44 replies to this topic

[Canniballistic]

Why are we still using this rediculous random chance BS instead of the heat system that was used in MW4.

The work is literally already done and still someone thinks its a good idea to have a weapon be completely random sometimes shooting 3 bullets or a chain of over 10 before jamming and other times (more often the case) you fire once and it jams!

Guns broken... been broken this whole time... still not fixed...

Use the system MW4 used already.

Edited by Canniballistic, 07 January 2014 - 12:48 AM.

[Varent]

love the UAC. Not sure why so many still feel the need to hate on it.

[Craig Steele]

Can they legally use a previous publishers work under the licence?

Pretty sure thats a copyright thing isn't it?

The BT owners don't inherit a licencees work to pass on to the next licencee I suspect.

Pretty sure you can still play MW4 though? I might re install it myself.

[Frankdark]

Canniballistic totaly agree with you.


But thats not the only point.
Balance is way off

also the did not think for the future.

Rotary also comming and what than.


Normal AC, Long Burst - Long Reload
Ultra AC, Short Burst - Short Reload - only small more dps
Rotary - Steam of Bullets like MG / or AC2

[Sephlock]

Craig Steele, on 07 January 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

Can they legally use a previous publishers work under the licence?

Pretty sure thats a copyright thing isn't it?

The BT owners don't inherit a licencees work to pass on to the next licencee I suspect.

Pretty sure you can still play MW4 though? I might re install it myself.

You aren't seriously arguing that there is some sort of legal protection preventing anyone from using that specific type of ...

No, nevermind.

Move along.

[Stormwolf]

Well, the jamming is a quirk that the Ultra A/C has always had, I'm quite surprised that PGI included it when so many other things are implemented poorly or just plain wrong.

Edited by Stormwolf, 07 January 2014 - 01:02 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

I love the UAC as well but it's pretty frustrating when it jams on the first shot of a match and every first shot after clearing a jam for the rest of the match. At that point the standard 5 comes out ahead. I try to only use it on bigger mechs where I can pair it with another UAC or an ac5 to compensate for jams.

[Sandpit]

The UAC mechanics work well in my opinion. The only thing I would change is the manner of the jam mechanic and unjam mechanic

[Craig Steele]

Please explain Sandpit?

[Mudhutwarrior]

UAC jamming seems random at best. I do well with them tapping them along but still get lots of first round jams. I do wonder if Macros correct this because I see some who just seem to not jam. Either that or I will never be any good at playing the drums.

[Lupin]

Odd I remember RAC jamming just as often as UAC in MW4.
Does anyone remember the Blood ASP and the 4 or 6 RAC loadout? At least I think it was that Mech that could do that loadout.

God help this game as basic weapons still not right and we are supposed to be 6 months away from Clan Tech.

[OneEyed Jack]

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 January 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

UAC jamming seems random at best. I do well with them tapping them along but still get lots of first round jams. I do wonder if Macros correct this because I see some who just seem to not jam. Either that or I will never be any good at playing the drums.

There may be a tap speed that's fast enough to always avoid jamming, but if there is, I can't do it either. A macro can definitely correct it, allowing one to fire at full single-shot rate without ever jamming, which I assume is because it can use a short-enough button press to avoid latency causing the server to read long enough presses for accidental double-tapping. Of course, it requires you have a separate button for when you do want to double-tap, since never double-tapping means you just spent extra weight/crits on an inferior AC5.

[Mudhutwarrior]

OneEyed Jack, on 07 January 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

There may be a tap speed that's fast enough to always avoid jamming, but if there is, I can't do it either. A macro can definitely correct it, allowing one to fire at full single-shot rate without ever jamming, which I assume is because it can use a short-enough button press to avoid latency causing the server to read long enough presses for accidental double-tapping. Of course, it requires you have a separate button for when you do want to double-tap, since never double-tapping means you just spent extra weight/crits on an inferior AC5.

Thanks, Just thought I was bad at it for quite a while.

[Corbon Zackery]

Probably because under the current rules people are creating macro's so that the gun does not jam after 3 or 4 shots.

The Jam percentage is to high for computer based games since a computer will always roll above avg.

[Sandpit]

Craig Steele, on 07 January 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Please explain Sandpit?

I wouldn't use an RNG for it. The RNG it's too random.

The problem with using an RNG in this particular situation is that due to its very nature it's entirely possible (and from converstaions with, observations, and personal use) not uncommon for it to jam repeatedly, back to back to back which just completely nullifies its advantage.

Instead of using strictly the RNG I would also use a sliding scale for the jam mechanism that progressively makes it more likely it will jam. Example:
First shot (using the rapid fire feature) = 10% chance to jam
Second = 25%
Third = 50%
Fourth 80%
Fifth 95%

Obviously those are just numbers for examples and could be adjusted but the RNG mechanic now gives you the same situation many fall into with map selection. Over long-term the RNG will even out but many times it will also create horrible runs where it constantly jams repeatedly (much akin to many of the "I played this map 50 times in a row the map selection is borked) which is actually just the RNG doing what an RNG does.

I would also have a timed but manual mechanic that was a bit more intuitive to unjam it that also worked on a sliding scale.
So for example:

UAC jams, there should be a simple button mechanic (not requiring players to program macros and such) that initiates the unjam. The weapon would not unjam until the player manually hits the button but on the first unjam it would clear the weapon at a slightly quicker speed than say the 5th unjam.
1st unjam player hits button, 5 seconds
2nd, 8 seconds
3rd, 10 seconds

Again all numbers are purely for example but I think it would be a better system than purely relying on the RNG

[Trauglodyte]

Varent, on 07 January 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

love the UAC. Not sure why so many still feel the need to hate on it.

Mostly because it is only good and reliable in groups. Try running a single UAC as your primary weapon and then talk about how much you love it. For that matter, let's all talk about how lame it is that it jams on a single shot when you're not trying to double up. Like, you know, how it was designed to work to AVOID jamming.

Sandpit, on 07 January 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

I wouldn't use an RNG for it. The RNG it's too random.

The problem with using an RNG in this particular situation is that due to its very nature it's entirely possible (and from converstaions with, observations, and personal use) not uncommon for it to jam repeatedly, back to back to back which just completely nullifies its advantage.

Instead of using strictly the RNG I would also use a sliding scale for the jam mechanism that progressively makes it more likely it will jam. Example:
First shot (using the rapid fire feature) = 10% chance to jam
Second = 25%
Third = 50%
Fourth 80%
Fifth 95%

Obviously those are just numbers for examples and could be adjusted but the RNG mechanic now gives you the same situation many fall into with map selection. Over long-term the RNG will even out but many times it will also create horrible runs where it constantly jams repeatedly (much akin to many of the "I played this map 50 times in a row the map selection is borked) which is actually just the RNG doing what an RNG does.

I would also have a timed but manual mechanic that was a bit more intuitive to unjam it that also worked on a sliding scale.
So for example:

UAC jams, there should be a simple button mechanic (not requiring players to program macros and such) that initiates the unjam. The weapon would not unjam until the player manually hits the button but on the first unjam it would clear the weapon at a slightly quicker speed than say the 5th unjam.
1st unjam player hits button, 5 seconds
2nd, 8 seconds
3rd, 10 seconds

Again all numbers are purely for example but I think it would be a better system than purely relying on the RNG

I'd actually keep the jam rate low for the UACs at like 5% but then add an additional 5% for each additional UAC equipped. You could then add an additional 5% chance to jam for each additional round beyond the normal. We don't have designated ammo bins for each weapon so we have to assume that each weapon draws from the same ammo bins. Therefore, each time you fire your UACs, you're drawing ammo from the same location through the same feed processes which would add to your chances of jamming. That makes it so that using a single UAC is acceptable without being completely horrible while also making multiple UACs dangerous without allowing macros to circumvent the intended jamming hinderance.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 07 January 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 07 January 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

I wouldn't use an RNG for it. The RNG it's too random.

The problem with using an RNG in this particular situation is that due to its very nature it's entirely possible (and from converstaions with, observations, and personal use) not uncommon for it to jam repeatedly, back to back to back which just completely nullifies its advantage.

Instead of using strictly the RNG I would also use a sliding scale for the jam mechanism that progressively makes it more likely it will jam. Example:
First shot (using the rapid fire feature) = 10% chance to jam
Second = 25%
Third = 50%
Fourth 80%
Fifth 95%

Obviously those are just numbers for examples and could be adjusted but the RNG mechanic now gives you the same situation many fall into with map selection. Over long-term the RNG will even out but many times it will also create horrible runs where it constantly jams repeatedly (much akin to many of the "I played this map 50 times in a row the map selection is borked) which is actually just the RNG doing what an RNG does.

I would also have a timed but manual mechanic that was a bit more intuitive to unjam it that also worked on a sliding scale.
So for example:

UAC jams, there should be a simple button mechanic (not requiring players to program macros and such) that initiates the unjam. The weapon would not unjam until the player manually hits the button but on the first unjam it would clear the weapon at a slightly quicker speed than say the 5th unjam.
1st unjam player hits button, 5 seconds
2nd, 8 seconds
3rd, 10 seconds

Again all numbers are purely for example but I think it would be a better system than purely relying on the RNG

I could get behind that completely.

[Trauglodyte]

I'd also like to see, when equipped, the UACs and LBs actually listed twice in weapons portion of the HUD. That way, you could have one group assigned to normal fire and scatter shot and nother group set to burst fire and slug. It would definitely be bulky depending on the build, but it would allow for everyone to play their weapons as they so choose.

[Sandpit]

Trauglodyte, on 07 January 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Mostly because it is only good and reliable in groups. Try running a single UAC as your primary weapon and then talk about how much you love it. For that matter, let's all talk about how lame it is that it jams on a single shot when you're not trying to double up. Like, you know, how it was designed to work to AVOID jamming.



I'd actually keep the jam rate low for the UACs at like 5% but then add an additional 5% for each additional UAC equipped. You could then add an additional 5% chance to jam for each additional round beyond the normal. We don't have designated ammo bins for each weapon so we have to assume that each weapon draws from the same ammo bins. Therefore, each time you fire your UACs, you're drawing ammo from the same location through the same feed processes which would add to your chances of jamming. That makes it so that using a single UAC is acceptable without being completely horrible while also making multiple UACs dangerous without allowing macros to circumvent the intended jamming hinderance.

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 January 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

I could get behind that completely.

I'm sure the actual numbers could, should, and would have to be tweaked but I just think any time you use strictly an RNG to balance something like this it leads to inconsistencies in short-term (which lets face it all battles are in this game as there's nothing outside of the match except the next match) cases. So you get the player ticked off because every time they go to shoot it 6 matches in a row it jams.

Long-term it usually evens out but it doesn't change the fact that a player has a weapon that is rendered useless for 6 matches in a row (I've actually witnessed that happen btw, not just a hypothetical)

Trauglodyte, on 07 January 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

I'd also like to see, when equipped, the UACs and LBs actually listed twice in weapons portion of the HUD. That way, you could have one group assigned to normal fire and scatter shot and nother group set to burst fire and slug. It would definitely be bulky depending on the build, but it would allow for everyone to play their weapons as they so choose.

TO me that's a different issue with ammo types. I think eventually we'll get those options but you'll only have one or the other or there will have to be a mechanic that allows and allots time to switching out an ammo bin mid-fight. So if you loaded up a ton of slugs and a ton of buckshot for the LBX you couldn't just fire the buck then immediately fire a slug with no delay on the next shot.

[Nastyogre]

Corbon Zackery, on 07 January 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Probably because under the current rules people are creating macro's so that the gun does not jam after 3 or 4 shots.

The Jam percentage is to high for computer based games since a computer will always roll above avg.

Computers roll above average? Do we honestly think that they can't manage a 1 in 4 chance? There is no magic "PC's are different" Yes, I know about the RNG in PC's not being truly random, etc etc, But random enough.

The macros allow for people to max the rate so it won't jam, but frankly just take a regular ac 5 then since they have the same recycle rate.

UAC are for taping at range and then when you need it a chance for a hammerdown burst.