then you have stuff that works in tandem, works against, and works well all around without any one item being "op".

[DocBach]

Its extremely useful at short range only if ECM is present.

ECM is extremely useful even if Beagle is present until Beagle gets in range; if ECM is not present, Beagle doesn't really have a job.

[Deathlike]

DocBach, on 19 January 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Its extremely useful at short range only if ECM is present.

ECM is extremely useful even if Beagle is present until Beagle gets in range; if ECM is not present, Beagle doesn't really have a job.

Well, technically, the 25% info speed is nice... but the module is technically more useful.

[MustrumRidcully]

DocBach, on 19 January 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Its extremely useful at short range only if ECM is present.

ECM is extremely useful even if Beagle is present until Beagle gets in range; if ECM is not present, Beagle doesn't really have a job.

What would you suggest it to do?

IMO, the ability to detect disabled mechs could have a longer range, and the general range enhancements could be higher, too. But would that suffice?

[Deathlike]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 January 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

What would you suggest it to do?

IMO, the ability to detect disabled mechs could have a longer range, and the general range enhancements could be higher, too. But would that suffice?

TBH, it should try to cut through some of the ECM cloaking range (whether it is the carrier or the beneficiary of the cloak). Although, that makes it sorely dependent on ECM, but the idea is to mitigate the effect of multi-ECM cloaking efforts. It would still only be able to disable 1 within range, but cutting through some of the cloaked targets would be a plus.

[PanzerMagier]

PGI will never implement any of these suggestions for narc because:
1. It's effective
2. It's intuitive
3. It promotes strategy
4. It improves gameplay balance

[DocBach]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 January 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

What would you suggest it to do?

IMO, the ability to detect disabled mechs could have a longer range, and the general range enhancements could be higher, too. But would that suffice?

In Battletech its their version of active radar, capable of probing enemy targets for more sensor information, hence "Active Probe."

It should function similarly to seismic sensors and be able to detect beyond visual range in a 120 meter range, and have the ability to have a more detailed readout of enemy 'Mechs, perhaps with a certain key you could get a popup screen that shows a mech layout similar to what we see in the 'Mech lab that shows the location of all the 'Mechs equipment, exact armor figures, engine type, heat, etc.

This ability, however, should be blocked when disrupted by ECM. Though ECM blocks these additional radar abilities, 'Mechs equipped with Beagle would still be able to target ECM protected 'Mechs when they are in LOS and in range of Beagle.

Just like ECM denies information, Beagle should gain it for a team.

[Prezimonto]

Deathlike, on 17 January 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

You could try, but noone complains about NARC. People complained about MGs to the high heavens. So... good luck with that.

No one complains about NARC, because it's sole purpose is to support a weapon's system that's essentially terrible 4 out of 5 solo games.

It's support for an underutilized weapon class, that has other better forms of support, including taking nothing and just LOOKING at the enemy and hitting "r" if they don't have ECM.

If NARC actively canceled ECM fields for 20 to 30 seconds, it's have it's only use on top of purely support, making it much more viable.

I also wouldn't mind if you're whole HUD lit up highlighting ECM bubbles with a pale color when the BAP insects with an ECM field... sort of a giant "we're over here" that you can't miss.

DocBach, on 19 January 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Its extremely useful at short range only if ECM is present.

ECM is extremely useful even if Beagle is present until Beagle gets in range; if ECM is not present, Beagle doesn't really have a job.

I think it should give you the seismic sensor effect, but either in a cone(with longer distance), or perhaps a rotating cone (radar ish) and the same distance. Something that's slightly worse than seismic, but still used to gather information.

Deathlike, on 20 January 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

TBH, it should try to cut through some of the ECM cloaking range (whether it is the carrier or the beneficiary of the cloak). Although, that makes it sorely dependent on ECM, but the idea is to mitigate the effect of multi-ECM cloaking efforts. It would still only be able to disable 1 within range, but cutting through some of the cloaked targets would be a plus.

I wouldn't mind if it acted as an imperfect destructive filter of ECM noise. So where ever it is (doesn't matter what mech it's on perhaps) it kills ECM fields in a 100m radius for the time limit. If it's on the ECM mech, it might decrease the overall bubble 100m (but not reveal the mech itself). Teams then would need to choose: bunch up or take cover. Either isn't a good choice, but it makes the decisions more layers in the match.

Edited by Prezimonto, 20 January 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Prezimonto]

double post

Edited by Prezimonto, 20 January 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[DocBach]

I really like the radar idea. On top of that, it would have various downsides compared to seismic, for one it would have its effects blocked against ECM, it would also take up critical slots and weight and could be destroyed and have shorter range.

[Prezimonto]

I kind of wish they'd introduce equipment that did everything we have modules for... or instead of just module slots, introduce equipment slots where you actually upgrade equipment on your mech.

Why not let (at least some subset of mechs) carry a UAV for a 0.5ton and a slot?
Why not let you upgrade your "sensors" pack in the head of your mech with Target Info Gathering? or maybe Target Decay?
... Now add a BAP.. it does what it normally does, and gives you an extra "sensors" module slot.

ect. ect. ect.

With the coming of factions, instead of paying XP for these things, you pay XP to gain rank in the faction (or just play) and different upgrades open up over time. Or you could always go play exorbinant fees and purchase electronics packages on the black market.

To bring this back to thread relevance: Give NARC a module slot, make some modules that upgrade it (increased ammo capacity, longer range by a bit, or perhaps even a "sensors" slot).

Edited by Prezimonto, 20 January 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Prezimonto, on 20 January 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

No one complains about NARC, because it's sole purpose is to support a weapon's system that's essentially terrible 4 out of 5 solo games.
I think it should give you the seismic sensor effect, but either in a cone(with longer distance), or perhaps a rotating cone (radar ish) and the same distance. Something that's slightly worse than seismic, but still used to gather information.

Oh, interesting idea...

Beagle Active Probe:
The Beagle Active Probe grants the following benefits:
o 25 % radar range
o Detects shut down mechs within 180m
The Beagle Active Probe can work in two modes:
o Counter Mode: The Beagle Active Probe counters one Jamming ECM within 180m.
o Tracking Mode: Tracking Mode focuses the BAP on a single selected target: The target remains targetetable at up to 50 % the Visual RADAR range. If the target is obscured by cover, objects, ECM or is shut down, it can still be detected if it is within 360m.
o Scanning Mode: Scanning Mode lets the BAP perform a thorough RADAR scan around the mech. A 45° cone performs a circular scan around the mech over a 10 second duration. While inside the cone, every mech is detected at 100 % normal radar range, and within 360m even if protected by ECM, shut down, behind cover or behind the mech.

ECM
In addition to the current modes, ECM also gains the "Decoy" mode:
o Decoy Mode: The ECM creates false RADAR contacts within a 180m radius around the mech, and obscures the ECM users own radar contact. Countered by BAP in scanning mode.

[Krujiente]

I agree with OP and am demonstrating this with yammering of a non-helpful manner and a Iiking of his post.

[Sug]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 January 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

What would you suggest it to do?

I dunno. Maybe BAP could enhance the vision modes. Maybe a limited short range visual que that a target is behind something when using thermal or heat vision.

[DocBach]

See through vision is suppose to be coming with MagScan sensor modes, right?

[MustrumRidcully]

DocBach, on 21 January 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

See through vision is suppose to be coming with MagScan sensor modes, right?

Could be. I mean, what could it be doing that doesn't do the same as Seismic, if not that?

[DocBach]

More or less, I see Beagle as a poor man's modules - it does the same thing as a lot of modules (target information gathering, sensor range), The seismic ability would be another lite-module ability, but would be countered by ECM, require tonnage and space, and not take a month worth of GXP to unlock.

I really, really think we need the ability to gain more information on the enemy, and I think giving Probing ability to the Active Probe to give a more in depth look of 'Mechs could be useful.

Raven 3L 'Mech behind cover is scanning a key avenue of approach, hiding himself from enemy Beagle sensors with an ECM suite. His Beagle Active Probe detects a couple sensor hits; he quickly cycles through them, probing them with his advanced sensors and discovers which one of them have weaknesses

"Target A is a Cataphract with 18 points of armor on his legs - got two tons of AC/10 ammo in each of them, Target B is a Misery with an XL and only has 8 rear side torso armor - can we get a light on him?"