303 replies to this topic

[babadude71]

So for a new player to have a pleasant experience is to join a clan, communicate through team speak so that various tactica, map knowledge and hit location information can be explained to the new player........

Player based tutorial right!!!

Any how this is all well and good providing you can find the right clan for you and the relevant info on the forums, not everyone is computer literate and some dont like to use forums (after reading through this thread alone i cant blame them). I would however like to thank everyone for their input no matter how constructive or destructive they may have been, i think the thread dissolved into a bitching match from about page 4 or 5.

Cya all on the battle field at some point no doubt.......

[BLOOD WOLF]

Damia Savon, on 02 January 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

I decided not to read and reread the same stuff over and over again.... so my worthless 2 cbills.

1) Stomps are going to happen no matter what. I don't care if it is 12 Pugs v 12 Pugs or 12 premade teams v another 12 man team.

2) Communication definitely help in any situation. It is not the be all and end all though. Basic voice talk with your team would be a help *if people can be civilized and actually talk*. Right now at the start of most matches people can be friendly. I've had people start off insulting their team before the first shot is fired. I've had others start screaming and blaming the team the minute they die, even though it was their own dang fault they ran right into the enemy line. I've had others predict utter doom and gloom and everyone was gonna die in the first 5 second because the team did not do what they said or reach a point soon enough. People can be idiots, jerks, and whatever else you want to come up with in text chat as it is. Exactly why do you think that voice is going to suddenly change this?

Honestly I think team voice chat will just lead to verbal trash talking, insulting and so forth. Some will be adults and try to communicate but probably half the team will just insult the rest and do whatever they want.

3) Even if everyone is mature, communication does not replace skill. You can try to coordinate your fire. You can shout warnings. You can talk dirty if you want but that makes no difference if you keep dropping your LRMs into a wall, run your mechs off a cliff, or consistently miss with your AC. Talking is not substitute for skill. You get skill via playing and not blathering over a comm.

4) Teamwork skils are not the same as individual skills. Someone may be an awesome pilot but get owned by a team. Other times the skill of one pilot is good enough to kill one or two team members and thus make the rest vulnerable. Nothing is going to change that.

5) Information *is* available in game. For example, *IF YOU TARGET* you not only identify the location and other information of the target to your teammates but you also gain valuable information regarding the enemy's health and weaponry. If you pay attention to that, then you know where to properly shoot your target to take it out or decide if you want to take it on at all. If I am running a light, I don't want to go toe to toe with a streak Stalker if I can help it.

You have targeting information. You have triangles showing you where your team is. You have triangles showing the enemy team. IF you pay attention to this information then you can fight effectively. If you ignore it then you can die pathetically.

6) You are not going to please everyone. There are the forums here where a new player can find good info, though the vitriol and negativity probably will drive them away faster than losing. There are good tutorials on the site now and elsewhere. I learned a bit from the person who brought me to this game and I read the posts, watched the tutorials. Most of all I just played. I learned from dying a lot what not to do. I spectated and watched how others acted and reacted. I learned.

It took time. I was pathetic, still am too. My KDR is less then 50% but its steadily getting better. No amount of communication is going to catapult me into MWO godhood.

7) Premades - all premades are not the same. Some are totally serious with mechs all decked out the same, regular practice times, rigid rules and so forth. Some are more casual than that , while others are just friends who like to hang out and drop together. Shockingly not all of them use comms. As I type this between matches, I'm in a group where I am the only one not with a comm. Yet I am still pretty effective because I pay attention to what my lance mates are doing. I can see where they are going. I can follow the red triangles. I back them up. Because they are smart enough to use the basic tools every player can access, I am still an effective member even if I cannot hear a word they say.

Pre-made players blaming PUGS for their death or a loss is just as stupid and bad as lone wolves blaming premades for every loss.

I urge people to read this. Im not demanding, value the words for what they mean, and the truth behind it. If your arrogant than make a excuse not to read this. I honestly am astonished that some of the most influential post have been in MMO forums but bravo

babadude71, on 02 January 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

So for a new player to have a pleasant experience is to join a clan, communicate through team speak so that various tactica, map knowledge and hit location information can be explained to the new player........

Player based tutorial right!!!

Any how this is all well and good providing you can find the right clan for you and the relevant info on the forums, not everyone is computer literate and some dont like to use forums (after reading through this thread alone i cant blame them). I would however like to thank everyone for their input no matter how constructive or destructive they may have been, i think the thread dissolved into a bitching match from about page 4 or 5.

Cya all on the battle field at some point no doubt.......

you can join a clan for a little while if they let you, you dont have to stay.

[Mycrus]

babadude71, on 02 January 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

This is all to common,
How is this helping new players want to keep playing?

may i interest you in my collection of 12-0 gamez?

http://mwomercs.com/...2-0-thread-f8l/

[BLOOD WOLF]

Just because someone doesn't want to join one of your groups doesn't mean you should call them pugs. sounds like your demeaning someone.

[Michael Abt]

First time i heard PUG, Pick Up Group, was a bit over 12 years ago in Dark Age of Camelot. There it was literal - a group picking up random players to get all slots filled fast so they can be back into action asap.

Nowadays it means you are playing with one more more strangers, random players. In other games you may be able to narrow down a target class/role. In MWO the MM tries to narrow that down with weight watcher and ELO.

[Dock Steward]

Michael Abt, on 02 January 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

First time i heard PUG, Pick Up Group, was a bit over 12 years ago in Dark Age of Camelot. There it was literal - a group picking up random players to get all slots filled fast so they can be back into action asap.

Nowadays it means you are playing with one more more strangers, random players. In other games you may be able to narrow down a target class/role. In MWO the MM tries to narrow that down with weight watcher and ELO.

Please don't start this again.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Michael Abt, on 02 January 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

First time i heard PUG, Pick Up Group, was a bit over 12 years ago in Dark Age of Camelot. There it was literal - a group picking up random players to get all slots filled fast so they can be back into action asap.

Nowadays it means you are playing with one more more strangers, random players. In other games you may be able to narrow down a target class/role. In MWO the MM tries to narrow that down with weight watcher and ELO.

yep back then it was actually pugging

[Sandpit]

Dock Steward, on 02 January 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

Please don't start this again.

+1
It isn't contributing to what is actually becoming a somewhat constructive conversation

It was already answered and defined as to what it means to THIS community. It doesn't matter what it meant 5 10 20 years ago in another community

[C E Dwyer]

BLOOD WOLF, on 02 January 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

I advise players to get better and to play their roles well. You know what my teamates always say when we lose matches, we talk about what we could have done better(clan wolf) at least for when im on. To improve yourself is the key. Also try your best to help instruct other players of how they could be better in the field

Like to think this will happen but its tiresome to be in teams 2 down at the start, its tiresome to be in teams that win, because your team has 7 assaults to the other team's 3, its frustrating to have 4 disconnects in a single game and its utterly disgusting that PGI's so called match maker puts teams with no assaults against teams with 6, all these happend in my 10 matches i played tonight.

I download and reactivated my old Everquest2 account tonight, that states pretty clearly how fed up I am with this Bull, and the money I spent means PGI didn't get it, if I get to the level of reactivating guildbores2 or Startrek online then my days here are over.. not so much the GW2 but the STO is feeling tempting right now

[BLOOD WOLF]

Dock Steward, on 02 January 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

Please don't start this again.

dont offend their sacred word, they know MWO doesnt work for it but they can dream

Cathy, on 02 January 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Like to think this will happen but its tiresome to be in teams 2 down at the start, its tiresome to be in teams that win, because your team has 7 assaults to the other team's 3, its frustrating to have 4 disconnects in a single game and its utterly disgusting that PGI's so called match maker puts teams with no assaults against teams with 6, all these happend in my 10 matches i played tonight.

I download and reactivated my old Everquest2 account tonight, that states pretty clearly how fed up I am with this Bull, and the money I spent means PGI didn't get it, if I get to the level of reactivating guildbores2 or Startrek online then my days here are over.. not so much the GW2 but the STO is feeling tempting right now

been playing for 5 hrs and i never been in a match me or my team couldn't win

-PS, use terms and words correctly

[Sandpit]

Cathy, on 02 January 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Like to think this will happen but its tiresome to be in teams 2 down at the start, its tiresome to be in teams that win, because your team has 7 assaults to the other team's 3, its frustrating to have 4 disconnects in a single game and its utterly disgusting that PGI's so called match maker puts teams with no assaults against teams with 6, all these happend in my 10 matches i played tonight.

I download and reactivated my old Everquest2 account tonight, that states pretty clearly how fed up I am with this Bull, and the money I spent means PGI didn't get it, if I get to the level of reactivating guildbores2 or Startrek online then my days here are over.. not so much the GW2 but the STO is feeling tempting right now

Now overall frustration with the mm when it comes to some of this I agree with.
Tonnage disparity comes about from Elo being the primary mm basis though in my opinion.
All things equal tonnage should be secondary to elo. The problem being all things are never equal. That's the problem in basing an mm system in a game that has so many different variables such as weight, weapons, and chassis
I really think the coming tonnage limits will help alleviate those kinds of drops though

[Michael Abt]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

+1
It isn't contributing to what is actually becoming a somewhat constructive conversation

It was already answered and defined as to what it means to THIS community. It doesn't matter what it meant 5 10 20 years ago in another community

Actually it does. Even a 'random' premade -just gathered on a TS server- has the advantage of communication. New players usually start as PUG though and therefore chose the highest 'difficulty level', so to speak, without knowing. The results may discourage them to stick around, especially these days with so many other games available. They just move on.

History repeats if we are not willing to learn from it, or from other communities 5 10 20 years ago. Since the first MMO/FPS there have been so many attempts and approaches to fix that problem, and each game has to find its own solution.

From what i can tell from these forums is that there are many players who are not happy with the current state of matchmaking. However, it has many different reasons and therefore there is no simple solution.

Edited by Michael Abt, 02 January 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

babadude71, on 02 January 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

So for a new player to have a pleasant experience is to join a clan, communicate through team speak so that various tactica, map knowledge and hit location information can be explained to the new player........

Player based tutorial right!!!

Any how this is all well and good providing you can find the right clan for you and the relevant info on the forums, not everyone is computer literate and some dont like to use forums (after reading through this thread alone i cant blame them). I would however like to thank everyone for their input no matter how constructive or destructive they may have been, i think the thread dissolved into a bitching match from about page 4 or 5.

Cya all on the battle field at some point no doubt.......

Nope that's not the only way. There is no ONLY WAY, because people are different. Thus we have multiple suggestions for how to improve you experience.

The reason it seems like the only way is because you hear it so often, and that's because it works for most people who try it.

I've enjoyed MP FPS games before with zero friends, no clan etc, and played for a long time.But it these days I would seek out help before slugging thru it all by myself. But to each his own is my point.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Michael Abt, on 02 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Actually it does. Even a 'random' premade -just gathered on a TS server- has the advantage of communication. New players usually start as PUG though and therefore chose the highest 'difficulty level', so to speak, without knowing. The results may discourage them to stick around, especially these days with so many other games available. They just move on.

History repeats if we are not willing to learn from it, or from other communities 5 10 20 years ago. Since the first MMO/FPS there have been so many attempts and approaches to fix that problem, and each game has to find its own solution.

From what i can tell from these forums is that there are many players who are not happy with the current state of matchmaking. However, it has many different reasons and therefore there is no simple solution.

And what's the problem with playing on a high difficulty level? Especially since it's effectively random each time.

Variety in other words. I really and truly don't understand this attitude applied to MP gaming. If you want to play a MP game solo, then you have to expect an uphill battle.

[Sandpit]

Michael Abt, on 02 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Actually it does. Even a 'random' premade -just gathered on a TS server- has the advantage of communication. New players usually start as PUG though and therefore chose the highest 'difficulty level', so to speak, without knowing. The results may discourage them to stick around, especially these days with so many other games available. They just move on.

History repeats if we are not willing to learn from it, or from other communities 5 10 20 years ago. Since the first MMO/FPS there have been so many attempts and approaches to fix that problem, and each game has to find its own solution.

From what i can tell from these forums is that there are many players who are not happy with the current state of matchmaking. However, it has many different reasons and therefore there is no simple solution.

All good constructive points
None of them have anything to do with the same person arguing the definition of pug repeatedly after being explained as to what it means in this community

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

All good constructive points
None of them have anything to do with the same person arguing the definition of pug repeatedly after being explained as to what it means in this community

what it means to the community, or what it means to the people who are ignorant enough to use it without sense. I not once heard any of the mates i group with use the word pug in the way the so called community does, once in a joke i think but that's it. One the note, sounds like you agree with me, A strong few are not the community.

Just because its common doesn't mean its correct.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 02 January 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

that's a pre-made vs premade. clan wolf vs robison rangers. is it so much different than any other game

[Michael Abt]

Nick Makiaveli, on 02 January 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

And what's the problem with playing on a high difficulty level? Especially since it's effectively random each time.

Variety in other words. I really and truly don't understand this attitude applied to MP gaming. If you want to play a MP game solo, then you have to expect an uphill battle.

From a business point of view it means: "Know your target group". The biggest group by far is the casual players, those who start solo. Even though MWO is team orientated that is not mandatory to play it. When the entry difficulty is too high those new, solo casuals do not stick around to learn the ropes, they just move on to another game. If you want them to stay you have to adjust the difficulty.

Fixing the matchmaker for example would be one step. Someone suggested player tutorials which is nice idea.

[babadude71]

so i think that the new payer experience is vital to the longevity of this game, if it is dependent on community funds i.e players buying stuff with real money than it is essential to maintain a relatively large pool of players.

With the experience the new players are getting at the moment isnt what i would call encouraging or a very pleasant introduction to the game, but there are some experienced players that see no problem with that, but at the end of the day its not their company that needs the injection of cash to keep it going so what do they care if new players leave or stay, so with this type of attitude would it bother you if you went to log onto to the game and all you got was server error, goto the website where it clearly states
"servers have been shut down due to lack of player interest."
Is this what you are after?
Would you of wished that you had safe guarded the new player experience to ensure the game remains functional, instead of telling new players that they didnt need any help in understanding how to play the game all because you didnt?

I think it is far better to be pro-active instead of reactive, just because thats how you learnt how to play the game does it then make it right for others to learn it that way also?

I know it would require some programming and time and maybe some extra staff but, put some of the smaller maps aside (2 should be enough) with some A.I mechs roaming around and allow that area for all sorts of purposes, very similar to the training grounds now, that alone would allow a new player to get accustom to mech controls and weapon load outs, movement skills, using jump jets and experience terrain hazards such as climbing etc, also learn how to take cover from LRM fire, counter act ecm and learn some of the technical aspects of the game, as well as aiming techniques against moving targets.

It may solve a few issues already outlined in this thread, it will also prepare the new players for 12 v 12 matches, again i think that new players should experience the 8 v 8 that i have heard alot of you talk about, it will be a good incentive to keep them playing and more importantly spending real money.
I also think that the experienced player wont feel as though they have been dealt a bum hand of mechs and dis-heartened that they will have to carry yet another batch of noobs. I believe that something like this needs to be introduced into the game to give a pool of players a chance to build so that the match making system can be tested fully and properly and give a more polished and competent feel to the whole MWO experience, but i do understand that before any of this can take place the development team need to put outstanding in-game content top of their priority list and hopefully bring this game back to the front of the F2P game title list.

[Mystere]

As a 100% solo player myself, I have a suggestion to new players ...

Pretend you are playing the Mechwarrior version of Dark Souls. If you persevere, you will get better and eventually slay the big bad monster.