121 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

A key vid to watch on this subject, its one that has been posted around already a few times but it seems like most have not seen or bothered to watch it, much less understand it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w



Another one here is Balancing for Skill, teaching you (players and devs) how to spot issues in a system and how to help in suggesting (players) fixes or finding them yourself (devs). This vid speaks VOLUMES to everyone in the gaming community, and applies even more to this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w


These two vids done by Extra Credits are goldmines of learning about game-play balance and what to do about it when something goes horridly wrong. Screaming for Nerf X gun or YY power is NOT the way to get things adjusted or changed. Thinking about how to defeat or beat X gun or Y use of a mech will go MILES when thinking of how to beat your opponents and helps even more when building a mech. Weapons are just tools, how you use them is up to you and your opponents, just because it seems like PPC/Gauss are "OP" or are "overused" doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. Just means you need to think differently from them, to break away, maybe use an AC20 to get up close to those people. Use cover till such a time that presents itself for you to walk in and pour our hot death with MPL's or AC20's. This game IS a thinking mans shooter, and the thinking STARTS in the mechlab.

As a bonus vid this one shows (mostly aimed at devs) depth vs complexity, something that all BT fans (those that did TT) should know very well. WH40k has a lot of rules one must learn before you even START to play a game, most can be learned while playing in the first 20 min of a TT game (charts....lots and lots of charts to memorize).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI4Gs9Gt2Iw

[Joseph Mallan]

There is no game to balance. There is only 'The Grind'.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

You ought to trade mark that quote Joe.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 January 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

There is no game to balance. There is only 'The Grind'.

But the "Grind" must be done subtly. Otherwise those that get "Grinded", come here and scream of those who would be the "Evil 4-manners".

So "Grind" responsibly please.

[Joseph Mallan]

I have spent the last 4 days grinding 5 Characters in SWTOR. At least there I get to actually earn swag, Rank, An a feeling of accomplishment. All I get here is C-Bills.

[colsan]

OK, let's talk about the ECM wolfpack:

Lasers don't do concentrated enough damage to take out a leg before they kill you; you have to get super-lucky to hit them with ballistics; even more so with SRMs, and even if they hit, they don't alway count (especially against certain light chassis'); and, of course, streaks and LRMs are countered by ECM.

The devs aren't going to fix it; incapable or unwilling, it doesn't matter and I no longer care. They set it up this way, with clearly obvious consequences, and have said nothing that even hints that they are considering doing anything about it.

Other than talking my friends into playing again (unlikely) or joining a group of strangers (ugh), in either case with the intent of running our own ECM wolfpack, what is the solution?

The game has a sickness at its heart, and nothing is going to work right until the rot is cut out.

[Mechteric]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 January 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

I have spent the last 4 days grinding 5 Characters in SWTOR. At least there I get to actually earn swag, Rank, An a feeling of accomplishment. All I get here is C-Bills.

who needs a "Masochistic Medium Laser of Murder +1" to feel like they've accomplished something?

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 02 January 2014 - 12:02 PM.

[Varent]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

OK, let's talk about the ECM wolfpack:

Lasers don't do concentrated enough damage to take out a leg before they kill you; you have to get super-lucky to hit them with ballistics; even more so with SRMs, and even if they hit, they don't alway count (especially against certain light chassis'); and, of course, streaks and LRMs are countered by ECM.

The devs aren't going to fix it; incapable or unwilling, it doesn't matter and I no longer care. They set it up this way, with clearly obvious consequences, and have said nothing that even hints that they are considering doing anything about it.

Other than talking my friends into playing again (unlikely) or joining a group of strangers (ugh), in either case with the intent of running our own ECM wolfpack, what is the solution?

The game has a sickness at its heart, and nothing is going to work right until the rot is cut out.

run a medium light killing wolf pack with beagles streaks and medium lasers as well?

Had a ton of fun with that.

[Joseph Mallan]

CapperDeluxe, on 02 January 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

who needs a "Masochistic Medium Laser of Murder +1" to feel like they've accomplished something?

You don't, but that Pretty Pink Vorpal Pulse laser of prettiness will fetch you a handsome chunk of coin on the open market!

[colsan]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

run a medium light killing wolf pack with beagles streaks and medium lasers as well?

Had a ton of fun with that.

And if you're actually fighting more than one? What then?

[Varent]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

And if you're actually fighting more than one? What then?

light wolf pack vs medium wolf pack of light killers = mediums win?

That said most good light killer focused mediums can take on about 2 lights by themselves. if you just run 2 of those together you and a buddy your usually good.

[colsan]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

light wolf pack vs medium wolf pack of light killers = mediums win?

That said most good light killer focused mediums can take on about 2 lights by themselves. if you just run 2 of those together you and a buddy your usually good.

Again, with what weapons? Lasers won't do enough concentrated damage, ballistics only hit if you get lucky, and missiles are out of the question.

[Mcgral18]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Again, with what weapons? Lasers won't do enough concentrated damage, ballistics only hit if you get lucky, and missiles are out of the question.

Streaks work wonders since they are pretty much auto hit and do 2.5 compared to SRMs 2.0.

Lasers and ballistics for the most part work fine, just have to aim them correctly. Bring an LB10 if that doesn't work for you, you're bound to hit something.

[Varent]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Again, with what weapons? Lasers won't do enough concentrated damage, ballistics only hit if you get lucky, and missiles are out of the question.

ok do the math, lets say four ecm lights...

lets go with four example 4 shadow hawk... 4 kintaro... 4 centurion.... 4 wolverine.. 4 griffein... etc etc... any of those will do. Put all your missle systems to ssrm. Run a beagle in each of them (counter the ecm) and maybe toss on an lbx or two, super large fast engines and some medium lasers and your ready to hunt?

[YueFei]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Again, with what weapons? Lasers won't do enough concentrated damage, ballistics only hit if you get lucky, and missiles are out of the question.

Once you get better at aiming, you can focus the lasers on the light mechs quite well at close ranges. And you'll be able to hit them with ballistics, too. It doesn't take luck, just practice.

I was driving a Jenner for a few weeks. One weakness of Light mechs is typically the reliance on lasers. If you shoot when he shoots, he either holds the beam on you and travels a predictable path for you to hold your lasers on him, or he breaks off mid-beam and wastes his own shot.

When I first started driving the Jenner I could jump back and forth literally in front of enemies and laser them over and over again with near impunity. As I started winning matches I started to face pilots with better aim. Now, if I try jump strafing attack runs in front of people, even jumping laterally at 150kph, I get hit and hit hard. I can jump peek for a quick look and get away with it if they are looking at me, but if I jump higher to try to get the altitude for a full 1 second beam duration shot, I get swatted.

Don't complain about getting killed by 4 Light mechs when you are alone. In a 4v1, the 4 should win.

[colsan]

Ha, ha.

Anyone want to be serious? Or more amateur hour humor?

[Varent]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Ha, ha.

Anyone want to be serious? Or more amateur hour humor?

I wasnt being humorous at all... if you dont think it will work try it first. You will have a blast, trust me.

[YueFei]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Ha, ha.

Anyone want to be serious? Or more amateur hour humor?

I hope you enjoy never getting any better at anything in life with that attitude you give to people who try to teach you things after you specifically asked for advice. LOL.

[Dock Steward]

colsan, on 02 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Ha, ha.

Anyone want to be serious? Or more amateur hour humor?

Some players complain that Veteran MWO players do nothing to help newer players. Then they try to, and get this^^. No wonder so many Vets don't care to try anymore.

[Dan Nashe]

Light packs are extremely powerful at low elo, but killed fairly easily at high elo.
I have days where I can hit spiders with ac 20s and days where I can't.

Light swarms are more than the sum of their parts because they can focus fire and avoid being focus fired. But 1 on 1 medium light killers can take em. Of course, that leaves your heavies fighting assaults...

Honestly, it mostly boils down to better aim and no srms.
I've beaten 12 man light teams in organized 12s on conquest even. It just takes team work, which is often lacking in Pugs, but is not totally absent.

Light killing mediums are legit though.