39 replies to this topic

[Bogdan Kobzar]

Would someone explain to this noob (me)
why in a snipping dual at a range of 790
me in a CTF-3D with dual ER PPC
my opponent with ER LARGE LASER
I got destroyed? (destroyed by ER LARGE LASER said the screen)
(I was using the 4x zoom and targeting on center torso)

The 'specs' call the effective range of the ER PPC at 810
and the effective range of the ER LARGE LASER at 675

Is this a 'funtion' that the ER PPC calculates hits as a ballistic vs the ER LARGE LASER calculating hits as an energy, so the hit boxes are calculated differently?

Also, if you would be so inclined, what weapons do and don't work in the current patch level?
Especially, which weapon system(s) I should avoid using in my Cataphract's?

I'd like to get my Kill/Death Ratio higher than my current 0.15
Incidentally my Kills / Deaths stat is (38 / 259)

Thanks in advance.

[Mechteric]

Well if you missed the enemy with your PPC you do zero damage. If he misses you with large laser he has a full second to swipe it to hit you for at least partial damage.

I'd recommend not using the 4x advanced zoom module, I've seen (mostly new) people use it and miss too much.


Out of curiosity, in your Weapon Stats page in your Profile, what is your accuracy % with PPC/ERPPC?

Mine is 61.85% for ER and 60.66% with standard PPC.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 03 January 2014 - 01:20 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

The ERLL is a good weapon for it's damage:heat:weight. compared to the ERPPC it's lighter so you have weight for more heat sinks. The ERLL generally run cooler than a PPC and a lot cooler than an ERPPC, so the guy with ERLLs can fire more often before stopping to cool down than the ERPPCs. The benefit if PPCs/ERPPC lies in their pinpoint damage, but that's only in your favour if you don't miss.

hitboxes are not different for Ballistics& PPCs than they are for lasers, but if you're missing the pinpoint damage you deal none; if your lasers are slightly off-aim you can adjust the beam during the beam duration for partial damage.

As for weapons not to use, I would suggest not using flamers or large pulse lasers. ERPPCs may simply run too hot for you if you do not have your mech fully skilled, and generally ERPPCs are very punishing if you miss shots (high risk:reward) because they're so damn hot.

Medium lasers, large lasers, PPC, any ballistic weapon, they're all fine for a Cataphract. Honestly I would suggest looking at ballistics and not ERPPC if you have a CTF-3D since you can get much better heat:damage with a ballistic, and use your energy slots for some medium lasers for backup. Mechspecs will give you tons of build ideas for any mech variant.

[Deathz Jester]

The "effective" range is misleading, yes you're more likely to do full damage and stay on target, but the maximum range of the ER PPC and ER Large Laser is almost double the "effective" range. I'd say for efficiency's sake the Laser is more effective at dealing damage and having less heat, for the sake of having a long ranged weapon that disables ECM (temporarily) then the ER PPC is better.

[Pinko Zinko]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 January 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Well if you missed the enemy with your PPC you do zero damage. If he misses you with large laser he has a full second to swipe it to hit you for at least partial damage.

I'd recommend not using the 4x advanced zoom module, I've seen (mostly new) people use it and miss too much.


Out of curiosity, in your Weapon Stats page in your Profile, what is your accuracy % with PPC/ERPPC?

Mine is 61.85% for ER and 60.66% with standard PPC.

Good point, especially this comparison: ERPPC vs ERLL. My ERLL is about 21% more accurate.

[Bogdan Kobzar]

Thank you all so very much.
I'll need to take a closer look to see if I'm 'overusing' the 4x zoom.
As to accuracy stat's per weapon, I didn't know it was there, thanks for pointing it out.
This'll be a great help to 'tweak' my gaming style.
Weapon.......Accuracy......Avg Damage per Hit..times fired..times hit
ER PPC.........57.44%.......10................................531..............305
PPC...............33.65%.......10................................416..............140
Large Laser...73.63%.........4................................728..............536
Gauss Rifle.....58.04%......14................................112................65
AC/10.............45.55%.......10................................944..............430
AC/5...............49.46%........5.................................2,744..........1,349

Hmmm, at first look, it seems like I'm better with lasers, until I look at the times fired/times hit
Thanks again for pointing this stats section in my profile out to me.

* I added extra columns of information, yes I'm new and it shows
thanks Overlord/Junkman7mgt for pointing out the damage per shot

Edited by Bogdan Kobzar, 03 January 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Junkman7mgte]

Bogdan Kobzar, on 03 January 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Thank you all so very much.
I'll need to take a closer look to see if I'm 'overusing' the 4x zoom.
As to accuracy stat's per weapon, I didn't know it was there, thanks for pointing it out.
This'll be a great help to 'tweak' my gaming style.
ER PPC 57.44%
PPC 33.65%
Large Laser 73.63%
Gauss Rifle 58.04%
AC/10 45.55%
AC/5 49.46%

Hmmm, looks like I'm better with lasers than ballistics at this point in time.
Thanks again for pointing this stats section in my profile out to me.

You are better with lasers, more than likely because .... Even if you sweep a target for 0.1 damage, it registers as contact. Take that LL stat, look at how many times fired, and the total damage. Now do the same with the AC10 "both are at least similar total damage" .... How much damage per shot have each done ?

Edited by Junkman7mgte, 03 January 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

PPCs are still good weapons, when used correctly. Try coupling a PPC with an AC 10 or AC 5 in your 'pract. Say, in the right torso.

[Redshift2k5]

PPCs are great, and the CTF-3C has nice high-mounted & symmetrical energy mounts in the shoulders. But, for a new player still working on their accuracy at range beam weapons may be preferable.

[Charons Little Helper]

Yeah - the ERPPC is really hot - generally only useful if your mech as a whole has heat to burn (so to speak ) or is a fast sniper build.

The only mech I have one on is a shadowhawk who's only other weapons are machine guns (no heat) and streaks (low heat). Though admittedly - I do have a preference for brawlers.

[Satan n stuff]

Pinko Zinko, on 03 January 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Good point, especially this comparison: ERPPC vs ERLL. My ERLL is about 21% more accurate.

That's because even a minor scratch counts as a hit. For lasers it's better to look at the average damage per shot, but if you're shooting beyond optimal range often that won't give you the whole story either.

[loopala]

Quote

I'd like to get my Kill/Death Ratio higher than my current 0.15
Incidentally my Kills / Deaths stat is (38 / 259)

As a newbe myself, I will comment on the k/d bit, as far as what I have found. (my k/d is 0.18 54/299, 366 games played) my k/d was very low till I figured out it is more about survival, then it is about kills. Yep I was sub .10 till about game 270 ish. I tend to be a bit of a berserker type. ie rush into battle and get killed a lot. Once I started to watch what the long lived players were doing and started to do that myself, I stopped dying in the first minute and a half. You know what? My kills started to rack up. Is 0.18 great? Nope but I went from averaging less the 100 damage a game to averaging 275 per game. More dmg = more kills. Also after 5 minutes having 75% armor left puts you in a very good position to win a brawl or 2. let the missile boats do their thing, let the lights scout, use cover and duck a lot. Oh and don't get caught alone in a highlander, a couple of spiders will have you for lunch.


As I am piloting highlanders right now, (long story to do with xp earned in a 733c(c) I find the erppc to be much more useful to me them the large laser. I have a higher hit percentage with the LL but I do more dmg with fewer hit with the erppc. Have to play around and find which suits your style better.

[Nick Makiaveli]

loopala, on 04 January 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

As a newbe myself, I will comment on the k/d bit, as far as what I have found. (my k/d is 0.18 54/299, 366 games played) my k/d was very low till I figured out it is more about survival, then it is about kills. Yep I was sub .10 till about game 270 ish. I tend to be a bit of a berserker type. ie rush into battle and get killed a lot. Once I started to watch what the long lived players were doing and started to do that myself, I stopped dying in the first minute and a half. You know what? My kills started to rack up. Is 0.18 great? Nope but I went from averaging less the 100 damage a game to averaging 275 per game. More dmg = more kills. Also after 5 minutes having 75% armor left puts you in a very good position to win a brawl or 2. let the missile boats do their thing, let the lights scout, use cover and duck a lot. Oh and don't get caught alone in a highlander, a couple of spiders will have you for lunch.


As I am piloting highlanders right now, (long story to do with xp earned in a 733c© I find the erppc to be much more useful to me them the large laser. I have a higher hit percentage with the LL but I do more dmg with fewer hit with the erppc. Have to play around and find which suits your style better.

Some good points, but I want to add that KDR is not a big deal in this game. I am not a great FPS guy, and it shows as (last time I looked which was months ago) my KDR was .31 or so. Guess what? Nobody cares.

This is a team based game. I don't care if I get any kills in a match. I'm not even too worried about how much damage I've done. I once got 3 kills and 7 assists with 179 damage in a Locust. I got shot up, and decided to distract the enemy so I ran right into their "formation" and had a blast! Confused the **** out of them, and got some lucky shots in. Point being, I didn't do it to raise my KDR (that was just a side effect as I actually lived thru it), I did it to help the team. I wanted to distract them so as to allow my teammates to get in some back shots, and help them close to brawling range as we were losing the sniper war. I fully expected to die, especially when I rounded the hill and called out they have a LRM stalker...make that 2...**** 3 of the ********!!! I think I ended the match with my MG ammo in single digits!!

Note I am not bragging, that was mostly those guys being all in heavies and assaults and having trouble shooting at me without hitting their own teammates, not to mention incredible dumb luck on my part. Protip: If you are running from one Assault mech, zigzag toward another one. Gives you a target and you might help generate a little Friendly Fire

Also, no one likes an Assault pilot that hides behind rocks to stay alive while his friends fight and die. Sure you can come out late game, rack a kill or three before going down in flames, but you still lost the match, and helped lose it for every one else too.

[Buckminster]

Bogdan Kobzar, on 03 January 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Thank you all so very much.
I'll need to take a closer look to see if I'm 'overusing' the 4x zoom.
As to accuracy stat's per weapon, I didn't know it was there, thanks for pointing it out.
This'll be a great help to 'tweak' my gaming style.
Weapon.......Accuracy......Avg Damage per Hit..times fired..times hit
ER PPC.........57.44%.......10................................531..............305
PPC...............33.65%.......10................................416..............140
Large Laser...73.63%.........4................................728..............536
Gauss Rifle.....58.04%......14................................112................65
AC/10.............45.55%.......10................................944..............430
AC/5...............49.46%........5.................................2,744..........1,349

Hmmm, at first look, it seems like I'm better with lasers, until I look at the times fired/times hit
Thanks again for pointing this stats section in my profile out to me.

* I added extra columns of information, yes I'm new and it shows
thanks Overlord/Junkman7mgt for pointing out the damage per shot

If this has been said, forgive me...

But looking at these numbers, I see a couple things. What it means really depends on what you are looking for in a weapon, but hear me out.

• Your hit% is greater with the LL
  
• Your damage per hit is greater with the PPC
  
• That 4 damage with the LL means you're only on target for about 45% of the beam duration

So there's a couple things you can take from this.

• First, using an LPL may help. It is shorter range and hotter, but with the shorter beam duration you may put more damage on target. A lot of people don't like them, so your mileage may vary.
  
• Maybe your accuracy is so low on the PPCs because you're target light, fast mechs. Keep them aimed at the big guys and you'll see your accuracy go up.
  
• Beam weapons are good against smaller targets so you can sweep, and the spread damage isn't as big a deal because they have less armour

Maybe what you should be doing is looking at combining weapon systems. Use ballistic styles (including PPCs) as your big damage against heavies and assaults, and pair them with some lasers to keep you going against smaller guys. Basically, rather than taking two PPCs or two LLs, take one of each. The different weapon systems may take some getting used to (definitely make sure they are on different weapon groupings), but once you get a grip on it, you should find it more effective.

[Bront]

Remember, if you got hit with, say, 3 or 4 ERLLs, it still only says 1 ERLL, so chances are you were getting hit with at least 2.

Also, PPCs and Balistic weapons have this tendancy to hit terrain in the distance, which is easier to see with lasers. You might have been damaging the ground in front of him.

[ImperialKnight]

Bogdan Kobzar, on 03 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Would someone explain to this noob (me)
why in a snipping dual at a range of 790
me in a CTF-3D with dual ER PPC
my opponent with ER LARGE LASER
I got destroyed? (destroyed by ER LARGE LASER said the screen)
(I was using the 4x zoom and targeting on center torso)

The 'specs' call the effective range of the ER PPC at 810
and the effective range of the ER LARGE LASER at 675

Is this a 'funtion' that the ER PPC calculates hits as a ballistic vs the ER LARGE LASER calculating hits as an energy, so the hit boxes are calculated differently?

Also, if you would be so inclined, what weapons do and don't work in the current patch level?
Especially, which weapon system(s) I should avoid using in my Cataphract's?

I'd like to get my Kill/Death Ratio higher than my current 0.15
Incidentally my Kills / Deaths stat is (38 / 259)

Thanks in advance.

To address OP's original question, ERLLs run cooler and hence can continue to deal damage over longer periods of time which matters in your sniping duel. Also, PPCs are harder to aim and keep damage on a single spot. Lasers are far superior in that department. For PPCs, a miss is a miss, even a hit can be a miss if the hit is not on the correct part. In a long range duel, half the shots that hit probably aren't hitting where you want them to.

Tip: When your enemy fires a laser, move your mouse like mad to spread the damage and make it harder to train the laser on one spot.

On your point about K/D, here's the obligatory "omg you n**b, k/d doesn't matter!!". But seriously, it doesn't.

There's only one sniping weapon in this game, it's called the LRM. Which is countered by ECMs. Though I guarantee you no mech packing ERLL/PPC/Gauss/AC will long range duel with you if you are firing 30 missiles into their face every 3 seconds

[Voivode]

Most everyone has answered your questions about the difference between ERLL and ERPPC, so I'll instead answer your second question about weapons in general.

Some have stated that there are certain weapons that are worthless in the game, which I would argue the opposite: every weapon is useful and has it's place. Some weapons take more skill than others.

A poster stated the flamer and large pulse laser were undesirable weapons. LPL don't have much range and generate a fair chunk of heat(8.25 like an ERLL), so a lot of people avoid them.

However, pulse lasers have more "punch" than standard lasers because they do their damage in a shorter burst. The LPL has a range of 300 meters and a recycle of 3.25 and a duration of 0.6, and the ML has a range of 270, a recycle of 3.0 and a duration of 1.0. These similar characteristics make LPL and ML excellent compliments in weapon group.

Flamers are definitely harder to use. I wouldn't suggest them on anything but a light, especially a fast light such as a Spider or Commando. Flamers generate heat on a curve. That is to say, for roughly two seconds a flamer generates no heat for your mech. After that free time is up your mech will gain heat very slowly at first and as you keep firing the rate of heat gain will increase exponentially. Using two flamers on chain fire will generate 0 heat for your mech. Since flamers do little damage the usefulness of this is in its harassment value. The heat you generate in an enemy mech and the ability to "blind" the enemy pilot by filling his viewscreen with flame shots. That mech then becomes a much easier target for the rest of your team and you can rack up damage with the non-flamer weapons your brought.

[AaronWolf]

From my perspective (That of a LP), I prefer ERLL.

But that may be because I come from MW2 and hated PPC's with a fervor ever since then.

But to explain why I like ERLL in this game: Less heat, damage alteration (Changing where I want the damage done), and lighter in general.

ERPPC/PPC's I think are more of a "Gunboat"/"Sniper" config. And I am mostly a "Spotter"/"Support"/"Harasser"

[G0ON]

One more item of note about PPC's vs lasers. PPCs fire a large wide beam, which I find contacts objects on it's path to the target far easier than lasers do. When this happens the whole PPC beam immediately explodes and comes to an abrupt end.

The draw back of this is that it's a lot more difficult to snipe with vs the tiny thin lasers, and you also have to expose more of your mech to get off a clean PPC shot.

Such a shame because PPC's have always been 'THE' weapon in Battletech for me. In MWO though I prefer Autocannons now instead.

[fuzzylogic01]

I have to do a little arguing.
My personal play style is harassment/sniper.
My favorite weapon is the ER PPC.
I have range and cooldown at level 5 for it, and use advanced zoom.
I typically stay way out of range of about everything else other than ER LLs and Gauss rifles.
But, at the range I usually fire from, the damage I take from ERLLs is negligible.
I don't waste space on AMS because I try to stay at 1200 distance.
I've been having a blast lately using a shadowcat with 2xErPPCs, ECM, active probe, tageting computer 1, ERPPC cooldown 5, ER PPC range 5.(Haven't unlocked extra module yet)
Consistent +500 damage in matchs.
But my best so far has been the same setup in an Ebon Jaguar with remaining weight made up with heat sinks. 1206 points of damage in that match.