34 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

Ok, so i have been playing almost a year now.. But since this game went 12v12, my death rate has doubled.. Part of it has been lag related i'm sure, which in turn has kept me from playing as much. But playing a few times today, it seems like the game is a bit more optimized and i'm not having such an issue. Not to mention my new rig will be finished some time this week, and i should no longer have that issue all, which leads me to wan't to try something new.

I have played HBK's and Cat's as my main mechs. I'm just sick of losing my hump every single match i die or getting CT cored on my cat.. I really wan't to try something that is a bit more hit box friendly meaning, Every match losing the exact same way has gotten extremely old. I'm sure my play has something to do with it.. But having a barn door to hit can't help.

People have said, give the shadow cat's a try, which they do seem some what appealing, But perhaps it is time i try a heavy to get to elite. (my cat's i only own 2, with missiles in such flux i have avoided buying a third). Maybe a jager Or catphract? Though being an old school mech warrior player, the idea of the Thunderbolt, aka thor, and being a heavier armored HBK might work.. I did like that missile version which seamed like a beefy 4SP, or perhaps a ballistic model Though i have to wonder if they have the issue i'm trying to avoid.

I just wan't something that has a fighting chance of dying in another way.... dying from losing left torso for once.. Or maybe be legged!, even a head shot might be nice after 300 deaths by RT... (and no that is not an exaggeration) (edit, had to remove 125 deaths in the 4SP, forgot, those were not all RT).. But being a short ranged mech, that one get's really old being Out ranged, especially on large maps like alpine.



Thoughts? I have some MC saved, and it might be time to splurge and buy a mech i don't think i can force myself to grind any more money in either of these mechs...

Edited by JC Daxion, 08 January 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[AaronWolf]

Well, I am somewhat biased-due to me favoring light mechs.

But I would say try something light; like a Death Knell, Raven 3L/4X or Jenner. They are fast and quick on the field. Using cover is also a big big plus for them, since they are low profile, can hide behind stuff better. Especially Atlai!

It would be somewhat a big change from your HBK, as its a bit slower and kind of a "Shoot my shoulder first" kind of mech. As you have noticed.

If you want something heavier, I really recommend a Jager/Victor.

[Lucky Noob]

Hmm, okay seems you need some Training in Torso twisting, because thats what keeps Cats and Hunchis alive mainly.

I know many think they doing but when you realy look they dont do it when its important. Its hard to learn but very valuable.

For an more Friendly Mech hmm, something fast like an Blackjack may work for you quite well.

Or you go for the real Big Guys like Highlander.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

For maximum hitbox protection, you want a Spider or Centurion. Even after their respective adjustments, they're still inordinately hard to put down.

The Shadowhawk is a good chassis - big engines help with torso twisting, and they can also take a fair amount of punishment before dying. I don't own a Thunderbolt, but they seem pretty solid all-rounders.

HBKs and CTPs have always been pretty easy to neuter/kill,because they are either nice big targets generally, like the Catapult, or where you need to aim is abundantly obvious, as with the Hunchback. Good to see you didn't give up, though!

[Turist0AT]

Dude, you want Stalker, they are durable.

Edited by Turist0AT, 08 January 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[luxebo]

I've played both the Hunchies (mastered) and Catapults (from a friend). If you have Hunchie with XL, that would be a large problem. Also, if you don't make the armor for the hunch split pretty heavily, so something like 46 front 2 rear so the hunch can survive, though I almost never lose my hunch due to good torso twisting. Catapults should be using long range weapons (except maybe a couple exceptions, boomcat, splatcat, streakcat, etc) and have XL if possible, which then should easily allow you to kill lots. Plus, work on locks and how to play the Catapult.

To answer your question on hitboxes, I'd say the following are stronger and more durable:
Spider for durability, Jenner and Raven for size. Locust and Commando aren't as durable, while Cicada although it isn't a light, it's still pretty large for a light.
Centurion for durablility, Shadow Hawk for size. Treb, Kintaro, and Hunchie have easy to hit parts, Blackjack and Cicada are too light.
Thunderbolt and Cataphract for durability, I'd say Orions and Jagers can be pretty durable as well. Quickdraws, Dragons, and Catapults are pretty large.
Stalkers, Atlas, Battlemasters, Highlanders, and Victors are all very durable, though I'd say Atlas, Stalkers, and Victors have the best kind of hitboxes. Awesomes are not as durable.

[Junkman7mgte]

I would definitely have to agree with taking a look at your playstyle a bit. I have my HB's elited, and until I got "better" at torso twisting, I'd lose my hunch very quickly, every match. That said .... I really love my Cents and Cataphracts. They seem, to be a bit more forgiving to those of us that need a little "help", lol.

[JC Daxion]

Well it isn't that i lose my hunch early every time, It is more, that is just the way it always happens.. I do try to torso twist, and i think i am doing a bit better with it but there is always room for improvement. I do play pug's basically, with no voice, you know how those can go..


I think another part of it, is maybe i just need something that is a different play style.. I do own a few other mechs, but have barely played them much. A raven 3L, Dragon 5n, and a Atlas DDC.. The raven i really like but pug's i just find my roll really limited at least with my ability . The dragon has kinda the same issue, giant center.. and the atlas, I only played it 3 times, and have completely sucked in it.. no damage, and dead each time.. Whoops.. Perhaps that is all part of just learning a new mech.. But i really would like to try something that is different, that doesn't have a whole new play-style and feeling lost.

But honestly till the 12 v 12, I was actually doing pretty good in the HBK, but since then it seams like i have no chance. I can't believe how often i lose a weapon in just a single shot even after all these weapon nerfs. I thought armor would finally protect against this, but just doesn't seam like that is the case.. (though i swear i never can take down anyone's weapon in a single shot, even with an AC-20 at point blank, so no clue how this works, or why) I defiantly do better on the brawl maps, Like Frozen city, and River city, my stats are double what they are on most other maps. I guess i like the anti snipe maps.. So that said, i get sniped on my hump, then i am just a 2 laser mech for the game..

I think i need to narrow it down... Jager, cataphract, or the new thunderbolt.. I love ballistics..

I was playing around with Dual AC-2's, with a machine gun, and 2 lasers in my HBK-4G. Even though it was down on fire power compaired to my HBK-4sp, which is horrendous if i'm on a map that no one want's to brawl and i feel totally useless, Or the AC-20, 3ML version, which again i love, i am just getting tired of being hunchless. But i must say, that dual AC-2/machine gun mech is fun.. It feels much more support, but shredding armor, and taking down wounded targets at range was fun..

Do any of the above have builds that are similar yet more effective? To me looking from the outside, the thunder bolts seem most like the hbk in load outs.. the Jagers, seem to mix energy/missiles/ballistics over the variants, and the cataphract seems like the heavy gunner, perhaps the most durable?

some weapon stats, 68% AC-20, 77% ML, 73% M pulse.. SRM's 50%.. LRM's i can't use worth a {Scrap} are down around 20%.. Most other weapons are in the 50% range.. the smaller weapons i think partly because i fire when out of range, and the long range weapons i take more chances, like the UAC-5, or the AC-2

I know it won't be magic, but i just wan't something different, that can fit my style and what i do so i don't feel like i wasted money, on a mech i just don't play

Edited by JC Daxion, 09 January 2014 - 02:40 AM.

[John MatriX82]

Hitbox friendly mechs are those that combine slim shapes, and when possible, high-mounted hardpoints. Not the Awesomes for sure

Shadowhawk is the to-go medium (also the BJ to an extent, Cent is another good choice), spider for the ligths; the CTF (3D above anything else, Ilya to an extent) is imho the to-go heavy. Jagers mostly need xls and those sides pop off in no time, Catapult is huge as the QKDs, TBs have poor hardpoints.

For assaults Landers, Victors, Stalkers (this can't tank damage with arms like the others but it's rather slim and you can expose a little while firing arm-mounted weapons).

Edited by John MatriX82, 09 January 2014 - 02:45 AM.

[Lucky Noob]

My Bro is an Master with 2 AC 2s, he even use em in Competive 12 Man Drop in our Merc Corp, and hell hes an Beast.

His main Role is suspression Fire so that Enemys dont jumpsnipe and cant obtain important Locations, and ofc killing like hell.

[Itsalrightwithme]

Since you mentioned you only have 2 CPLTs and thus don't have Elite Skills on those, do you have Elite Skills on your HBK yet? Generally, Elite Skills make a world of difference, so for the HBK I would focus on getting them no matter what.

The problem of getting you hunch blown off is a classical HBK problem, but it can also happen to many builds. I hope you are aware that most of the hunch counts as FRONT RT, so you can put even more armor towards the front RT than the rear RT. Like others already pointed out, the solution is to learn to torso-twist and protect your hunch. It is a very useful skill.

You can either sidestep having to learn this skill altogether and go to a SHD with XL which tends to lend itself to having weapons on all sides, or learn this skill either using a HBK or a SHD with asymmetric build (such as 2D2 with STD engine, AC20, ERPPC).

[thejadefalcon]

Braddack, on 08 January 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

For an more Friendly Mech hmm, something fast like an Blackjack may work for you quite well.

That feeling when your Blackjack barely tops 65 and other people call it a fast mech... what the hell did I do...

Edited by thejadefalcon, 09 January 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[Buckminster]

I really like my Shadow Hawks - they've been fairly versatile and a lot of fun, but frankly they're very similar to the Hunchies, just 5 tons heavier and with jump jets. They still have that shoulder hump (although not as big) which is where your main weapons end up.

I think I'll second the Blackjacks. I've never used them, but when I'm playing and come across them, they always seem so small compared to other mechs. They also have those high skinny arms for weapon mounts, which makes them a lot harder to target (unlike the arms of say the Centurion) but still let you have some AC/20 fun. And again - jump jets! Seriously, after playing my Hawks for awhile, it'll be a huge adjustment to go to a non-jumping mech.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

thejadefalcon, on 09 January 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

That feeling when your Blackjack barely tops 65 and other people call it a fast mech... what the hell did I do...

Yeah, mine topped out at 79 after speed tweak with an XL. It is possible to achieve higher speeds, but your loadouts become limited/boring.

[IronEricP]

You mentioned wanting to be in a mech that can shrug off body parts, limbs and legs before dying?

Best answer i've seen just might be the Quickdraw.

Now, i do know that the Quick IS a big target, however, it has some of the best limb positioning in the game with relatively small side torsos.

With some torso twisting, I have kept my Quickdraws fighting till they are down both arms, a leg, around 25% total health, and still have half or more of their firepower. WITH AN XL ENGINE. Well timed turns and jumps mean I lose legs as often as torso sections, so you can't skimp on armor anywhere (except for my old, sadly obsolete build with 4 PPCs). Sticking with a standard engine makes it even tougher.

As an added bonus, its payload can be set up similarly to the Hunch-SP you are already familiar with, meaning if you wanted you could focus on its movement profile without needing to learn a completely different weapon set, you can.

As to other mechs, the Shadowhawk has some of the same benefits. Jagers are good killers, but if you think the cats torso is big... jager side torsos can be hit from nearly as many angles. The Awesomes hit boxes just got improved a bit, but it guns are still low slung and it requires LOTS of torso twisting if you ever want to brawl in it. Lights are tough to hit, especially the spider. Careful with the jenner, its fast and deadly but its nose is focused just like the cat; don't stand still for a second. Phracts can be tough, but I recommend against xls because of their shoulder config (not as easy to hit as a jagers mind you). Recently tried the T-bolt; fun, but VERY funky, big wide torsos.

And for the love of GOD... if you don't want fast ct cores, stay away from the Dragon Recently improved, but still, look at that snoz.

Hope this helps.

[SpiralFace]

See, to me, I take it in stride.

Catapults are support mechs. If you are dueling 1v1 with them, you are going to loose, but if you are hanging in the back using those high weapon mounts to support other mechs, then I've done just fine with them.

Hunchbacks are the same way. They are not line mechs, but heavy weapon boats. Taking sustained fire on them is not going to end well for you, but they tote more weapon slots then many other mechs of similar weight classes (and even above.) So you can really make them more offensively potent then other mechs, but you just have to try and minimize the amount of fire you take yourself.

Mech's are not a "one size fits all" kind of thing, some mechs due to their hitboxes are better at different roles then others.

I've found nothing wrong with the backs, or catapults, and have had much success with them, but they are NOT the kind of mechs built to be on the frontlines. Cats are almost pure support mechs and Hunchbacks are second line mechs. They can't take damage like other mechs, but they sure as hell can dish it out.

[Mechteric]

The thing is that any good opponent is going to do everything they can to take out your hunch on a hunchback, as thats exactly what I do whenever I am coming up against one. So whenever I pilot mine I have to keep that in my mind the whole time and figure out what I can do to mitigate that.

Torso twisting between shots is important, but so is not being way out in the front of a push, usually you wanna hang out with the big boys, the Atlases, Victors, Highlanders, Cataphracts and Orions. Basically anything thats going to be a bigger target than you. This doesn't mean you hang back hundreds of meters from them but rather you are right there with them, moving when they move and shooting at what they shoot at.

[JC Daxion]

You know, i do enjoy the look of the kintaro and quickdraw.. they also both look to have some interesting load out options.. They kinda remind me of larger versions of the Commando.. Something i always thought was cool..


Till i save enough, cause even with MC, i need money to outift the double's and what ever else i wanna swap. I am playing my 4SP, that one seams like the least Hunchie, of the HBK's (yes i have 3 to elites for those that have wondered)

I am trying a new build which in all honesty i am finding pretty cool.. 5 ML, (3 grouped one side, 2 the other) Along with a pair of streaks, BAP, AMS along with 6 extra double heat sinks.. (normally i was using SRM6's or 4's but the thing ran kinda hot) I am able to sustain fire with my ML's much more, my fast engine helps me get into position. And for hunting lights sweep the legs, cancel ECM with my bap, and streak um. Not sure why i did not ever try this before.. But i likey! (you guys got me all thinking while i was playing the 4G..)

Edited by JC Daxion, 09 January 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[Eaerie]

personally i would take a SHD-2D2 over a Kintaro especially if you are wanting something fast. There are just so many way to load out a SHD. Want something fast to hunt lights, you can do it and get JJ's to help you chase mech/escape easier. Want good fire support? again a SHD can mount great load outs with a ballistic slot to help out. And to top it off the JJ's allow for some good survivability by spreading damage over the whole mech.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

SHD's are generally a fantastic chassis. There's not a lot you can say against them except perhaps their scaling for their weight (but that's hardly a concern unique to the Shadowhawk).

But I still love my Kintaros... I play the -20 like a heavier CN9-AL, works a charm with a 300XL, ERLL, 2ML, 3SRM4. My -19 had a 63-point alpha, and ran at 106. The -18 is best used as a light hunter; fill it with SSRM's, a BAP, and the biggest XL you can afford.