38 replies to this topic

[Mad Pilot MkIV]

I just started to play a little bit more than a week ago and with the cadet bonus and premium i mastered the Shadow Hawk which was a bit of a roller-coaster ride, until i found the loudouts which works the best for me. So i started to look after a new mech, which is little heavier and i stumpled upon a few Dragon videos. And that speed is insane. Looked up a couple of way of fitting them

1C http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2f44638761cf91a
1N http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fab2b9b2ef546b0
5N http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc161825db47c53

And i like the looks of those. For my newbish eyes it seems like an upgrade from the SH. It has more speed, more armor and about the same if not higher DPS (speaking of DPS - why is the firepower aka salvo damage is the only stat the game shows for you, i find it dumb). The downside is the arm mounted guns and the beer belly CT. But the Shadow Hawk is freaking huge. The damn thing is as high as an Awesome highest point: the shoulder armor.

Excited by my "discovery" i checked the forums. And most of what i read was that how bad is this thing . Is it really? Should i just stand in the line with the others to pick up a Jägermeistermech? I mean it looks amazing, like the big brother of the trial Blackjack which i liked a lot and made me choose my first mech a medium.

So tell me is the Dragon a viable option fitted as a skirmisher?

[cleghorn6]

That's quite a bit of engine you've got in there.

I've Elited 3 Dragons and I quite liked them, contrary to the amount of hate you'll see around here. I found that if you're moving fast enough (and you certainly are with those builds) the big CT isn't THAT big of a deal (from memory I was using a 300XL).

It's very reminiscent of piloting a medium, if you go toe to toe with something, you'll lose and probably look foolish. If you use it properly, as with many hated 'mech designs, it works pretty well.

My fav was the 1C with a Gauss, 3ML, 1LPL and a 300XL. Ping with the Gauss, when someone thinks they're sneaking up on the sniper, melt their face with the lazorz.

[Tahuti]

Aff, it is a perfect skirmisher. I had lots of fun on the dragon. It does very poorly at a brawl so you have to keep range and be mobile to fully use it capabilities.

Try the 1 N version using 2xAC5. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d3c579f449cf916
You got the 5N right, but you'll need more ammo. 600 rounds at least.

[Sephlock]

Yes, and in fact the Dragon was designed to replace the Shadow Hawk (HAH!).

However, once weight limits hit, expect people to HATE you.

[Wintersdark]

Viable yes, optimal no.

Height is irrelevant. Nobody misses heavies and such by firing over them, and the cover issue is a wash. Taller mechs can fire Hugh mounted weapons over taller terrain, shorter mechs can hide completely behind shorter terrain. But when the chips are down, in a fight height doesn't really matter.

What DOES matter is width. Narrow mechs are harder to hit than wide ones. And the dragon is wide, very wide. Worse, it can't present a narrower profile by twisting lime, say, the Awesome because it's long as well as wide.

I love dragons, don't get me wrong. My Flame is my baby. But Dragons have always been and remain the worst heavies specifically because of their profile.

Also, wide arm mounted weapons are also a disadvantage with regards to convergence - particularly when firing at perpendicularly moving narrow targets. It becomes literally impossible to hit them in some circumstances, because you need to lead them... But when your crosshairs move off their target, your arms reaim to converge on whatever is now under your crosshairs. This movement makes a window where you are literally unable to hit.

Even if that doesn't make it impossible to hit your target (that's generally only applicable to fast moving very narrow mechs like the Spider) it does mean that already narrower mechs get efectively even narrower yet.

[Mad Pilot MkIV]

cleghorn6, on 07 January 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

That's quite a bit of engine you've got in there.

I've Elited 3 Dragons and I quite liked them, contrary to the amount of hate you'll see around here. I found that if you're moving fast enough (and you certainly are with those builds) the big CT isn't THAT big of a deal (from memory I was using a 300XL).

It's very reminiscent of piloting a medium, if you go toe to toe with something, you'll lose and probably look foolish. If you use it properly, as with many hated 'mech designs, it works pretty well.

My fav was the 1C with a Gauss, 3ML, 1LPL and a 300XL. Ping with the Gauss, when someone thinks they're sneaking up on the sniper, melt their face with the lazorz.

That's what i'm hoping for that he speed will save me . I have a XL360 and a XL300 engine already from my Shadow Hawk builds. I don't like the Gauss mechanics. They should just have a charge up delay, but not this mini-game where you have to hold and let go of the trigger in the right time just to fire the damn thing. A half second firing delay would work for me, but not the current way.

Tahuti, on 07 January 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

Aff, it is a perfect skirmisher. I had lots of fun on the dragon. It does very poorly at a brawl so you have to keep range and be mobile to fully use it capabilities.

Try the 1 N version using 2xAC5. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d3c579f449cf916
You got the 5N right, but you'll need more ammo. 600 rounds at least.

I use the almost exact same arsenal on my 5M (no LRMs). I figured i need 6 tons of ammo stay in game in a longer match. And yea i'm a bit sceptic about that triple AC2 fit on the 5N, because when i tried that on my SH that damn thing was just way too hot. But those are just templates for me, i usually edit them after trial and error.

Edited by Mad Pilot MkIV, 07 January 2014 - 02:17 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Interesting builds, but they all need more ammo and maybe less engine by a smidge. The shadowhawks are perfectly viable builds outside of ammo issues. I've tried some of them that you did but aren't my play style.

Major warning is this: Those XL engines will get you killed quick if you're not doing support roles such as LRM or long range sniping. Lord knows how much I love killing dragons with my LRMs because of those big noses. That DGN c1 needs about x2-3 the ammo you got in there to sustain you in a fight. and your AMS has no bullets. Your SRMs have only 16 full shots... ain't enough for any serious battle.

[Modo44]

You can kit out the 1C with an XL350 engine to use AC10+4xML. The same build works with the stock STD300, so you can test it relatively cheaply. You want to stick to multiplies of 25 as those give you more engine heatsink slots. In general, the Flame and the 1C are the most useful variants. The others are too dependant on ballistics, which generates weight and space issues (Ferro matters on the Dragon).

[Latorque]

The Flame ist my very favourite mech, and from my gaming experience, the "fast 60s" play like nothing else. The 300XL proved to slow for my taste; so i crammed an 350XL in there. Play it as an elited fast skirmisher / flanker; and you can amount perverse amounts of damage - this is one of the mechs which goes extremely well with the LB-10-X since the Gauss is out of the picture. Admittedly; in bad matches it feels as if you're blasting confetti at the enemy; in others you're wielding god's flaming fist of wrath.

Interestingly enough; i found that the playing style is most akin to a heavily armed-light. Side Torsos are less of a problem; your CT takes the brunt of the fire thanks to the enormous snout; and a Dragon without an XL is heresy i say

This is the build; though i guess it's not as exotic as i thought : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ccadceae28ed2e9

You can replicate it with the 1C, hardpoint layout is different though.

[Mycrus]

Dragon is a litmus test on how good a pilot you think you are....

Bad pilots will hate it and blame the mech...

[cleghorn6]

Mad Pilot MkIV, on 07 January 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

That's what i'm hoping for that he speed will save me . I have a XL360 and a XL300 engine already from my Shadow Hawk builds. I don't like the Gauss mechanics. They should just have a charge up delay, but not this mini-game where you have to hold and let go of the trigger in the right time just to fire the damn thing. A half second firing delay would work for me, but not the current way.

To be fair I did my Dragoning before the new mechanic came in. Now, I'd be tempted to agree with you.

Latorque, on 07 January 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

The Flame ist my very favourite mech, and from my gaming experience, the "fast 60s" play like nothing else. The 300XL proved to slow for my taste; so i crammed an 350XL in there. Play it as an elited fast skirmisher / flanker; and you can amount perverse amounts of damage - this is one of the mechs which goes extremely well with the LB-10-X since the Gauss is out of the picture. Admittedly; in bad matches it feels as if you're blasting confetti at the enemy; in others you're wielding god's flaming fist of wrath.

I built my Flame with 4LL but it just didn't have any ... zing.

I may have to rebuild and bring it out again.

[Sephlock]

Wintersdark, on 07 January 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Viable yes, optimal no.

Height is irrelevant. Nobody misses heavies and such by firing over them, and the cover issue is a wash. Taller mechs can fire Hugh mounted weapons over taller terrain, shorter mechs can hide completely behind shorter terrain. But when the chips are down, in a fight height doesn't really matter.

What DOES matter is width. Narrow mechs are harder to hit than wide ones. And the dragon is wide, very wide. Worse, it can't present a narrower profile by twisting lime, say, the Awesome because it's long as well as wide.

I love dragons, don't get me wrong. My Flame is my baby. But Dragons have always been and remain the worst heavies specifically because of their profile.

Also, wide arm mounted weapons are also a disadvantage with regards to convergence - particularly when firing at perpendicularly moving narrow targets. It becomes literally impossible to hit them in some circumstances, because you need to lead them... But when your crosshairs move off their target, your arms reaim to converge on whatever is now under your crosshairs. This movement makes a window where you are literally unable to hit.

Even if that doesn't make it impossible to hit your target (that's generally only applicable to fast moving very narrow mechs like the Spider) it does mean that already narrower mechs get efectively even narrower yet.

You guys with your patriarchal body image standards. You're going to give the Dragon mechorexia...

[Latorque]

cleghorn6, on 07 January 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

I built my Flame with 4LL but it just didn't have any ... zing.

i hear you; i didn't like it either. Constant overheating; and the energy mounts in the low-and wide mounting arms don't make this mech sniper material. In my experience; the minimap ist the key - if you see any opportunity, rush in from behind and start blasting away with those four MLas - if the enemy has lost his armor; the duel is yours thanks to the critical damage bonus of the LB-X. Canyon netword is the map of maps for this - at least for me - and you don't even need jumpjets.

In bad cases; i rushed too far ahead with a team too overcautious to push or i overestimated my own ability to brawl on my own. 2 or 3 enemy mechs on a dragon are bad news; durability is not its forté - although not a particular weakness either; but there are few things in this game as satisfying as a lone Highlander desperately trying to turn with you. And 103.4 KPH and a LB-X is a splendid spider remedy too!

[LiGhtningFF13]

You don't have to buy anything dude, just collect random cbills. By the way the dragon is not that expensive. Just be patient my dear!

Edited by LiGhtning90, 07 January 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[Modo44]

LiGhtning90, on 07 January 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

By the way the dragon is not that expensive.

Actually, it is one of the most expensive mechs. It basically requires DHS, ES, FF, and a big XL on top of the stock price to be in a good place. Fully tricked-out, it tops many assault mechs.

[Mad Pilot MkIV]

LiGhtning90, on 07 January 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

You don't have to buy anything dude, just collect random cbills. By the way the dragon is not that expensive. Just be patient my dear!

Thanks grandma, but i never said i have to nor that i dont have the credit for the Dragon. I was just asked the opinion of the experienced players, is it a good mech or just a credit sink.

edit: also thanks everyone for the help

edit2:

Modo44, on 07 January 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

Actually, it is one of the most expensive mechs. It basically requires DHS, ES, FF, and a big XL on top of the stock price to be in a good place. Fully tricked-out, it tops many assault mechs.

My SH loadouts cost around 12-14 mill and i have the engines i want to use.

Edited by Mad Pilot MkIV, 07 January 2014 - 04:34 AM.

[Denolven]

By now you probably got it. The Dragon itself is ok. Not Awesome (off course not, heh), not crappy either. It's certainly hard to master, wich results in many people hating it (too difficult). But if you master it, it's just as valuable as any other mech.

If you can manage the lack of jump jets and are not afraid of a high difficulty setting, go for it. The 1N is still my most played Mech - I loved it back in the day when I didn't know how to play mediums. Now I sold it because a dragon that can't fly is not for me - today I'm one of the biggest Trebuchet fans you'll find out there (5J).
But if there was a JJ variant and the flamer wouldn't suck, oh man I would get it back instantly!

Edited by Denolven, 07 January 2014 - 04:51 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Its a decent mech. I really enjoy them but they have a few problems that will put them at a disadvantage quite often.

The strength of the dragon lies in being able to mount some nice weaponry, having pretty good hard point placement (not including the 5N), and being fast. On the other hand the Dragon's hitboxes are a serious handicap. Because of the hitboxes brawling with fresh mechs is out of the question.

Here are a few more tips:

-Forget the missile hard point unless its 2xSSRM2 on the 1N and even then there are probably better options.
-Favor long range weapons in the high mounted point in the left torso.
-Use your speed to control when and how you engage.
-Never, ever, ever fight fair in a Dragon.

[Verrue]

Welcome to the cult of the Dragon ;-)

You will love the beast once you master it, and curse it if you are found wanting...


Dragon can be played like heavy armed scout mech/flanker/light hunter/sniper

Depend on the setup.


I use a Flame, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d0a46f5835c7518

with a 350 xl , no need ams, you run a zipping 105 Kph with speed tweak, most missile wont hit you

You can use a lbx or an AC 10. the choice you make will define your role:
ac/10 = constant 10 dmg
Lbx = good vs light, armorless oppponent, useless vs armor, spread if too far

SR4 ? why ? weel, in a dragon you dont want to shutdown due to heat, if that happen , pray that your armor will hold because they will pound you like pinata in no time. A dragon is always mobile. you stop , you get hit.

the SR4 now...

purpose of multiple weapon system is checking your heat lvl, firing 4 med las will do a neat 20 dmg but fire that 3 time in a row , and you got a fair amount of heat. the AC 10 is a good heat ratio, so you can pump nearly non-stop ac10 shell.

the problem i was encountering was: ok you open up blasting laser and shell, then you found yourself doing a circle battle , but heat was already up to 80 %. pumping ac 10 is nice , but if you blast with the laser , overheat. That annoying spider/jenner is right in front of you between your arm, what will hit it without going immobile due to heat ? SR missiles !

All Dragon have center torso launch pod missile. Plus, SRM wont build much heat and hit for decent dmg (2 each).

On another note , check the armor value on my build, you have to put more in front in the shoulder and center torso (we got big one ).

enjoy !

Edited by Verrue, 09 January 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[Dan Nashe]

What ever became of the quickdraw? Same weight, same speed, can jump, and lighter but hotter hard points, no fat stomach you can shoot from the side? Even rarer than dragons?

(I'm not saying they Are better, but curious why not mentioned?)