46 replies to this topic

[Lootee]

You mean like a Triple Strength Myomer axe to the head for 40 damage? Fat chance of that ever making it into the game before real life 3050 AD.

The AC/20 is supposed to be that short ranged powerhouse that is leaves its user vulnerable past 270m but thanks to this game's FUBARd extended range system it's actually more of an AC/20PPCERLARGELASER.

At 270m it does 20 dmg. No arguments here, that's what it's supposed to do.
At 450m it does 13 dmg more than an AC/10 at its optimal range, when it's supposed to deal 0.
At 540m it does 10 dmg. Same as a PPC or LB10x slug. At a range where it is supposed to deal 0.
At 600m it does 8 dmg. Same as an ER Large Laser. When it should do 0.

Lots of other ppl have pointed this out for a long time. The way ballistics work the AC/20 usurps the role of no fewer than 3 other weapons at ranges where IT SHOULD BE INEFFECTIVE.

This game is a soup sandwich and will only get more broken when all the metatwinks swap out their PPC + AC/20 Highlanders for poptarting ERPPC + Ultra AC/20 Gladiators. The tradeoff is all advantages and no cons. 70pt alpha strikes. 5 more tons to play with. 64kph stock engine. XL engines that don't blow up when a side torso is destroyed. The UAC/20 shells get CASE for free for 0 crits and 0 tons. It can have more JJ than the HGN. It can cram more 2 slot DHS into every nook and cranny. MASC to run at 86kph. Yeah the upcoming train wreck will be epic to watch.

[Stardancer01]

When snipers start complaining how good pulse lasers are, they’re working right.

[kesuga7]

pleaaasee a lb 20x


I think the 'awesome' your craving for was the splatkat back in closed beta that did 90 damage in one alpha


*nostaglia vision* ignores closed beta bugs*
back in the good old closed beta days we had slugging with sniping and every brawler weapon was great so if we got close enough to a sniper they got ****** and it felt balanced

Edited by kesuga7, 08 January 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Varent]

Ultra AC20 (Clan)

Winter is Coming....

[stjobe]

Mister Blastman, on 08 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

SRMs were amazing up close over a year ago.

Yep, but that was because each missile did up to about 12 damage due to that splash damage bug.
Hit detection probably was as spotty back then as it is now, but with that kind of damage nobody noticed.

You just felt they did great damage, and once in a while a 'mech spontaneously exploded when you hit it with your SRMs (that's when all the missiles actually hit which would make a SRM-6 do about 70 damage - light 'mechs just vaporized).

Don't get me wrong, I want SRMs to be viable as much as anyone, but let's not paint the past in all too rosy tones - it was actually as bad - or even worse in many respects - back then.

[Asmudius Heng]

It has all been said.

SRMs, Pulse lasers, LBX ... These should be the close in danger weapons alongside the only other one being the AC20

The risk/reward for short range brawling is entirly on the risk side with very little reward.

SRMs need to actually have hit detection then they can be tweaked number wise
LBX needs to have better damage per pellet then the spread could. Be tweaked based on testing
Pulse lasers ... I dunno need everything better for thier weight by a small margin.

I like long range fighting, but there should be a major fear from dedicated in fighters .... Right now people brawl with sniper weapons and do pretty well with it.

stjobe, on 08 January 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yep, but that was because each missile did up to about 12 damage due to that splash damage bug.
Hit detection probably was as spotty back then as it is now, but with that kind of damage nobody noticed.

You just felt they did great damage, and once in a while a 'mech spontaneously exploded when you hit it with your SRMs (that's when all the missiles actually hit which would make a SRM-6 do about 70 damage - light 'mechs just vaporized).

Don't get me wrong, I want SRMs to be viable as much as anyone, but let's not paint the past in all too rosy tones - it was actually as bad - or even worse in many respects - back then.

Exactly, it's about net code not about numbers. Gotta fix the net code before you can balance. Look at PPCs, they were buffed to viability with bad netcode, and when that was fixed they became godly. You cannot buff damage to account for random hit detection misses and call the average damage working as intended.

That being said ...I would love to hear an update about SRMs from the devs in regards to how much it is being effected by net code issues

[Lord Perversor]

stjobe, on 08 January 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yep, but that was because each missile did up to about 12 damage due to that splash damage bug.
Hit detection probably was as spotty back then as it is now, but with that kind of damage nobody noticed.

You just felt they did great damage, and once in a while a 'mech spontaneously exploded when you hit it with your SRMs (that's when all the missiles actually hit which would make a SRM-6 do about 70 damage - light 'mechs just vaporized).

Don't get me wrong, I want SRMs to be viable as much as anyone, but let's not paint the past in all too rosy tones - it was actually as bad - or even worse in many respects - back then.

Heh i remember those times, 2x Srm 6 (without artemis) on my Atlas D often granted a pleasant 5x component destruction + kill on any poor Jenner/commando who dare to stop for a mere second in front of me.

[Mister Blastman]

stjobe, on 08 January 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yep, but that was because each missile did up to about 12 damage due to that splash damage bug.
Hit detection probably was as spotty back then as it is now, but with that kind of damage nobody noticed.

You just felt they did great damage, and once in a while a 'mech spontaneously exploded when you hit it with your SRMs (that's when all the missiles actually hit which would make a SRM-6 do about 70 damage - light 'mechs just vaporized).

Don't get me wrong, I want SRMs to be viable as much as anyone, but let's not paint the past in all too rosy tones - it was actually as bad - or even worse in many respects - back then.

Your favorite mech, the commando, was my favorite target with SRMs. I had many lols when they took a facefull of my SRM 6 or 2x SRM 4s from my Dragon and exploded in one hit. Oh those were happy times.

[Deathlike]

stjobe, on 08 January 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yep, but that was because each missile did up to about 12 damage due to that splash damage bug.
Hit detection probably was as spotty back then as it is now, but with that kind of damage nobody noticed.

You just felt they did great damage, and once in a while a 'mech spontaneously exploded when you hit it with your SRMs (that's when all the missiles actually hit which would make a SRM-6 do about 70 damage - light 'mechs just vaporized).

Don't get me wrong, I want SRMs to be viable as much as anyone, but let's not paint the past in all too rosy tones - it was actually as bad - or even worse in many respects - back then.

As much as SRMs were broken before (due to terribad splash damage calculations), it was more fun then. Cent-bombs were cool and the Splatcat was amusing.

I dunno, would you prefer a continuation of the Splatcat meta or the super extended version of the PPC meta?

Bringing back to Splatcat would at least make the A1 lots more enjoyable.

[stjobe]

Mister Blastman, on 08 January 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Your favorite mech, the commando, was my favorite target with SRMs. I had many lols when they took a facefull of my SRM 6 or 2x SRM 4s from my Dragon and exploded in one hit. Oh those were happy times.

On the other side of that coin, my Commandos had SRMs too back then, and I gave as good as I got

Deathlike, on 08 January 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

I dunno, would you prefer a continuation of the Splatcat meta or the super extended version of the PPC meta?

None of the above, if I had a choice. SplatCats were the reason I put LLs on my Commandos.

Edited by stjobe, 08 January 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

As much as SRMs were broken before (due to terribad splash damage calculations), it was more fun then. Cent-bombs were cool and the Splatcat was amusing.

I dunno, would you prefer a continuation of the Splatcat meta or the super extended version of the PPC meta?

Bringing back to Splatcat would at least make the A1 lots more enjoyable.

Back during the Splatcat meta, the overall meta was mostly short range brawling. Long-range weapons weren't working very well back then, particularly PPCs. Now that we have function ranged weapons, it would be a lot harder to Splatapults to regain dominance even with splash damage restored to its former broken glory.

[Trauglodyte]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Used to be an AC20 fit that description... but people were afraid of dying to a BFG so we now have Tim Conway's old man for AC20 projectiles!

You are SO old

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 08 January 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Back during the Splatcat meta, the overall meta was mostly short range brawling. Long-range weapons weren't working very well back then, particularly PPCs. Now that we have function ranged weapons, it would be a lot harder to Splatapults to regain dominance even with splash damage restored to its former broken glory.

It would be tons more fun to die trying. If you've already taken the most you can out of the Streakcat or Jagerbomb, the Splatcat isn't too bad.

stjobe, on 08 January 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

None of the above, if I had a choice. SplatCats were the reason I put LLs on my Commandos.

I stopped bothering to do that (although, I gave it a go with the 1B for a while). I like the speed more to make up the ground (I mean, that's the whole point of the light mech generally). If I had to strictly use an LL on them, I'd get into bad situations (I like using my arms for shields, thus something has to suffer because of it).

It was great fun feasting on the Lolcust...

[Khobai]

Quote

So you want SRM's to be totally useless vs. ECM as well?

Well ECM needs to change anyway. Its way too strong for 1.5 tons.

The point is all missiles should use the same game mechanics. Missiles and ballistics should feel like different types of weapons.

Quote

Also, random SRMs being random-miss is...well, irritating as heck.

Remember though, equipping artemis would decrease the miss chance considerably. The idea is that artemis on SRMs would actually do what its supposed to...

The whole point of missiles is that they should be guided, especially SRMs. The only unguided missiles in the battletech universe are MRMs.

Edited by Khobai, 08 January 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

I would actually say that, with SRMs, if you allowed them like 25% of the turning capabilities of Streaks and LRMs and made it so that they followed and converged where your reticle is, then you're adding in a ton of capability into the weapon with a lot of downsides based on the users. It seems like, aside from coding problems, exactly what they wanted out of the Gauss Rifle.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 08 January 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

The whole point of missiles is that they should be guided, especially SRMs. The only unguided missiles in the battletech universe are MRMs.

And Rocket Launchers.

[Varent]

please dont nerf srm... SRM are great as they are.. .they do not need to be changed.... if you dont like them or lack the skill to use them effectively then dont use them. Dont make them lock on and ruin them for the rest of us.

[Khobai]

Quote

And Rocket Launchers.

Jihad era doesnt count though. Thats like starwars episode 1-3.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

reduce pulse laser duration to make them nearly pinpoint and reduce range, making them deadly at close range and an actual trade off of pilot skill with normal lasers

[Tahribator]

As others have already said, the answer is better SRM's and more buffs to pulse lasers. One stopgap measure would be to up the SRM damage to 2.2-2.3, lower pulse laser ranges quite a bit but buff their damage a bit without touching their heat.

So what you'd have is facemelting mechs that run hot at close range and bringing it to snipers, while pretty much being an easy kill outside brawling ranges.